Lets compare Courthouses!

[ShunNakamura]

After seeing TheLastOne's Monument thread I decided to try it with something that I think would be a bit less one sided. All of the Courthouse Unique Buildings seem to be pretty nifty/useful.

-Courthouse-
120 Cost
+2 Espionage Points
-50% Maintenance
Can turn 1 Citizen into Spy
Obtained with Code of Laws

-Sacrificial Altar-
Aztec Unique Building
90 Cost
+2 Espionage Points
-50% Maintenance
-50% Anger Duration from Sacrificing Population
Can turn 1 Citizen into Spy
Obtained with Code of Laws

-Rathaus-
Holy Roman Unique Building
120 Cost
+2 Espionage Points
-75% Maintenance
Can turn 1 Citizen into Spy
Obtained with Code of Laws

-Ziggurat-
Sumerian Unique Building
90 Cost
+2 Espionage Points
-50% Maintenance
Can turn 1 Citizen into Spy
Obtained with Priesthood
​

Since I don't whip much the Sacrificial Altar has less use to me than it would to others. Thus I can say the Ziggurat is better, for me, than the Sacrificial Altar.

Ziggurat is cheap and early. The Rathaus is better than even combining the Zulu Barracks with the Courthouse. I think I will go with the Ziggurat; it suits the Sumerian quite well I think.

 

[qwertz]

Rathaus is the best UB ever. Even if you don't go for domination or corporation spam, the extra gold is allways usefuel.

 

[obliterate]

The Rathaus is the best of the three. It excels at what the normal courthouse does whereas the other two provide secondary bonuses.

 

[Permanganate]

I concur - the Rathaus is by far the best Courthouse UB, and IMO the best UB overall. It gets even better lategame since it further reduces the cost of corporations. The Sacrificial Altar might sound good but the important whipping is done by the time you get it. The Ziggurat is useful - you can expand earlier without maintenance being a problem - but it's got nothing on the Rathaus.

 

[KMadCandy]

i almost never start wars early, pretty much only when i play as cyrus. for me early is "i don't know steel yet so i don't have cannon, war would not be safe." i don't know how you guys do it! so, i don't tend to get into the "egads my empire is too spread out whatever shall i do?" situations in the early game that i often see talked about here. i research or oracle CoL for the religion (and sometimes because i want to use caste), and i'd beeline for it even if courthouses didn't exist, i'm an oddball. so that definitely colors my thinking on how vital courthouses are, how much i need to rush for them, and which ones are better than others. for example, ziggurats wouldn't help me in any way other than getting spy points early, i don't typically have a pressing need courthouses ASAP for my economy so what tech they come with isn't a factor for me. so with that disclaimer:

i'm know the rathaus is actually better, but i do like shaka's mini-courthouse-substitutes. they're spiffy and i was eventually going to make some barracks anyway, even if it's only to boost my power rating *giggle*. so it's nice to have it there from day one so i can make one, or at least toss overflow hammers into it, if i have a city doesn't have anything more urgent on the list. even tho i'm not in "i'm losing gold at 20% science" situations, saving maintenance does help.

monty's UB is really nifty! i didn't used to whip much but i learned how by using sac altars, and actually had hubby pre-check the map and add some extra food so that i could whip 'em more than usual, just to get the hang of it. the problem is, i can't stand to actually play as him. the jaguar outfits are really tacky. so for my practice "learn to whip games" i modded the .xml to give some other leader that as their UB, maybe it was Cyrus i'm not sure. luckily i did remember to go back and replace the original file afterwards, so that i didn't have to face an overpowered Cyrus in my next game!

The Ziggurat is useful - you can expand earlier without maintenance being a problem - but it's got nothing on the Rathaus.

oh see i'm a cruel oppressor even in 1800/1900 ADs time frame, off and on. my favorite trait is spiritual, so swapping back and forth is easy enough.

i haven't played as HRE, i might never actually. for a long time i'd never played as JC or Gus, so now i don't play them just because it's fun to be one of the few people who's never played as rome . i'm easily amused.

i keep having this issue with corporations tho. i see seafood and i go make a city to get it, because i know i'll beeline to medicine far earlier than i did before BtS. health issues are the pits now, and added bonus, Sid's Sushi comes with it, so i'm gonna get it early. and then i found the corp, but i have so many of the resources that it ends up costing me a fortune, even using solver's patch. and then of course i'll see some other one-tile island with 2 crabs in the cross and do i have the self-control to ignore it? no . rathauses would definitely help there. maybe i'll try HRE on unrestricted leaders someday ... i don't wanna look like burger king.

i'll be watching this thread, it'll be interesting for me to see what you folks who are actually brave enough to go out clobbering heads early think of the UB versions.

 

[Enigma256]

Rathaus, no contest

ps: don't butcher the German language like that

 

[Bibor]

I played several games with pure Specialist Economy combined with early attacks on surrounding enemies. In all of those games I reach a point where capturing another enemy city would make me bankrupt (literally). Why? Because I have no Merchants to compensate and I can't build Wealth in cities.
In one of these games I had to switch from Code of Laws (which was like 50 turns away) to Fishing, just to make the water tiles workable, to survive the severe maintenance costs.
What i learned is that whether using Specialist Economy or not, I do need a single full Cottage city for simply making pure money.

My point being, a building that gives you the option of building a Courthouse so early as with Priesthood, then Ziggurat clearly wins the day.
If I'm cornered (I tend to play on Normal size maps), I sometimes don't have the option of sparing a spot for a Cottage City (I can get those from AI ). But for starting (and Ending!) successful wars, I do need to cut on the expenses.

Since I don't play Large/Huge maps, Rathaus is not so compelling. Sure, the added 50% land you can grab with Rathaus is nice, but the AI cities tend to be Cottaged anyways, so I'm basically capturing cities that pay for themselves. I never have money issues Medieval Ages+.

Kirby

 

[Arlborn]

Ziggurat is actually not bad in Marathon - low sea level - pangea - standard number of civilizations, or less.

But that is a tad too specific.

I can't really say anything, as I only played with Ziggurat, and even then I got CoL form oracle for religion + caste system.

 

[Stylesrj]

I'd say that Holy Roman Empire Courthouse is the best one out of them. The Ziggurat and the Courthouse almost have no differences except a lower cost and earlier. BORING!!!!

I want something that provides a benefit.

But I'm still sticking with Gandhi and Roosevelt

 

[Elandal]

They're all good buildings.

Altar is excellent for Monty because of Spiritual - he can do some whipping then go to other civics again. I would expect this to be the Spiritual choice of Courthouse.

Ziggurat is nice in that it comes early and is cheap. Sure I will eventually get to CoL because of Caste System anyway, and I don't usually go for religious path that early (I consider them backfills - and no, I don't remember when I've last built Oracle), but with Ziggurats I can swerve around before going for CoL.

Rathaus gets better with age. The difference of 75% vs 50% reduction isn't a big deal when you build courthouses (sure it's something you take into account, but it's still not THAT much), but add corporations and colonial maintenance... Yes, 75% reduction will mean HRE doesn't worry about city costs - ever.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Rathaus, no contest. With -75% maintenance reduction, the Holy Romans can REALLY handle their economy well. Especially with how inflation works in BtS and with new Colonial Maintenance and Corporation Costs.

 

[CivDude86]

As another poster said, I usually get CoL before priesthood so that darn ziggurat forces to religous even when I know I won't get the oracle or a religon. And I play maps slightly crowded so I can usually fill up all the land peacefully at about the same time I get alphabet and can build research my way to CoL. Haven't tried the spy thing though with it.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I can't believe more people don't like the Ziggurat. It's ideal for early expansion, especially coupled with an early Vulture rush. Am I missing something?

 

[Kadasbrass]

I can't believe more people don't like the Ziggurat. It's ideal for early expansion, especially coupled with an early Vulture rush. Am I missing something?

Not to mention Sumar starts with Aguculture and Roads, which lets my good friend Darius (unrestricted leaders) build cottages with his first workers right off the bat if I grap Pottery right away.

 

[TheLastOne36]

i vote rathuas...

 

[kristopherb]

Ziggurat
I hate getting code of laws at least its a tec between me and Thoelogy

 

[dutchfire]

Sacrificial Altar :whip:

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

The Sacrificial Altar is nice, but the unhappiness can be managed with HR quite easily.

The Ziggurat has some great potential in early warmongering, especially if playing an Organised leader.

The Rathaus for me, baby. Slashing corp payments is too good to pass up.

 

[Polycrates]

Of those three, rathaus

But the correct answer is the ikhanda

All the courthouse-type UBs are exceptional, though

 

[Lightwave]

[snipped...]
Rathaus gets better with age. The difference of 75% vs 50% reduction isn't a big deal when you build courthouses (sure it's something you take into account, but it's still not THAT much),....

Really? It seems to me that the extra 25% is effectively a factor of two more cities since maintenance goes from 1/2 to 1/4, so the bonus is actually quite large IMO. Sure it takes a number of turns to get them in new cities, but after a stabilized expansion, the extra 25% is the difference between 8 and 16 cities.

Am I missing it somewhere?

Edit: Sorry, I later realized the obvious answer to my own question: Unit maintenance, etc.