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Let's Discuss Addition of a New Civilization: Turkey

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by moors, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. moors

    moors Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    105
    I don't know how to recommend the developers to add a civilization like this, but at worst I think it can be modded.

    Considering Civilization VI, this is what I think currently:

    Civilization: Turkey

    Leader: Ataturk

    Leader Bonuses
    Public Sovereignty: Leaves a good first impression on every leader. Can change policies anytime without paying gold if the government is a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy. Foreign religious units initiate mutual migration of people with different beliefs and the followers of the religion they belong to instead of spreading religion to Turkey, only potentially helping with the spread of religious pressure. After the discovery of nationalism, receives the great general Mustafa Kemal. Mustafa Kemal also delivers +3 science and +2 culture bonus to the Turkish city he is on a tile of while Turkey is not in a war.

    Leader Agenda
    Kemalism: Strives to be in the newest era among the civilizations. Likes peaceful civilizations who never invaded Turkey. Does not give up on a tile that was once inside Turkey.

    Civilization Ability
    Nomadic Origins: Units can move inside the borders of other civilizations without open borders as peaceful visitors(without declaring a war and removing citizens from tiles or changing terrain features...) until the discovery of nationalism. War weariness does not increase for battles fought within borders or cities that were once yours. While a military unit of a warmongering enemy is inside the borders of Turkey and within 10 turns of losing a city, Turkey gets +50% production bonus towards military units.

    Unique Tile Improvement
    Village Institutes: Requires education. Can be built anywhere a farm can be built if it also does not have an appeal above uninviting. +1 food from each adjacent farm tile. +2 gold from each adjacent plantation. +1 production from each adjacent pasture. 1+ science if within 3 tiles of a campus. +1 culture if within 3 tiles of a theater square.

    Unique Building
    Parliament: Becomes available after the discovery of political philosophy and provides double the amount of everything a palace provides. The government must be a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy for it to be built. When built, the palace becomes obsolete and the capital becomes where parliament is. Costs 150 production and does not require maintenance.

    Unique Unit
    Preferably,
    Nusret: Turkish unique industrial era naval unit. Requires steam power research to be completed. Carries a naval mine that can be mined on or removed from water tiles using a full turn. Nusret can also go to a Turkish or ally city to replenish with a new naval mine. Turkish units and allies except Nusrets can not enter those tiles and the mines can not be seen by units of the countries who are not allies. There is a small chance that the units won’t hit the mine and the mine does a varying degree of damage between destroying the whole unit and reducing 20 health points when they are hit. (Let's say an expected average damage value of 50 health for susceptible units entering the water tile with a mine) 5 movement points, 40 melee strength, 380 production base cost, 6 gold base maintenance cost. Upgrades to destroyer.

    But can also be,
    Kuva-yi Milliye: Turkish unique industrial era unit. Requires military science research to be completed. Attacking does not cost a movement point and can move after attacking. 2 movement points, 50 melee strength, 60 ranged strength, 1 range. 340 production base cost and 5 gold base maintenance cost. Upgrades to rocket artillery.

    Music: March of Izmir
    (Sth like )

    (Optional) Scenario: An alternate history where Turkey struggles to take other lands left by the Ottoman Empire or the Turkish War of Independence maybe

    Please do not hesitate to post anything related...
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  2. Krajzen

    Krajzen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,095
    Location:
    Poland
    Personally I do support "Turkey" civ, but for different reasons

    1) Consistency - "Ottomans" is the only civ named after dynasty. You could argue that it is often how they are described in historiography, but so are "Habsburgs" instead of Austria, and yet in civ5 there was "Austria", not "Habsburgs"... And still: "Ottomans".
    2) Renaming "Ottomans" to "Turkey" would make this civ not restricted to, well, Ottoman period, but could include parts of Seljuk Empire, which I find very impressive. We could, for example, get Alp Arslan as a leader.

    Also, I don't think basing Turkey on times around 1914-1922 is a good idea. Firaxis loves to avoid controversies, and this is very controversial period due to severe differences in perception of it between Turkey and Christian countries.
     
    moors likes this.
  3. moors

    moors Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    105
    I believe that if the developers are considering getting a higher approval of the players and adding new players, it would be better to add Turkey instead of the Ottoman Empire. Because Ottoman Empire already appeared in the series and people generally associate themselves less with the Ottoman Empire than the current country they belong to. It's not only about Turks because if the player is Greek, there is Greece, if the player is Egyptian, there is Egypt, if the player is Persian, there is Persia, if the player is Arabian, there is Arabia(which I think represents better some countries once parts of the Ottoman Empire) and if the player is Macedonian, there is Macedon.

    I don't think of Turkey encompassing the Seljuk Empire but this is a game and you can even conquer the whole world, right ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  4. moors

    moors Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    105
    Ok, I significantly changed it, I think it is better now, I'll be pasting it over the original post.
    This is what it was:

    Civilization: Turkey

    Leader: Ataturk

    Leader Bonuses
    Public Sovereignty: Leaves a great first impression on every leader. While a military unit of a warmongering enemy is inside the borders of Turkey and within 10 turns of losing a city, Turkey gets +50% and +100% production bonus towards military units respectively. War weariness does not increase for battles fought within borders or cities that were originally yours. +10% bonuses to production and gold countrywide. Can change policies anytime without paying gold if the government is a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy. Foreign religious units initiate mutual migration of people with different beliefs and the followers of the religion they belong to instead of spreading religion to Turkey, only potentially helping with the spread of religious pressure.

    Leader Agenda
    Kemalism: Prioritises advancing in science and culture. Likes peaceful neighbour civilizations.

    Civilization Ability
    Modern Leader: Starts with the great general Mustafa Kemal. The tile Mustafa Kemal is on can not be entered by enemy forces. Mustafa Kemal also delivers +1 science and +1 culture bonus to the Turkish city he is on the tile of while Turkey is not in a war. The science bonus goes up by one after the discovery of each writing and education, and the culture bonus goes up by one after the discovery of humanism.
    Can change to a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy anytime without paying gold if the related civic was discovered.

    Unique Tile Improvement
    Village Institutes: Provides +2 Food and +0.5 housing. Can be built anywhere a farm can be built if it also does not have an appeal above uninviting. After the completion of a campus district in the city it starts to provide +1 science and after the discovery of drama and poetry it starts to provide +1 culture. Food bonus goes up by one after the discovery of scientific theory.

    Unique Building
    Parliament: After the discovery of political philosophy automatically replaces the palace and provides double the amount of everything a palace provides.

    Music: March of Izmir
    (Sth like )

    Scenario: Turkish War of Independence

    Again, this is an earlier state of what it was, what I think now is in the original post at the top, please do not hesitate to leave a comment
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  5. moors

    moors Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    105
    If this civilization was in the game, how would you rate it ? Do you think I shall play with its powers ?

    Civilization: Turkey

    Leader: Ataturk

    Leader Bonuses
    Public Sovereignty: Leaves a good first impression on every leader. Can change policies anytime without paying gold if the government is a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy. Foreign religious units initiate mutual migration of people with different beliefs and the followers of the religion they belong to instead of spreading religion to Turkey, only potentially helping with the spread of religious pressure. After the discovery of nationalism, receives the great general Mustafa Kemal. Mustafa Kemal also delivers +3 science and +2 culture bonus to the Turkish city he is on a tile of while Turkey is not in a war.

    Leader Agenda
    Kemalism: Strives to be in the newest era among the civilizations. Likes peaceful civilizations who never invaded Turkey. Does not give up on a tile that was once inside Turkey.

    Civilization Ability
    Nomadic Origins: Units can move inside the borders of other civilizations without open borders as peaceful visitors(without declaring a war and removing citizens from tiles or changing terrain features...) until the discovery of nationalism. War weariness does not increase for battles fought within borders or cities that were once yours. While a military unit of a warmongering enemy is inside the borders of Turkey and within 10 turns of losing a city, Turkey gets +50% production bonus towards military units.

    Unique Tile Improvement
    Village Institutes: Provides +2 Food. Can be built anywhere a farm can be built if it also does not have an appeal above uninviting. When next to a campus, theater square, industrial zone, commercial hub or harbor, and/or neighbourhood or aqueduct, receives the adjacency bonuses +1 science, culture, production, gold, and/or housing respectively.

    Unique Building
    Parliament: Becomes available after the discovery of political philosophy and provides double the amount of everything a palace provides. The government must be a classical republic, merchant republic or democracy for it to be built. When built, the palace becomes obsolete and the capital becomes where parliament is. Costs 150 production and does not require maintenance.

    Unique Unit
    Nusret: Turkish unique industrial era naval unit. Requires steam power research to be completed. Carries a naval mine that can be mined on or removed from water tiles using a full turn. Nusret can also go to a Turkish or ally city to replenish with a new naval mine. Turkish units except Nusrets and allies can not enter those tiles and the mines can not be seen by units of the countries who are not allies. There is a small chance that the units won’t hit the mine and the mine does a varying degree of damage between destroying the whole unit and reducing 20 health points when they are hit. (Let's say an expected damage value of 50 health for each susceptible unit entering the water tile with a mine) 5 movement points, 40 melee strength, 380 production base cost, 6 gold base maintenance cost. Upgrades to destroyer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  6. moors

    moors Chieftain

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    This is the response from 2K for my recommandation:

    Thank you for taking the time to contact 2K Support

    We really appreciate you taking the time, both to reach out to us and for sharing Civilization ideas with us for Civilization VI!

    We are sorry to have to disappoint anyone who has put time and effort into creating a game idea, but it is our policy not to accept unsolicited ideas from the public. There are several reasons for this, including the potential legal issues involved. Our R&D department is currently not accepting submissions.

    If you have any other questions or concerns related to 2K titles, don’t hesitate to contact us again; we’re happy to assist you further!

    Apologies for any inconvenience.

    Best Regards,
     
  7. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Male
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    Earth
    That makes sense actually, but don't disparate. We know for a fact that they read much of what the fans say, and that what the majority of the fans want influences what the devs do. Consider Polynesia as a civ in Civ V. Initially it started out in the forums with fans coming up with ideas, such as being able to instantly embark into ocean tiles, moai statues, and Kamehameha the Great being the fan choice for a leader...All this came to be a reality because the devs care about what we want, and take note of the best of our ideas.
     
    moors likes this.
  8. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    189
    This, mostly.

    I mean, there is the *slight* issue that the Ottomans did not identify as Turks and modern Turks are definitely not Ottomans. And the whole Armenian genocide thing (which I think is also a bit hyperbolic, given that colonialism and subjugation are a part of nearly every civ's history). But naming a civ after a dynasty has always irritated me and the Ottomans certainly represent the best of Turkish history.

    Also, Civ is notorious for politically white-washing certain parts of history, like representing Arabia as the smaller, more peaceful Ayyubid empire or more recently Korea as Silla, which conveniently robs North Korea of acknowledgement. Making the Ottomans "Turkey" would send the same message of tacit disapproval as making the Qin dynasty "China" rather than more modern representation.

    I really hope this happens, because I'm finding I like these historically agglomerative civs like "Norway" and "Macedon" and "Germany" much more unique and economical from a game design standpoint than necessitating we also get HRE, Austria, and/or Prussia. Firaxis is learning to prioritize and consolidate civs so that they can look past Euro History 101 and flesh out the civ world, and I wholly approve.

    And since we're on the topic of Turkey: Byzantium should just be an alt leader for Rome. In past games which were decidedly Mediterranean-centric and TSL maps weren't really a thing, it was a logical inclusion. In Civ VI, it doesn't have the space to differentiate itself from Rome, Greece, Macedon, Egypt, Turkey, and arguably Poland/Georgia. It makes more sense to just give Rome Justinian/Theodora as a religious/naval leader, ala Chandragupta. That way if diehard Byzantium fans still can't live without a full Byz civ, they have the animated leader to make a mod with.
     
  9. moors

    moors Chieftain

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    I'm not knowledgable about the subject (I maybe would not consider myself knowledgeable without a related academic career and a lot of studying) and I'm not sure if there's something to be named genocide but I don't think it can be enough to prevent the appearance of Turkey because if the game did not include civilizations with bad deeds I'm sure we would not see many civilizations already in the game.
     

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