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Lets get this out into the open: MRAs

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Quackers, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    You can't really prove anything about people who are not detected/apprehended.

    A lot more men in prison than women.

    I'm not really arguing that women definitely can get away with more crimewise, just that they probably can. The other night I was hanging with a 19-year old who easily got into a bar without showing her ID via flirting. Women have certain powers & use them. Men have other powers & use them. Everyone does the best they can to utilize stereotypes & take advantage of prejudices.

    And she's much more likely to get caught as she may be out on the street instead of in her home. This is more of a class issue than a race one.
     
  2. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    And what differences are those pray tell? Beyond one's ability to impregnate and another's ability to give birth?

    We're no longer feral animals, this biotruths stuff is quite insulting.
     
  3. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Some MRA organisations and individuals actually do work with feminists, though the anti-feminist ones get more publicity, I guess.

    Israel does practice female conscription, though women have shorter service periods and do not act as reservists after their service, while men do. Gender differences can and do matter, as both enemy and hostile combatants may react differently to women in less than positive ways, no matter how much effort is taken to be treated the same. There have been succesful female warriors in history, though they are arguably the exceptions that prove the general rule. It isn't unreasonable to have vastly different expectation towards different sexes in military roles at all.
     
  4. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    First: What a cop out, you made the claim i'd at least expect an ounce of evidence to back it up.

    Second: What powers are these? I too have a friend who doesn't need to show their id when they go to the bar. They are male.

    Third: Except thats not the case: Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana.
     
  5. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I wasn't trying to make this about Israel because Israel's position is more unique. I brought it up because at least Israel has some expectation of women in the military.

    I do think its well worth bringing up how the abuse of men in military service is largely ignored by human rights groups and if we're going to have a discussion of equal rights then to bring up how men face the greater burden of military service which I think is more relevant to the European countries that still practice conscription than Israel. If people want to create an egalitarian society than make it more egalitarian in all ways.
     
  6. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Again, except for trying to lump two quite dissimilar groups together MRA advocates make essentially the same claims about feminism.

    You are also stereotyping feminists. It is an extraordinarily diverse group with a multitude of POVs. Some of them are indeed as fanatical as many MRA advocates are. But they are more the exception than the rule. There is good reason for a group which continues to be discriminated against in so many ways protests this gross inequity.

    The notion that men need their so-called rights protected is just as silly as the Christians who claim they are being discriminated against in the US where they are the overwhelming majority. Trying to even compare the MRA advocates to feminists shows a deep misunderstanding of the real issues which is unfortunately all too common with many conservatives.
     
  7. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Not everything true can be proven on an Internet forum.

    Like many problems women face. Most sexual abuse is not reported for instance & thus cannot be "proven".

    If you think everyone can get away with stuff equally you need to leave your house more & observe.

    Yeah, because of economic/social factors mostly. Racial profiling is probably a part too but profiling is based on social/class related assumptions. I don't think many people under 80 years old truly believe blacks are more inherently "criminal minded" anymore.
     
  8. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    What I found surprising a couple days ago was finding out that women are the perpetrators of domestic violence more often than men, in the U.S. at least.

    I only ever see "Violence against women" ads on TV and in the media, so I assumed that men were the #1 perpetrators.
     
  9. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Women hit men all the time, usually it doesn't hurt though.
     
  10. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    Silly me, expecting you to back up your claims about women somehow dodging punishment.

    So wait, how it be mostly social and economic factors when there's far more poor white people than black, yet blacks are disproportionately represented in jail and punished than white people?
     
  11. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Then you haven't been paying attention to what is frequently even claimed in this forum.

    Source please?

     
  12. Light Cleric

    Light Cleric ElCee/LC/El Cid

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    Gori's whole post was good but this is the best part of it.

    It's really a terrible attempt for these kids to try and shift the blame elsewhere rather than look inwardly and see if, I dunno, there's something wrong with them that makes all these women turned away from them. This is the kind of stuff that's understandable for guys to think at 15 years old, not 25 when you should have heard from/talked to/read enough stuff from girls to know better. "Liking jerks" probably only accounts for like .1% of what these people actually see. I can seriously think of only one instance where that happened to me and it was when the girl explicitly told me she "likes men who are jerks but not to her" in a conversation later on down the road. What they see as "jerks" are guys who will approach women and won't have their world blown up if they get turned down. Who has the better chance with a woman, you sitting across the bar from her or the guy who got up and talked to her already? Not that hard to understand. These guys also tend to insecure and controlling which (SPOILERS) women do not like.
     
  13. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    You didn't know women get away with crime?

    Or are you being deliberately obtuse? Because, really, I thought this was pretty common sense and common knowledge.


    Women receive lighter sentences and have a higher chance of avoiding incarceration if convicted (probation, suspended, community service)

    I can supply a lot more similar links

    @Formaledehyde

    Not sure when domestic violence ever entered this picture, but I'll answer your 85% female victim claim with this: men aren't victims.

    This is engrained by society forever whenever there are gendered issues. Man gets slapped by a woman? Obviously must have done something to deserve it. How can she slap? Men don't think of themselves as victims, in no small part because there is no sympathy for them in the first place. Gotta suck it up, buttercup, because there are no other options.

    Furthermore I'm pretty damn sure that claim is outdated at best.

    Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In non-reciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.

    You know, if you're actually interested in debating MRA issues, and not useless('s) strawmen, there's a list here.
     
  14. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13241165&postcount=28
    Can't quote cause the resident "feminists" got the thread closed.
    I'm sure the links are clearly visible.

    Anyway, if you follow through with all the links it should become obvious to you a) why i can, must and will reject your "source" wholesale and b) and how you have in citing this subpar source commited grave negligence.

    Anyway, i am speculating that warpus may be refering to UK statistics on intimate partner violence, none the less.
     
  15. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    So highly reputable sources supporting the facts presented are some sort of "subpar source commited grave negligence"?

    But go right ahead and show that what you allege is actually true.

    It is a very good thing that women aren't nearly as prone to violence as men typically are. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Thelmas and Louises each year exacting their revenge on a society which chronically mistreats their gender so badly?
     
  16. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    In academia, sources older than 10 years typically aren't acceptable. :mischief:

    I will point out that my posted domestic violence study is newer, published in 2007.

    I will also concede that my women's sentencing study is older than 10 years, being also from 2001, but I doubt that is under any serious contention so it should be adequate.
     
  17. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    I already did.
    In fact, if you'd care to follow through on examining my post above and the contained links you'd even get information on why your source's data is bad.

    Oh, and you should really cut out your attitude. You're living in a country that ranks #43 or something in gender equality and are behaving all superior towards me (#7) and KG (#1), while i outraise your bs private source with the NIH and CDC.
    The least you have to do at that point is to actually appreciate the linked information.
    You don't get to be all snooty about the interaction at that point.
    Not until you make a constant effort to keep up with foreign language sources, private and public, in say the Netherlands or Germany.

    I'm not going to lecture here on selective citing. The point is, why didn't you cite the (dated) primary source on the datum which you are contesting. Also: Note that the CDC doesn't back up warpus' claim. Before you think i claimed it did.


    Edit: Don't misunderstand this as a primary-sources-only rant. I'm the most lazy person myself. So i get it.
    The point is you don't get to be lazy like that and be all smug about "having sources" while your opposition is supposedly talking out of their asses at the same time.
    It's one or the other.
     
  18. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    The numbers are "skewed", because it's women beating kids, not men. At least that's what some study said.

    So it's not women beating men, although that does happen too.

    I feel sexist just even touching this subject. It's like a wave of sexism has just washed over me and I'm creeped out... I'm outta here..
     
  19. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663360/

     
  20. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    You know, I wonder if the 'lower sentences' thing can be explained by simple factors commonly considered in justice theory. In general, you want to make sentences severe enough to deter recidivism. Most sentencing hearings are based around the theme that the convict is less likely to re-offend than normal. A person who uses their bail time wisely can really drop down the sentence they end up receiving.

    Anyway, I wonder if that's a factor.
     

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