[LETS PLAY] Civilization IV - Cavemen to Cosmos: When Cultures Collide

[The13thRonin]

38 civilizations... 1 path to victory... Total mastery... Who will REIGN SUPREME?​

Children gather round and let me tell you the story of how the world came to be. The legends tell of a time eons ago called The First Times. The First Times is when the Gods escaped from The Void and entered our world. Nothing exists in The Void not even time itself. When the Gods first came through to our world there were hundreds of them. They rejoiced to have found a place where life could be brought into being and they joined together and used their magics to create The First World. The First World was a lush paradise that stretched on forever. It was so much bigger and more magical than the world we know today that our minds cannot comprehend how insignificantly small and mundane the world is now by comparison. Millions upon millions of strange and wonderful plants and animals existed in harmony and the Gods were pleased.

It was then that the Gods decided to create The First People. The First People were ten feet tall and beautiful beyond imagining. Each one of The First People had two pairs of glorious wings affixed to their backs which they used to soar through the air. The Gods were pleased with The First People and they named them angels. For a time all was well and life flourished in The First Times. Eventually however the Gods grew jealous of each other as each God felt that it was his or her right to preside over the angels. Although the angels were a gentle people the Gods enraged their hearts and minds so they took up the sword against one another. Each God and his or her angel disciples waged war upon the next and The First World was consumed in the rage of the Gods.

All of creation was consumed in the fiery wrath of the Gods. The animals and plants burned and withered under the fire of their rage. All of the angels perished and their blood soaked into the world itself and plunged it into darkness and decay. Almost all of the Gods were destroyed. The last 38 Gods finally ended the bloodshed but it was too late and they felt great sorrow for what they had done. The First Age had come to an end. The Gods tried to rebuild The First World as it had been but having only a fraction of the magics required to create The First World they were unable to recreate it in its former glory. The Gods were only able to make a much smaller more mundane world. The Gods tried to recreate The First People but the new people were wingless and much smaller. The Gods called these people humans.

The Gods feared that they would once again turn to war with one another and they knew that the next time they would not be able to rebuild the world at all so they made a pact. Each God would be reborn as a human. A human who would not age or get sick or die. These 38 immortal humans would guide 38 tribes of the new people and after many tens of thousands of years the God who demonstrated he was most capable of guiding the humans in all affairs would ascend to be the one true God of creation while the rest of the Gods were banished back into the void. The Gods set to work with their magic and re-birthed themselves in human form.

What happened next is history...

Civilizations:

Spoiler :

​

Rule-set:

Spoiler :

Monarch difficulty
ONLY MASTERY VICTORY
Aggressive AI
No technology trading
No technology brokering
No Barbarian civilizations
No Tech diffusion
Multiple production
Multiple Research
Surround and destroy
Advanced diplomacy
Usable mountains
Unlimited wonders
Barbarian generals
Great commanders
Advanced economy
Realistic culture spread
Realistic corporations
Barbarians always raze
United Nations
Advanced espionage
Modern corporations
Advanced nukes
Unlimited national units

World options

Spoiler :

C2C_Planet_Generator
Size: Giant
Era: Prehistoric
Speed: Snail

Part 1: Walking Around and Meeting People

Part 2: Gathering Storms and Impending Eruptions

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Wow another LP. A couple questions how experienced are you at c2c. Also are you playing with city limits and REV. Also ever thought of using adavnced difficulty in the bug menu. C2C planet generator??? Finally why no tech trading or broking. Well looks like this will be fun to watch. Cant wait.

Edit - can you post a link of your Dwarf Fortress Bay post

 

[The13thRonin]

Wow another LP. A couple questions how experienced are you at c2c.

I haven't played a single game of C2C but I'm experienced in AND (Prince level). I expect that people will enjoy watching me get my butt kicked in by the AI .

Also are you playing with city limits and REV.

Yes to revolutions, no to city limits (if that's the default). What does city limits do? Should I change either of these two options? I'm open to changing the settings to be 'better'.

Also ever thought of using adavnced difficulty in the bug menu.

What benefits does this offer over Monarch difficulty and aggressive AI? I have not used this before.

Finally why no tech trading or broking. Well looks like this will be fun to watch. Cant wait.

The AI often allow themselves to be exploited through tech trading and I find that with no tech diffusion and trading some cultures are able to get a distinctive scientific edge on other cultures unlike otherwise where everyone is always at the same tech (kind of defeating the purpose).

PS - If anyone has anymore suggestions for settings and options let me know. I won't be starting the actual game for a couple of days/a week or so, so there's plenty of time to finalize things.

 

[Praetyre]

I would recommend turning on Assimilation, Complete Kills and Usable Mountains. Otherwise, that looks like a pretty good selection to me.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

I haven't played a single game of C2C but I'm experienced in AND (Prince level). I expect that people will enjoy watching me get my butt kicked in by the AI .



Yes to revolutions, no to city limits (if that's the default). What does city limits do? Should I change either of these two options? I'm open to changing the settings to be 'better'.



What benefits does this offer over Monarch difficulty and aggressive AI? I have not used this before.



The AI often allow themselves to be exploited through tech trading and I find that with no tech diffusion and trading some cultures are able to get a distinctive scientific edge on other cultures unlike otherwise where everyone is always at the same tech (kind of defeating the purpose).

PS - If anyone has anymore suggestions for settings and options let me know. I won't be starting the actual game for a couple of days/a week or so, so there's plenty of time to finalize things.

There is tech diffusion and the AI are alot better at trading techs then in AND. City limits are activated automatically and give you unhappiness if you have a certain civc goveremnt level ( i usually play with them). The difficulty thing changes your difficulty automatically based on how well you play. Also i woukd recomend going into the bug menu to use terrain damage and viewports. Finally if you would like, i could post a list of the settings i use on here.

Sorry if my post is a little hard to read

 

[Hydromancerx]

@The13thRonin

The 7 must have settings in my opinion ...

1. Snail Speed
2. PerfectWorld2f Map
3. Minor Civ
4. Revolutions
5. Assimilation
6. Usable Mountains
7. Terrain Damage (Under the BUG menu in game)

 

[12padams]

Oh hi fellow lets player

I was just wondering how you plan to record your lets play. What software? Resolution? Ect... Also are you gunna record everything from start to finish? Or will it be more of an occasional update lets play?

I've noticed you have choosen to play with 38 civs on a giant map! How awesome are you lol I am currently doing my own lets play with 20 civs on a huge map (just below giant). Are you going to use view ports (cuts of a large portion of the map to reduce ai turn time). I don't use it for my lets play because I personally hate view ports.

Without view ports however you're looking at 10 seconds of ai turn time per turn with 20 civs on a huge map in the prehistoric and way more in future ages. On a giant map with 38 civs its gunna be a nightmare! So... What's your plan? What I did/am doing (my lets play is still going) is edit out all ai turn time in movie maker after recording it.

You can look at what removing ai turn looks like on episode 5 (all episodes have ai turn time removed) of my lets play here: http://youtu.be/i7xZdJ3Jnh4?t=1m3s (skip the first minute)

It does take a long time removing ai turn time from your video so don't do it if you get bored easily otherwise it will put you off making the lets play. Remember... It's all about having fun so don't make it work or feel like you have to remove turn time like me. It's just an option...

 

[The13thRonin]

My Lets Play is going to be in written AAR style updates with LOTS of screencaps and interesting images, etc. Not doing any video recordings.

38 civs and video recording would be a nightmare... It'll be bad enough as is but I'll read a book while I wait for turn times to resolve.

I am well aware that in later ages turn times will exceed 2-3 minutes. Hopefully some of the Civs will be destroyed by then though. I might have to see if I can help that along a little ! I'm not the greatest player ever though, I don't have an 'optimal build' so we'll see how we go haha. If I get wiped out I plan on taking over another civ, possibly the one who destroyed me or the lowest ranking one.

Should I play at Monarch difficulty or Prince? I want to give the AI enough of an edge as I hear they have difficulty in the prehistoric era? Also what turn does the Mastery victory condition end the game? I want to make sure I get to go fully through the tech tree.

 

[12padams]

Ah ok lol

I will do a Lets play of this game with 50 civs on a gigantic map with ai turn time cut out next year just to prove it can actually be done lol. I just want to wait until this mod reaches space before I do that though. Do you plan to do more lets plays after this one once the mod is more advanced in the future?

 

[The13thRonin]

Ah ok lol

I will do a Lets play of this game with 50 civs on a gigantic map with ai turn time cut out next year just to prove it can actually be done lol. I just want to wait until this mod reaches space before I do that though. Do you plan to do more lets plays after this one once the mod is more advanced in the future?

We'll see how I go with this one . I'm mainly doing it for myself because I enjoy sharing my trials and tribulations but if the community likes this one I might do another.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Okay, a few things.

Props for no tech trading.

I've heard religion decay does not work as intended, mostly from shen. Something about the buildings not preventing it from decaying. Basically it's way too hard to protect a religion from extinction. I'd leave it off.

No barbs, and yet barbs always raze...? Or is "No barbarian civilizations" just meaning they can't make cities?

Please, please keep city limits on. I really feel it is an integral feature to C2C. Besides, if you're playing with REV on, you're basically limited in how fast you expand, anyways.
Plese keep city limits on. It is on by default, by the way.

Mastery difficulty, as far as I am aware, is not turn limited.

Your very first game of C2C, eh? If you normally play on Prince, then monarch, as you've chosen, is a good choice. The general rule of thumb is to play two levels higher than regular civ (though I'd say three), but for you first game, one higher is good.

Flexible difficulty means every 50 turns (scaled for gamespeed), the difficulty increases, up to deity. For your first game, I'd definitely say no to that.

I vote for Leonidas. Haven't seen a good greek LP in a while.

P.S. who is #2? Yowza...

 

[The13thRonin]

I've heard religion decay does not work as intended, mostly from shen. Something about the buildings not preventing it from decaying. Basically it's way too hard to protect a religion from extinction. I'd leave it off.

Ok its out.

No barbs, and yet barbs always raze...? Or is "No barbarian civilizations" just meaning they can't make cities?

It means the barbarian cities can't form actual proper civilizations. So for example a bunch of barbarians won't become Gandhi just because no-one killed that one city.

Please, please keep city limits on. I really feel it is an integral feature to C2C. Besides, if you're playing with REV on, you're basically limited in how fast you expand, anyways.
Plese keep city limits on. It is on by default, by the way.

What is city limits? I do not understand what it is and I don't think it was on by default? What does it do?

P.S. who is #2? Yowza...

I know right? Some Aztec princess. I think she was the daughter of a famous Aztec leader .

 

[wolfensoul9]

Yeah, totally. Not only is she quite the looker, but it looks well-painted. Definitely the best out of the lot...

Oh right, C2C. Ha..

City limits is...

You start out being only able to build three cities. You CAN build more, but at HUGE happiness and stability penalties. Massive.

Once you get Chiefdom, a civic, you can go up to six. Also, going over gets you slightly less penalties per city. Still enormous.

Get monarchy, and you can go up to a dozen or so, I forget the exact numbers. Also, at that point, you can probably go over a fair bit.

Republic gets you 20 or so, with hardly any penalites for going over.

Basically it serves as a check on yours, and this is the important part, AI's growth. And checks on growth is one of the hallmarks of C2C. Without it, the game is far more boring in my opinion, as not being able to expand like crazy makes you focus more on the other aspects of the game. It also makes it all the more sweet when you get a civic that lets you have more.

Most importantly, it makes the AI less inclined to overexpand. And this is important, because the AI still has some kinks to work out with REV.

Unless you like seeing the AI fracture into a million pieces, and thusly a very boring game, I'd keep it on.

Now, city limits isn't the end all be all of the AI issue. They still have issues with it on. But it helps, in my experience.

And I am pretty darn certain it is the default setting.

I've gotten some criticism, but I stand by this. City limits is how the game is meant to be played. Opinion, abound.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@wolfensoul9,

Why don't you just set up ALL the Lets Plays? Why bother with letting the person doing it make their own decisions?

JosEPh

 

[wolfensoul9]

Ha, well if they ask for advice, who am I to deny them? You are free as well, Joseph.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Sure I could, but then I'd be "influencing" All their decisions too.

You really need to realize yours may not be the "only" way too play.

City Limits is Not friendly to the AI nor the player. And REV is a good choice for the player (more restraints) but Bad choice for the AI. So what's better?

JosEPh

 

[TowerWizard]

And this is important, because the AI still has some kinks to work out with REV.

Unless you like seeing the AI fracture into a million pieces, and thusly a very boring game, I'd keep it on.

When I saw that you were playing with Revolutions on, in my mind I renamed your game to "When cultures collapse"

 

[wolfensoul9]

Joseph, I have to admit I'm not understanding why you think there is a dichotomy between the value of REV and city limits. Friendly? Neither are friendly to either the AI or human. They are restraints, pure and simple.

Their value, or lack thereof, rests in the balance between how well the human and AI adapt to them. Currently, I don't think anyone can argue that the human is far better at adapting to REV than the AI, and is in fact why I sometimes play with it off. It gives a better game challenge when the AI doesn't self-implode.

However, I have mixed feelings about turning it off solely for a better challenge. It is such an important feature to C2C...it is such a shame to have it off....thus, to get the best of both worlds, of challenge and features being implemented, I always will recommend a fairly high difficulty level, along with REV on.

My understanding is that the AI handles city limits much better than REV. Keeping it in enhances the spirit of C2C's "Limited growth". So I see no downsides. No downsides + implemented feature = my recommendation.

That's basically the rationale behind my choices. I do know that that is not the only way to play. I will, however, pending updates to my understanding of the features, recommend it up and down as "the best".

In summary, opinion is opinion. I express mine, and you yours. I do not want to come off as a person who pushes their values upon others, and I hope you are not coming to see me as such. I will make my case for the settings I endorse. If they aren't agreed to, I'll simply say, "Aww man...bah, oh well." and then that'll be the last you hear of the matter.

 

[Mouthwash]

Do it on GEM!

 

[JosEPh_II]

My understanding is that the AI handles city limits much better than REV. Keeping it in enhances the spirit of C2C's "Limited growth". So I see no downsides. No downsides + implemented feature = my recommendation.

I don't know how long you've been in this forum as a lurker. As a poster just a short time.

REV and City Limits at one time Would've been The Default way to play had I sat still and said nothing. But I did protest and persuaded the team to keep them as Options. More Choices not less.

And I disagree with your assessment of both. City Limits is and was an arbitrary attempt to curb players from being Expansionist in their playstyles and strategies. They called it a name and made it derogatory, the labeled it "city spamming". It also curtails AI that have the Leader trait of Expansionist.

REV is an alright restriction mechanism for the player, but it's been documented time and again that REV will Destroy large healthy AI Empires. They implode and become weak and all it requires is some mop up action to pick up the shattered pieces. Because of this I will Not use REV until this defect/flaw is changed. But here's the kicker, It Is the Main premise for REV. So if you fix the flaw you make REV no longer REV.

So this is why I'm commenting. Especially when someone starts saying REV and City Limits are Core to playing C2C and are Implemented features? No they are not.

JosEPh