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Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I finished editing and posting screens of my coastal cities in the Colossus Plan several posts back. Click the link for easy access.
     
  2. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Maybe more REX will help resolve some of your questions. For example (hypothetically speaking), more REX might make it more attractive to tech the Music GA because the added REX gives you more absolute bpt. Or make building more forges for Colossus more attractive. I don't know. Just thought I'd throw it out there before it was too late.
     
  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I appreciate the pep talk to try to keep me rapidly expanding.

    I may have indicated that more REX stresses me out (trying to keep up with expenses,) but I know it's best to keep doing it--even if I have to lower the research slider. One of the reasons I played Large instead of Huge is that I can reach many, many more islands with galleys (no Astronomy). I've never planned so many settlers this early.

    Normally, I'd stop settling once it becomes too late for the new settler to pay off before corporations. But with Space race, I want to collect all the mining resources. so I'll try to keep on settling. It's painful to build settlers tho. I'm wondering if I'd be better off on Huge where I can get more free cities/workers.
     
  4. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Sneak peek into the next turnset...

    Mansa chose Construction(90) (after I sold him Mono -- which I got from Liz).
    Yes, 90 turns. That's how long it will take him at his current research rate.
    I might have to turn off EPs on him so he won't spend resources putting EPs on me. I'm not sure I care to see what he researches next even if he finishes that in half the turns.
    I think I'm also going to give him one of my Fur cities to boost his research.

    I found Liz (due West). I have +3 trade rts to all 4 of her cities, and resource trades are available.

    T152 (just 4 turns later)
    -308gpt +284bpt
    I hope to report my bpt passing up the -gpt soon.

    Seems like -308 is going to be -400 soon and -500 not long after. Each city is about -20, so 10 more cities will put me over -500gpt.
    I've also decided to accept the fact that I might have to run a couple turns at 0% research at some point. As much as I wanted to be able to say I kept it at 100% after Oracle, I know the right thing to do is settle all those new cities and capture Roosevelt's too.

    :think: Roosevelt's capital has Moai... I'll need to test to make sure I know what happens on capture. I assume Moai survives and I get all the failgold, but maybe not since I didn't build that one. Problem is, I'm not ready to cash out Moai. I wanted to have all my coastal cities try to do Colossus (~T170) first. I thought Moai would be ~T180 (when Colossus gold runs out). I want enough gold from that to get me to Mids (~T190-195).
     
  5. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    After thinking harder on Atlanta as the location of Colossus, I came up with this:

    Instead of starving 5->4, I can 0h whip something. (You get 60h when you whip from 0h.)
    A workboat might be nice, but to solve my problem of not having enough hammers to finish Colossus, I would whip a quechua, but not build it--remove it from the queue and start a forge.
    Next turn, 2-whip the forge and put the 60/30 quechua back in the queue. Now I'll have an MP unit and 32 base-hammers into Colossus next turn (88h)
    Now I can slowly put 6-7 hammers into a workboat. (whipping w/forge = 112h). Whip down to size 1 (which is fine since on T162, borders expand to include the corn...and that's the only good tile the city has.)

    2 forests is all I need to finish Colossus

    edit: after studying my worker plans, I can get those 2 chops done T168 for T169 Colossus and failgold comes T170. Both chops are 12 turns each (tundra)
    That far-north worker team (I'm moving 2 to make it 5 workers up there) will also first finish 2 golds (Edirne) and 2 chops for Istanbul, but poor Boston will have and unimproved Iron for a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I've got a new thought that I've never considered before. Building Crossbows. :dubious:
    Normally, I'm all about Horse Archers, but movement isn't such a big deal on this smaller-than-expected map.
    What's the real reason I'd build Xbows instead of HAs tho?
    1) I'll have Machinery T160 and Iron connected T159
    2) I'm pretty sure I'm going to skip HBR to save on the beakers.
    3) Most importantly, Xbows are 120h, so with forge, I can put 7/120 in and 2-whip for max OF

    But is this smart? why not just build swords for 80h?
    I've almost never attacked with Xbows before. +50% melee so they're better than swords when facing spears and way better than swords when you face Axes. But still not as good against city-archers, but very close
    Still, would I rather have 3 swords or 2 xbows for 240h? answer : 3 swords.
    The only reason for xbows is the production of OF hammers.

    I could do ~45/80 in a sword, then 1-whip instead of 2-whip for ~80 OF. (instead of ~112 OF).
    Doing a bunch of 1-whips is really hard on anger.

    can't decide.
     
  7. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Seems like the ceiling is higher with xbows.
     
  8. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I see xbow has a first strike too. I guess that is similar to my beloved HA's immunity to 1st strikes.
    (edit: xbows can also get Cover (+25% vs archery) where HAs can't. but HAs can withrdaw. Swords: city raider)
    If it was Cho-Ko-Nu, it'd be a no-brainer. I love those!
    I guess I'm looking for someone to come along and either tell me how great the +50% melee plays or talk me down to swords. I suppose in the end, I'll build both.
     
  9. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Having one or two in the stack is never a bad idea if you expect to be defending, but if you're going to use them against a city with a wide variety of defenders the swords will always draw the axes anyway.
     
  10. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Either 2P whip Crossbowmen to minimize whip anger or 1P whip Swordsmen and gift/recapture the whipped city to remove the whip anger. The 2P Crossbowmen whip provide maximum OF that can be applied to a wonder. Getting to 45/80H for the 1P Swordsmen whips seems like a waste of time, but maybe you do have time to waste (have time in the schedule to organically build up to 45/80H for the whip). If you want the units fast, Crossbowmen is definitely the way to go.

    EDIT: Also, as you mentioned, Crossbowmen can get the Cover promotion and if Archers are still the defender, that's probably almost/about as good as CR2 Swordsmen versus Archers. If the defenders are melee, Crossbowmen are OP.

    Good luck on your decision!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  11. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Not sure xbow, at 120h, is the faster way to get units. You have to grow to size 4 whip, and then grow 2 again. With swords, you can whip at size 3, again at size 2...but I see your point. Getting 45 organic :hammers:. I guess it depends on the city. Boston has corn + iron, so that can get 45h about the same time it can grow 1.

    I think you mean CR1. Swords get 10% city attack for free so with CR1 its 30%.
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    :splat:Mansa just finished Moai. I was kinda hoping it was Mids, but I'm not sure I can live without those GE points in Berlin. And I'm not sure I wanted to attack Mansa to capture mids either. I guess I'm gonna do Mids...ONLY cus Space Race needs that GE. That's a painful 1500h that could be 1500g (5 turns of research)
     
  13. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Let us remember how much weaker city attack is then strengh.

    I would say 1 combat/cover crossbows are similair strengh as 2 city raider swords.
     
  14. diegobueno

    diegobueno Chieftain

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    at 16 cities what is your plan to stop bleeding gold?, do you have Col? if you have, any courthouse? any library?
    one pro for HA is that they are immune to first attacks
    :goodjob:
     
  15. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Seems like a cash-focused economy could focus on lower-hammer units and upgrade where necessary? What would be the numbers behind 1-whipping Qs and paying to give them swords out of the OF failgold?

    Re. mids, presumably that wonder has a huge amount of WBE potential if you're going to build it. It sounds like you're at a point though where the need to spend whips getting out settlers is coming up hard against the need to spend whips on WBE money.
     
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  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I have adjusted my plans to try to get more forges in before settler whips.
    (I realized a while ago that the settlers can be delayed a bit as long as they're in place before HangingGardens)

    If I whip a 30/300 settler without a forge, it's 3 pop and minimal OF, but I can't afford to grow to size 8 and 4-whip. Not enough happy rt now and too slow.

    w/ Forge it's still not great. I only need to spend 1 turn building a settler, so I can 3-whip something like
    12/300 and get ~60 OF
     
  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    No CoL yet. Courthouses are painful to build (360h). In my worst cities right now, they'd provide only 8gpt.
    In the past, I've pretty quickly built the minimum needed for Forbidden Palace, but in those games I tended to beeline CoL/Civil Service. Who knows when I'll get CoL this game.

    I don't know that I can stop the bleeding or even slow it. I'm trading some resources for 1gpt.

    I might try to get a shrine (from the AI). To do this, one option might be to give Roosevelt my Holy City when he gets a GreatProphet. He has Henge + Moai in his capital.
    But the Buddhist shrine would be better. Willy has that Holy City.
     
  18. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Interesting idea. I think that's too expensive tho. I'd love to do things like this...and buying all buildings with Universal Sufferage. But I'm barely keeping up with funding research.
     
  19. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    I was thinking mainly from a tempo point of view, i.e. the Quechuas would get more quickly to a good OF point. Just running the numbers it occurred to me though they would upgrade to axes not swords :( Free combat 1 but still probably not what you want.

    For interest of anyone reading who can't be bothered to do the sums: Q vs Axe, the extra 40:hammers: whip overflow could translate to 110:gold: failgold, and the upgrade cost is 140:gold:. So not quite covering it, but getting them out faster (cash being readily available!)
     
  20. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    Did I hear you mention that you would consider subsidizing gpt trades in this game?
     

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