Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

[WastinTime]

Better to not run them consecutively based on your other logic?

each gap, necessary as it might be to keep WBE going, will delay the birth of Chem, Biology, etc. maybe Econ, Corp if I bulb those.

Another way to look at it is I didn't move GAge#2. To get the 5 turn gap, I started GAge#1 5t early.
Now you might suggest starting GAge#1 10t early and GAge#2 5t early...keeping GAge#3 in place. This is interesting, but it all depends on when my cities can be ready to start.

One final consideration is that I can complete Taj any time I want the failgold during GAge#2 if I run them consecutively. With a gap, I have to hold Taj until I want #3 to start.

 

[WastinTime]

Now that I think about it, I might have to have another slavery window for whipping Mining execs.
How impossible is it going to be to try and time it so I get Railroad and Corporation on exactly T266 (the end of GAge #2)?

I'd rather not delay Biology either. Originally, I had figured a way to get Biology bulbed before the end of the 2nd GAge. IIRC, that was using Taj for GAge #2. But then there's not a good way to kick off #3.

Or can I build mining execs in 1 turn without slavery? 200h each. Chops would be 112h in a forge city leaving 88h (71 base). Mining Inc: 35-40h? So given that the city has mining Inc plus workshops, I might be able to do it with 1 forest.
My Bureaucracy capital (+75%) likely won't have any forests left, or certainly not enough to make a series of execs. It would need 115 base hammers.

I suppose what has to happen is during the T238-243 slavery window, I need to whip things and not resolve them to save the OF for ~30turns. units will start to decay, right? so I need to use buildings. Courthouses I suppose? but it sucks to whip one and not use it for 30 turns. That's like 300. Do that in 50 cities and it's 15,000 gold lost. yuck. what else? Maybe a forge. Many cities won't have a forge and also have no use for the forge until Mining Inc. Forges kinda suck for overflow tho. Maybe settlers? Ideal cus I can settle mining resources. But do settlers decay too fast?
Or I go ahead and resolve the ch and settlers and keep the overflow by building wealth. But that means the city can't be building anything else or prepping things for whipping.

I'm just brainstorming. Anyone have thoughts? I'm leaning towards trying to do mining exec spread without slavery.

I suppose I need an exec spread plan, but that can probably wait. I should consider saving 1 forest per city tho. And right now, is when I'm considering chopping everything I can for the cash. Especially if the chops can land in the 5t OrgRel window and the city has my religion.

So many things to consider.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If you only need the equivalent of less than two chops total base hammers, then you have the option of saving OF hammers in cities not needing more builds or simply timing a completion with a simple max OF right before the Exec build, right? Seems like even island cities could produce some chain OFs with Mining, all carefully timed to fit into the exec plan, although that might be tougher.

Note: My mind only operates at Normal speed...

 

[Mitchum]

I rarely play Marathon but on Normal speed, building a Mining Inc. executive in one turn without a forest chop is pretty simple (only 100H IIRC). It seems like saving 1 forest for this would be better than trying to time everything perfectly so that you can slip into Slavery just as you leave GA #2. Of course, if you need Slavery for more than whipping executives between GA #2 and #3, then Slavery starts to make more sense.

I can't remember if you're going Sushi -> Mining or Mining->Sushi. I have always preferred the latter.

EDIT: xpost with LC

 

[Fish Man]

Are you guys doing this on settler? Because on settler difficulty, I think cost of all techs is reduced by 40% or more, and also huts can give settlers and workers, essentially giving a huge boost throughout the game. Otherwise, I don't see how such a lofty goal is possible.

 

[Dazzle]

Are you guys doing this on settler? Otherwise, I don't see how such a lofty goal is possible.

The clue is in the title....Deity

 

[Bandobras Took]

Are you guys doing this on settler? Because on settler difficulty, I think cost of all techs is reduced by 40% or more, and also huts can give settlers and workers, essentially giving a huge boost throughout the game. Otherwise, I don't see how such a lofty goal is possible.

The whole point of this thread is to show people how it's possible.

And if you look at some of the turn set writeups, you'll see that the level of planning that goes into the game is more than I put into my yearly budget.

 

[Anysense]

Are you guys doing this on settler? Because on settler difficulty, I think cost of all techs is reduced by 40% or more, and also huts can give settlers and workers, essentially giving a huge boost throughout the game. Otherwise, I don't see how such a lofty goal is possible.

Of course it's difficult, that is why it takes so much time. WastinTime will probably become a twelve year veteran before he finished this game.

 

[elmurcis]

Just brainstorming
Start of decay for units @ turn 21 (makes sense as Mara speed 2x cost for units.... but 3x for settler - why not 30 turns for them, whyyy? ).. Losing what..2%/turn? So Settler whip "sucks" (as more invested hammers-->> more lost from decay, right?), regular Settler whip would show ~400 hammer in production bar (-8 hammer/turn.. or -7 after dropping below 400 but above 350? huh, will need to get clear idea about this for my own regular games too )..

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Are you guys doing this on settler?

Actually it's Deity - players like WT leverage the tech speed etc of the AI to accelerate in ways you just can't do at lower levels.

 

[LowtherCastle]

And if you look at some of the turn set writeups, you'll see that the level of planning that goes into the game is more than I put into my yearly budget.

Not me.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Just brainstorming
Start of decay for units @ turn 21 (makes sense as Mara speed 2x cost for units.... but 3x for settler - why not 30 turns for them, whyyy? ).. Losing what..2%/turn? So Settler whip "sucks" (as more invested hammers-->> more lost from decay, right?), regular Settler whip would show ~400 hammer in production bar (-8 hammer/turn.. or -7 after dropping below 400 but above 350? huh, will need to get clear idea about this for my own regular games too )..

Sees like maybe a great idea! Doesn't matter how many hammers are lost as long as the exec is done in 1 turn. Sometimes one has to think in terms of excess. Just think how many hammers are lost the turn after WT finishes...

 

[WastinTime]

Are you guys doing this on settler? Because on settler difficulty, I think cost of all techs is reduced by 40% or more, and also huts can give settlers and workers, essentially giving a huge boost throughout the game. Otherwise, I don't see how such a lofty goal is possible.

BC space has already been done on settler. This is Deity.

I can't remember if you're going Sushi -> Mining or Mining->Sushi

Yea, Mining, Sushi

Seems like even island cities could produce some chain OFs with Mining, all carefully timed to fit into the exec plan

Maybe I can do that for sushi exec spread, but for the first Corp, Mining, usually the city that just got mining spread has to immediately build an exec, so it hasn't had any time to prep mining-boosted OF. And can't do slavery OF unless I save up from 30-40 turns back like I said.
Between mining and sushi, my cities will be wanting to complete factory/coal plant so I can't use those builds to try and get a chain of max OF of organic hammers. (Coal Plant can't be started until the factory is done.)

@elmurcis: so you checked settlers decay at turn 21 just like military? Grrr. I feel like a good option will present itself. I'll put this on the back burner.

 

[WastinTime]

Losing what..2%/turn?

Oh, so you're saying pick something smaller so I only lose ~4 hpt instead of 8 and just take the 40-60 hammer loss. I'm worried I wouldn't have enough OF left to finish the exec in 1 turn. I'll probably just have to do 10 or more turns of wealth/research

 

[LowtherCastle]

Oh, so you're saying pick something smaller so I only lose ~4 hpt instead of 8 and just take the 40-60 hammer loss. I'm worried I wouldn't have enough OF left to finish the exec in 1 turn. I'll probably just have to do 10 or more turns of wealth/research

Exactly. Combo. All depends on what the city has to build. IF you have the whip OF anyway, why build a settler just to generate OF, unless you need the settler.

 

[elmurcis]

Back from testing with some serious correction. Settlers can be the way to get whip OF as... actual decay rate is 1% (rounded up) not 2% (is this still true for normal speed?). And after whip, production bar shows 300+max whip (so it was 389 with regular whip during test). And that is -4 hammer/turn so after 10 turns its +49 hammers left.. No idea if this changes anything but... this was useful anyway

 

[WastinTime]

Thx for the testing. Maybe that's the way to go cus, yes LC, I always need the settlers. Lots of mining/seafood to settle at this exact time in the game.

 

[WastinTime]

tl;dr; I don't expect anyone to read this whole post. It's just my city notes and near term plans.
I'll try to bold the more interesting bits.

Peace with Linc or kill him? Peace. No sense letting warweariness build up.

Research
I will get Construction in 2t. ~T180 (build some cats)
I was going to race to Guilds for Knights, but not one person has HBR, so instead, Engineering.
That makes my Trebs (and everyone else) move 3 on roads, so it's almost like a knight's movement. Well, not really.
I can attack with much cheaper swords/Xbows which move the same speed as the trebs and even chariots will do OK behind trebs.
Should be a very different mix of units than I normally use. Esp. the Xbows but I can't have a stack of Axes murder my swords/Trebs.

But first, I have to make sure that I'm confident I can get Feudal, guilds, banking before T220. Merc is needed for the GPfarms.
At my current rate, I need 30 turns of research. a.k.a. 12,000 more gold.
update: after some study, I think I'll find a way to make it, but it won't be easy.
update2: Now I'm thinking I don't want to risk late Banking/Merc, and what if I can get Engineering free from the AI? As much as I'd like 3 moves on roads, I don't really 'need' Eng until I'm ready to bulb Chem. I think I have to try to get it free.

btw, Liz is almost friendly, so that could be the way to get CoL, Philo, Calendar, etc.
If I DoW Peter, I get -1 with Liz, but I might be able to liberate one or two of his cities to Liz (it would need to be closer to her capital than his.) Maybe I can move Peter's capital

War
I'm going to postpone the war on Peter. I'll explore Liz/Peter for now. Peter is the least likely to ever get Elephants or Longbows.
I may attack Willy next just because he is close. The northern cities I kept are like -18gpt maintenence.
He also has quite a few forests.
Darius would be the other option. Both these guys have the center of the map with the rivers(levees some day). Lots of good space parts cities.
He's the next closest after Willy.
Darius also has Calendar and could do MoM for me, so maybe he gets to live another 30 turns or so.
But I'll set up a galley chain (only 6 galleys needed--which I already have). This will allow me to move 2 units to the other side of the world if I want to do Liz or Peter. I might need to extract a wonder like Mids/Parthenon/MoM from Liz with a surgical strike.

Cities
I'm identifying the GPfarms and counting exactly how much pop they need...meaning exactly how many more whips they can do.
Other cities, I'm making sure I have a schedule to put OF into Moai every. single. turn.
Same with ToA for inland cities.
Also planning to erase anger in several cities. That takes planning to do them all at the same time.

City food listed below (e.g. +8f) does not count possible grass farms.

Preparing GPfarms...
It's turn 178. I secretly wanted my GP farms ready for a possible T210 GAge, but after some study, I don't think I can grow fast enough to be ready. I think I've been saying 220.
So, 42 turns to grow to size 10-ish.
Note it takes about 300 food to grow from size 4 to size 10. So, for example, a size 6 city can only 2-whip one last time T190 if it expects to be size 10 by T220.
2-seafood islands will have to grow to size 8 or ideally 9 (update: almost none of my islands will make it to GPfarm size in time. This might be something to do better on next time)

Cuzco
rax + HE : This is unusual for me. Heroic Epic in the capital, but I'm not interested in the usual Oxford, etc. Can't deny the hammer count here. Esp after Bureau.
@ size 10 (not using corn--not starving) +101hpt

Hamburg +7f
size 9 with 48f, it can do 900gpp, might starve 1. update: no gpfarm here
whip forge
whip xbow-> ToA

Oporto +8f
whip xbow-> ToA

Lisbon +14f
massive anger, no other failgold.
? whip wb. no
After Moai, Reset anger? probably not.
build library, GLib by T220.
Grow to size 13 (or 14? for better trade rts?)
1200 + 4200gpp

New York (oracle, glh) +10f work merchants.
already prepped a library and it has 146gpp, so no anger reset here.
or should I reset it? Would allow GE to be born first. Final answer, no.
probably wb first (1t) unless not needed yet.
? 2-whip forge (for happiness). No
3 whip library it's 89/270. OF T181 Moai
then size 12+ (needs to finish partial farm)(2nd farm--less urgent)
Moai finish here? No. No forests, too much anger to whip it.
300 + 900 + 4800gpp

Chicago +5
whip galley in 3t.
182 Moai
whip workboat
184 Moai
anger reset

Paris +8 but with gold
size 9, ideally 10 with 68food
2100gpp

Berlin +5 (GE)
whip sword
Mids

Thess +5f
steal mine
129 whip chariot -> ToA
maybe whip Q. Depends on if I can ?reset anger?. I'm at 47% culture and I need 51%.

Constantinople +8f
size 9
double check anger reset (in an AI city who is still alive) when I only have 35% culture . update: checked the code--city WILL lose pop, possibly buildings and be in (reduced) revolt turns.
So I have to be gentle with this city...sorta
prep xbow 5h
grow to size 6 (work 2 mines) to prep a sword for 1-whip
184 whip sword
185 ToA
186 2-whip xbow
187 ToA
2400 gpp

Orleans 14f (gold)
1500 + 5400gpp
Library, NE, Parthenon, MoM (ideally I capture Parth and MoM)

Munich +8f (needs anger reset)
184 whip lighthouse
185 Moai
maybe whip a wb or sword to finish Moai, then
reset anger

Adrian +8f (needs anger reset. I'm at 62% culture, so 1t revolt, but no loss of population or buildings )
whip like hell
179 whip xbow
180 Moai
whip lh
186 Moai

Istanbul
wealth
183 whip xbow
184 chop moai
finish Moai here ~189?
Then anger reset? Moai is not destroyed, right?

Edirne +13f or more, but has 2 gold, horse and cottages.
2700gpp
2whip forge
grow

Ankara
monastery? or at Boston?

Tiwanaku +9f, size 8 on T210
2whip lh
maybe whip wb, so far the next 3 are ready.
3000gpp

Nicaea (gemscity)
steal farmdye
library maybe 6->4 whip it much later.

Boston
library -> ToA
Paya -- for Pacifism. Only complete if we can't get Philo in trade.

Machu P +10f (needs wb 185 and 194) size 8 on 225.
Needs a worker to mine copper T185-196, then chop 198-207
whip Terrace now
build culture
no whip lighthouse (use copper)

Atlanta
has colossus
186 whip lh
187 Moai
At size 6, with 68food. Here's a strange case where made a GPfarm out of a size 6 city!!
And it's not going early either. 1800gpp
If I don't get the Deer tile, I plan to run 1 corn and 5 sci (at -4f)

CuzcoN
Work the gold a bit (6t?) to get Terrace with half food. Take corn when cuzco at size 7
Could be size 9 by T220. Can it be size 10? that might be better for getting 3600gpp
Wow, that's a recently settled, surprise GPfarm.
3600 gpp

SouthEastIsle size 8 after 235+
whip wb
Terrace
culture
lighthouse

Huamanga (needs wb now--Vilcas will do it. Needs another 208)
build culture

Vilcas
whip wb
OF into Terrace.
build culture (30t)
in 12t whip Terrace.
16t later size 2

Vilcabamba (needs wb 185 and 195) size 8 ~224
terrace(1)
build culture(6)
chop 2 into lighthouse

Vitcos
whip Terrace when chop comes in

Andahuay.. (size 8 on T230)
build culture 10t
1whip Terrace

Ica, size 8 on 236
wb to Vilcabamba
chop/whip Terrace in 16 turns
Needs wb in 31 turns.

Conclusion:
Looks like my islands were mostly not able to set up in time for my new, aggressive schedule. Couldn't find enough with either the 2 forests or both seafood in 1st ring.
I was just settling them now to get them down before HangingGardens.
Options:
- run the GAge later. Seems like a bad idea.
- Use mostly inland cities for GP farms. This could be the better way even if the islands were ready. Islands will be able to run 2f5c water tiles with Colossus + GAge + FIN. Islands also mostly need my religion spread.

 

[Pangaea]

Can I get a cookie for reading that?

 

[soundjata]

Then anger reset? Moai is not destroyed, right?

iirc it is destroyed but don't take my word on this


edit damn you Pangaea