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Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Ironworks failgold

    This should cover me for 2 of the more expensive turns (spreading 2 corps).
    I'll have to chop it when I'm back in OrgRel.

    The trick is:
    I have to put failgold in one city before Amsterdam (the IW city) and one city after it is processed.
    Here's what happens:
    When Amsterdam is processed and IW completes, the cities after it give failgold the same turn.
    Then, next turn, eariler cities flush their failgold.

    So that covers 2 turns of strike.

    P.S. I'll probably accomplish the failgold by putting 1 turn + 1 chop into IW. Or maybe just one whip overflow.
    Just need about 125 base-h (for 250h into IW, 250g fail)
     
  2. intutama

    intutama Warlord

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  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Nice catch! You can see how my strategy has adapted. I suppose back when I wrote that, I didn't have Sports League for a Golden Age, and I would have probably had to stick with Pacifism much longer.
     
  4. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    City build plans for T275-290

    (attempting 10+ turns of bureau, caste when starting strike. Goal: Medicine and AssemLine)
    (remember to use caste +1 hammers)
    Assume Strike T278
    Assume 'Turn S'=Sushi T284

    Cuzco +25% and +75%, 3 execs, size 12
    275 cat, cat, cat, explorers
    (raise base-h to ~88)
    S+0 exec
    S+1 exec
    S+2 exec
    explorer
    S+4 exec

    Hamburg 25%, 80 base, needs plains-wkshp or some mine-railroads
    cat, cat, cat (base 40-45 OF)
    S+1 exec, chop 60

    N Cuzco 22 base-h for 3t on cats
    cat, cat, cat (with 22 base)
    whip2 forge (remove)
    S+0: resolve forge
    S+1:

    GiftWestCuzco (was stealing here) no budda
    grow
    chop1 into forge
    whip forge1 (about 78 OF)
    T+4 chop1 exec, might need some mining hammers

    Angora, 2 execs
    chop 4

    Oporto (no budda)
    settler
    mining exec

    Lisbon
    mining exec
    cat, whip cat

    Chicago
    cat, whip cat
    277 forge
    278 whip2 settler
    m exec

    Paris - grow - 3 island mining execs
    cat, whip cat
    prep settler
    whip/remove settler

    Berlin
    cat, cat, cat (32 baseh OF)
    research
    exec chop74

    Thess
    whip forge
    m exec
    whip2 colesseum (remove?)
    s exec

    Constant,
    cat, cat, cat (30 OF)
    exec chop74

    Orleans
    cat, cat, cat

    Munich (needs MP), has full mining hammers
    cat, cat, cat
    prep settler 1t
    whip settler

    Adrian
    cat, cat, cat
    research
    eventually, prep settler
    whip2 settler

    Istanbul
    cat
    m exec
    research
    s exec, island chop?

    Ankara
    prep settler
    whip2 settler
    exec, no chop

    Edirne
    m exec
    cat, whip cat (80 base OF)
    (could send execs to the coast)
    exec chop

    Tiwanaku
    prep wb
    277: forge2
    278: whip wb, remove
    (resolve later for 177? strike:gold:)

    Gems
    m exec
    cat, whip cat (80h OF)
    s exec chop 90

    Boston, grow
    cat, whip cat (80 base OF)
    no 2nd cat
    m exec, chop 90

    Machu, N SeafoodIsle size 14
    275 prep wb
    276 prep settler?
    277 ?whip forge? (loses +3 trade routes for 1 turn)
    278 whip wb-remove, ?and whip2 settler-remove, ?whip2 forge
    resolve wb later for 144 ? strike:gold:

    Seattle
    278 whip wb-remove
    resolve later for 70 strike:gold:

    Atlanta
    cat, cat, cat
    T278 whip coles2
    m exec
    wbs?

    S SeafoodIsle
    tri, tri, wb (watch out for decay. it's 2h now)
    T277 whip forge2
    T278 whip wb1-remove, whip settler-remove
    later= 200+? strike :gold:

    SE Isle, HorseSushi, no budda
    prep settler
    ?prep tri?
    forge2
    wb1, tri1, settler2

    Southport

    4/60 wb
    ?? Tri
    forge2
    wb1, tri
    resolve wb for strike :gold:

    Ica
    prep wb
    whip forge, wb
    strike :gold:

    Ollan...
    prep forge 1t
    prep wb
    277 whip1 forge
    278 whip wb-remove
    small strike :gold:

    Moscow
    whip forge1
    prep settler
    prep tri
    whip2 settler, whip tri
    prep colesseum
    colesseum2


    Ecbatana
    irrigate corn?
    work cottage (commerce stuff)
    cat, cat, cat

    Pasar
    cat
    whip1 cat
    277 forge1
    exec

    Novgorod (no budda)
    forge2 (work more hammers)
    prep settler
    prep Tri
    whip2 settler, whip tri

    Maastr
    cat, cat, cat (28h base OF)
    S+1 exec, chop 90
    S+2 exec, chop 90

    Susa
    coldwhip cat
    whip settler
    277 IW
    278 whip coless
    research
    exec

    Persep- add food
    cat, cat, settler
    278 whip settler
    exec

    LA
    forge
    wb
    whip forge2
    whip wb
    strike :gold:
    galley1

    Amsterdam, no execs (overflow into IW), 3 chops, 2 rr
    IW
    276 IW, chop 3
    277 prep levee
    278 IW, whip/remove levee
    279 levee
    IW

    SanFran
    tri, wb, whip tri
    whip forge2, whip/remove wb?
    exec
    resolve wb strike:gold:

    Washington
    prep forge
    prep settler
    277 whip forge
    whip settler
    exec

    Hague
    cat, whip cat, cat,
    278 whip temple2, whip/remove library
    279 IW
    s exec

    Utrecht, 2 execs
    exec
    whip coles2
    exec
    whip2 elephant

    Canterbury
    coless
    exec

    Rotterdam
    forge
    wealth
    277 whip2 forge
    278 exec, whip/remove buddha, whip/remove hindu

    Vilcas, Vilcamba, Huamanga, Corihua..., no budda
    forge
    wb
    whip2 forge
    whip wb
    strike:gold:

    Kumbi
    coless
    whip col
    exec
    culture/terrace

    Middleburg
    exec
    wealth

    Tarsus
    278 whip buddha

    Delft (give away, recap -- twice)
    chop2 forge
    chop2 exec

    Nijmegen
    chop2

    Philly, workshop
    wealth
    277 forge2
    exec

    York
    library 67
    settler
    277 whip2 exec
    278 whip/remove library, whip2 settler
    279 exec
    later...
    library
    exec for islands

    Nico
    cat, whip cat
    forge
    278 whip forge

    Warwick
    prep tri, whip tri,
    277 forge2
    278 research, whip/remove buddha
    ...
    exec

    Hastings
    prep settler
    277 coles2
    278 exec, whip/remove settler
    culture
    later...settler
    exec

    Andahua...
    278 whip/remove hindu

    Portland
    forge
    276 chop exec
    278 whip/remove buddha

    Gao
    Niani, no buddha
    coldwhip wb

    Djenne
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  5. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Turnset 275 - 278 - 284

    T275
    tomorrow...

    Thought I was ready to play, but I'm considering re-doing the city build plans (see next post.)

    I'll play tomorrow...
    I'm just gonna re-post the new build plans instead of editing and start a new Turnset Report.

    END.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I need to make one more pass thru my city planning. I've been trying to squeeze in as many cats and cat whips as possible. I feel the pressure to complete all my war efforts in less than 20 turns, and I'd need 80 quechua and cats to do that.

    But to relieve that pressure, and allow my transports and army to survive longer, I realized I can build triremes. They are like a lightning rod for (lightning) STRIKE mode.

    With cats, I have to whip them on or before T276 in order to build a 2nd cat with the overflow on 277 because T278 is the turn I take back iron and start strike.

    With triremes, I can whip them as late as T278 and build them with overflow on T279 because I won't have Astronomy. Even tho I can't whip after T278, I can still build even more triremes with normal hammers.

    :think: Actually, if I thought my non-slavery trireme production could keep up with the strike monster, I wouldn't have to whip many cats or tri's now. Just those needed for gold overflow or execs.

    I should make another pass thru the build plan after letting that idea sink in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  7. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    When do Galleons die during STRIKE? At 120:hammers: they're the cheapest unit you can build late game as you're never going to connect Oil. Will Galleons in neutral/ennely territory die before your workers?
     
  8. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Nope. I've been updated my mistakes and I'm maintaining the post: order of units dying to strike.
    Galleons die along with all the other transports. Before most (non-quechua, non-siege) military units...except for knights :mad: for some annoying reason.
     
  9. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    Well this means that once your whole army is gone, galleons get disbanded before workers in your culture, which is good, no?

    Btw, does maintenance exceed your total commerce already?
     
  10. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    After sinking in... I realized...
    I don't have to wait til T278 to start strike.

    I was only doing that to try to get more cats out. How early can I start strike? :think: It's 275 now. I wish I has stopped earlier to plan this.
    However, I couldn't prep too many things for whipping because I needed every hammer to squeeze out Communism T274, but once I got there, I should have prepped more last turn.

    Could I get by with just prepping this turn (275) and doing final whips and start strike T276? That could get me sushi 1-2t earlier than I expected :drool:

    I think T277 will be best. Aim for 283 sushi.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  11. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    City build plans for T275-290 (version 2)
    This edited plan eliminates any extra cats/tri's I was building. Preserves as much population as possible.

    (attempting 10+ turns of bureau, caste when starting strike. Goal: Medicine and AssemLine)
    (remember to use caste +1 hammers)
    Assume Strike T277
    Assume 'Turn S'=Sushi T284

    Cuzco +25% and +75%, no whipping
    275 cat, cat, explorers
    (raise base-h to ~88)
    S+0 exec
    S+1 exec
    S+2 exec
    explorer
    S+4 exec

    Hamburg 25%
    cat,
    whip cat
    research
    S+1 exec, chop 60

    N Cuzco 22 base-h for 3t on cats
    forge
    wealth
    whip2 forge
    S+1: exec

    WestCuzco
    wealth
    whip/rem spy
    resolve spy for strike:gold:
    sExec, chop1

    Angora, 2 execs
    chop 4

    Oporto (no budda)
    settler
    mining exec

    Lisbon
    mining exec

    Chicago
    prep wb
    complete forge
    research, whip/remove settler, whip/remove wb
    278 m exec
    could make an island mExec or strike gold.

    Paris - grow - 3 island mining execs
    prep tri
    prep settler
    whip/remove settler, whip tri
    settler
    mExec

    Berlin
    library
    wealth
    whip/remove lib
    s exec

    Thess
    forge
    m exec
    whip2 colesseum remove?
    s exec

    Constant,
    cat, cat
    research
    exec chop74

    Orleans

    Munich
    prep settler
    wealth
    whip2 settler
    s exec

    Adrian
    prep settler 2t
    whip2 settler

    Istanbul
    cat
    m exec, chop
    research, whip/remove wb for strike
    s exec, island chop?

    Ankara
    wealth
    whip2 settler
    exec, no chop

    Edirne
    m exec
    wealth or prep?
    (could send execs to the coast)
    exec chop

    Tiwanaku
    prep wb
    276: forge2
    277: whip/rem wb, whip/remove settler
    (resolve later for 177? strike:gold:)

    Gems
    m exec
    wealth
    s exec chop 90

    Boston, MAX hammers
    musket 46
    whip barracks
    277 whip musket
    m exec

    Machu size 14
    275 prep wb
    whip forge (loses +3 trade routes for 1 turn)
    whip wb-remove
    resolve wb later for 144 ? strike:gold:

    N SeafoodIsle size 14
    275 prep tri
    whip forge (loses +3 trade routes for 1 turn)
    whip wb-remove, whip/rem tri
    resolve tri+wb later for strike:gold:

    Seattle
    277 whip wb-remove
    resolve later for 70 strike:gold:

    Atlanta
    wb
    wb
    whip coles2, whip wb?
    m exec

    S SeafoodIsle
    wb (watch out for decay. it's 2h now)
    T276 whip forge2
    T277 whip wb1-remove, whip settler-remove
    later= 200+? strike :gold:

    SE Isle, no budda
    prep tri
    forge2
    wb1, tri1, settler2
    strike:gold:

    HorseSushi, no budda

    prep settler
    forge2
    wb1, settler2
    strike:gold:

    Southport

    wb
    forge2
    wb1
    resolve wb for strike :gold:

    Ica
    prep wb
    whip forge,
    wb1
    strike :gold:

    Ollan...
    prep forge 1t
    prep wb
    277 whip1 forge

    Moscow
    whip forge1
    prep settler
    whip2 settler

    Ecbatana
    settler
    277 whip/rem settler
    settler
    s exec

    Pasar
    wealth
    277 forge1
    278 exec

    Novgorod (no budda)
    forge2 (work more hammers)
    prep settler
    whip2 settler

    Maastr
    cat,
    whip cat
    research
    S+1 exec, chop 90
    S+2 exec, chop 90

    Susa
    settler 74
    whip settler
    277 IW, whip/rem coless
    research
    exec

    Persep- add food
    wealth
    settler
    277 whip settler
    exec

    LA
    forge
    wb
    whip forge2, whip/rem wb
    strike :gold:
    galley1

    Amsterdam, no execs (overflow into IW), 3 chops, 2 rr
    levee 133
    276 MM, IW, chop 3
    277 whip levee
    IW

    SanFran
    tri, wb,
    277 whip forge2, whip/remove wb and tri
    exec
    tri
    resolve wb strike:gold:

    Vitcos
    mm
    wealth
    wb
    whip lh
    research
    (future whip forge, whip wb for gold)

    Washington
    prep settler 2t
    277 whip settler
    exec
    forge

    Hague
    prep settler
    whip/rem temple2, whip/remove library, whip settler
    279 IW
    temple
    s exec
    library
    s exec

    Utrecht, 2 execs
    exec
    wealth
    whip coles2
    s exec
    whip2 elephant

    Canterbury
    coless
    exec
    whip terrace

    Rotterdam
    forge
    wealth
    277 whip2 forge
    278 exec, whip/remove buddha, whip/remove hindu

    Vilcas, Vilcamba, Huamanga, Corihua..., no budda
    forge
    wb
    whip2 forge, whip/rem wb
    wb
    strike:gold:

    Kumbi
    coless
    whip col
    exec
    culture/terrace

    Middleburg
    exec
    wealth

    Tarsus
    278 whip buddha

    Delft (give away, recap -- twice)
    chop2 exec

    Nijmegen
    chop2

    Philly, workshop
    wealth
    278 forge2
    exec

    York
    library 67
    settler
    277 whip2 exec, whip/remove library, whip/rem settler
    settler
    279 exec
    later...
    library
    exec for islands

    Nico
    terrace
    wealth
    whip terrace
    forge

    Warwick
    prep galley, whip galley
    277 forge2
    278 research, whip/remove buddha
    ...
    exec

    Hastings
    prep settler
    277 coles2, whip/remove settler
    278 exec
    culture
    later...settler
    exec

    Andahua...
    278 whip/remove hindu

    Portland
    forge
    276 chop exec
    278 whip/remove buddha

    Gao
    settler
    whip settler

    Niani, no buddha
    wb, whip wb

    Djenne
    coless
    whip col
    exec
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  12. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Messages:
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    Re. disband mechanics, was just looking at the C++ code I think this is the base SDK code so maybe 3.17 or something. The HOF mod may follow different rules. No promises about whether it's right or not, especially as I can't get my game to disband settlers, even though the algorithm suggests they should be susceptible just like other units, which makes me doubt my reading of the code.

    Anyway here's how (I think) it goes:
    • Examine all the player's units, except these 3 groups which are never disbanded
      1. Units with cargo (i.e. their cargo goes first)
      2. Units with the 'golden age' flag (I guess this means great people)
      3. The last(?) military unit in a city
    • For each unit, calculate a score representing their 'importance not to be disbanded' (see below)
    • Disband the one scoring lowest, i.e. least 'important'.
    • Repeat until the required number of units for this turn of strike have been disbanded.
    Don't-disband-importance score calculation

    Step A. Base
    • Start with a base score of 10,000.
    • Add a random number from 1 to 1,000. (This random bit probably explains why tests are never totally conclusive)
    Step B. Additive adjustments
    • Add [hammer cost * 5]. E.g. for warrior add 75. For cannon add 500.
    • Add [experience * 20]. E.g. XP 12 unit, add 120.
    • Add [promotion level * 100]. E.g. combat 3 unit, add 300.
    Note: These increments are usually not even going to be as much as the random factor of up to 1000, and always small compared to the base 10,000. E.g. take two defensive units, early game archer (125) vs late-game machine gun (600) - that's a difference of 475.
    An unpromoted unit (0) vs a very heavily promoted one, say 50XP level 7 (1700) starts to be worth considering it I guess, but still mainly only as a tiebreaker between same-type units. The multiplicative factors below are much more important.

    Step C. General multiplicative factors
    • If the unit is in a city and will defend when attacked, double the score so far.
      (So units defending cities are safer from disband. Effectively adding another 10,000 at least, putting a few hundred for hammer cost into perspective.)
    • If the unit is in home territory, treble the score yet again. As we knew already, units outside borders are at more risk.
    Note: So the difference between a fighting unit in a city and a unit outside our borders is a factor of 6 (2x3). This is significant when compared to the unit-type factors below, and should easily outweigh the unit type in many cases.

    (There is also something called 'unit extra cost' which never seems to be used anywhere else in the code except it says it's 'exposed to python', so perhaps something just for mods to use? If the unit has an 'extra cost' the entire score is divided by it. So units with this 'extra cost' would in theory much more likely to be disbanded.)

    Step D. Unit-type-specific multiplicative factors
    Finally the most important factor. In the code this test is against the unit AI script, so I thought we might be able to trick it by setting our units to do something odd, but no luck, our units seem to just have their basic AI set for life (e.g. archers are defenders and that's it, even if we set them to 'explore').
    Code:
    EXPLORE_SEA       25      (caravels basically. Triremes are ASSAULT_SEA)
    SETTLE            20  
    Work boats        18
    EXPLORE           15      (explorers and scouts.)
    SPY               12    
    WORKER            10
    MISSIONARY        8       Includes execs
    DEFENDy scripts   6       Land defenders
    Misc sea scripts  5       (ASSAULT_SEA, SETTLER_SEA, MISSIONARY_SEA, SPY_SEA, CARRIER_SEA)
    ICBM              4
    Air defenders     3
    Land attackers    2       (ATTACK, ATTACK_CITY, COLLATERAL, PILLAGE, RESERVE, COUNTER)
    Others            1
    Note: Execs are kind of in the middle (x8). Basically all the military stuff scores lower in this part, so long as we don't make the system think they're defending our cities.
    OK that's it. :D Here's the original code:
    Spoiler Disband C++ :

    Code:
    void CvPlayer::disbandUnit(bool bAnnounce)
    {
        CvUnit* pLoopUnit;
        CvUnit* pBestUnit;
        wchar szBuffer[1024];
        int iValue;
        int iBestValue;
        int iLoop;
    
        iBestValue = MAX_INT;
        pBestUnit = NULL;
    
        for(pLoopUnit = firstUnit(&iLoop); pLoopUnit != NULL; pLoopUnit = nextUnit(&iLoop))
        {
            if (!(pLoopUnit->hasCargo()))
            {
                if (!(pLoopUnit->isGoldenAge()))
                {
                    if (!(pLoopUnit->isMilitaryHappiness()) || !(pLoopUnit->plot()->isCity()) || (pLoopUnit->plot()->plotCount(PUF_isMilitaryHappiness, -1, -1, getID()) > 1))
                    {
                        iValue = (10000 + GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(1000, "Disband Unit"));
    
                        iValue += (GC.getUnitInfo(pLoopUnit->getUnitType()).getProductionCost() * 5);
    
                        iValue += (pLoopUnit->getExperience() * 20);
                        iValue += (pLoopUnit->getLevel() * 100);
    
                        if (pLoopUnit->canDefend() && pLoopUnit->plot()->isCity())
                        {
                            iValue *= 2;
                        }
    
                        if (pLoopUnit->plot()->getTeam() == pLoopUnit->getTeam())
                        {
                            iValue *= 3;
                        }
    
                        switch (pLoopUnit->AI_getUnitAIType())
                        {
                        case UNITAI_UNKNOWN:
                        case UNITAI_ANIMAL:
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_SETTLE:
                            iValue *= 20;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_WORKER:
                            iValue *= 10;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_ATTACK:
                        case UNITAI_ATTACK_CITY:
                        case UNITAI_COLLATERAL:
                        case UNITAI_PILLAGE:
                        case UNITAI_RESERVE:
                        case UNITAI_COUNTER:
                            iValue *= 2;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE:
                        case UNITAI_CITY_COUNTER:
                        case UNITAI_CITY_SPECIAL:
                            iValue *= 6;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_EXPLORE:
                            iValue *= 15;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_MISSIONARY:
                            iValue *= 8;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_PROPHET:
                        case UNITAI_ARTIST:
                        case UNITAI_SCIENTIST:
                        case UNITAI_MERCHANT:
                        case UNITAI_ENGINEER:
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_SPY:
                            iValue *= 12;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_ICBM:
                            iValue *= 4;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_WORKER_SEA:
                            iValue *= 18;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_ATTACK_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_RESERVE_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_ESCORT_SEA:
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_EXPLORE_SEA:
                            iValue *= 25;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_ASSAULT_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_SETTLER_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_MISSIONARY_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_SPY_SEA:
                        case UNITAI_CARRIER_SEA:
                            iValue *= 5;
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_ATTACK_AIR:
                            break;
    
                        case UNITAI_DEFENSE_AIR:
                        case UNITAI_CARRIER_AIR:
                            iValue *= 3;
                            break;
    
                        default:
                            FAssert(false);
                            break;
                        }
    
                        if (GC.getUnitInfo(pLoopUnit->getUnitType()).getExtraCost() > 0)
                        {
                            iValue /= (GC.getUnitInfo(pLoopUnit->getUnitType()).getExtraCost() + 1);
                        }
    
                        if (iValue < iBestValue)
                        {
                            iBestValue = iValue;
                            pBestUnit = pLoopUnit;
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    
        if (pBestUnit != NULL)
        {
            swprintf(szBuffer, gDLL->getText("TXT_KEY_MISC_UNIT_DISBANDED_NO_MONEY", pBestUnit->getNameKey()).GetCString());
            gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->addMessage(getID(), false, GC.getDefineINT("EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME"), szBuffer, "AS2D_UNITDISBANDED", MESSAGE_TYPE_MINOR_EVENT, GC.getUnitInfo(pBestUnit->getUnitType()).getButton(), (ColorTypes)GC.getInfoTypeForString("COLOR_RED"), pBestUnit->getX_INLINE(), pBestUnit->getY_INLINE(), true, true);
    
            FAssert(!(pBestUnit->isGoldenAge()));
    
            pBestUnit->kill(false);
        }
    }
    Possible takeaways:
    1. The unit's general type (defence, attack etc) is far more important than the generation/hammer cost (longbow vs archer etc), since it's processed multiplicatively and not via a quite small addition.
    2. Even placement of units easily outweighs hammer cost difference for the same reason. E.g. an axe defending a city will stay in preference to a tank out in battle somewhere..
    3. Execs (factor 8) are fairly safe, so long as sacrificial units are taken out of cities, and ideally outside borders, so as to avoid location multipliers making them more important than the the x8 of the exec. Edit: actually the exec itself might often be up to x24 for inside borders too. The ones crossing the sea are probably most at risk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Thx Kid R. As you suspected, that code is old and is missing this line:

    if (!(pLoopUnit->isGoldenAge()))
    {
    if (pLoopUnit->getUnitInfo().getProductionCost() > 0)
    {
    if (!(pLoopUnit->isMilitaryHappiness())​


    Oddly a settler has Cost=0 which is why it is never disbanded.
    I believe the reason it is 0 is because the cost is calculated based on Era.
    This may or may not be a bug, but the result is settlers never get disbanded. And I used that 'feature' to save my transports.

    clever idea. Shame that didn't work.
    The most recent XML has Trireme's default to ATTACK_SEA (not ASSAULT_SEA)
    That makes it 0 (instead of 5) on your list which is why triremes die first.
    Also explains why caravels are last to die.

    Knights are ATTACK, so that's why they die early-ish

    More important research here
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  14. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Ah cool - I did think it would be odd if you weren't on top of it, but started reading the code and couldn't stop :crazyeye:
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    You did a fantastic explanation of the ai scripts, and why there's randomness in test results. I had not looked that closely at exactly why certain units are picked because sometimes testing is both easier and more accurate. For example, reading that code, you'd think settlers will disband. Thanks again!
     
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  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    One last brainstorm before I play.
    I'm pretty confident that I want to switch to slavery, caste, FreeRel on T277 (after whipping)

    But what is stopping me from starting strike --without civics changes-- on T276? or even now-- on T275? I think the short answer is exec spread gold.
    But maybe I can get T277 exec gold from stealing, conquest, or other? which means strike could then start 276.

    How much would my bpt change?
    First, let's see what the difference is in bpt, is it worth the effort to move strike earlier:

    no strike
    With all my cities prepping for whips instead of building wealth rt now, my bpt has plummeted. If I give away most of my mining resources, I can maybe pull off 1200bpt and still have 250g next turn for execs.

    strike

    I'm prepping builds here, so I can't build much research, maybe 100. All my other bpt comes from working a couple scientists, but mostly citizens since I'm not in caste yet.
    Estimate: also about 1200

    That makes sense, with everyone building stuff to whip and very little build research, strike is not ready to pay off.
    With caste/scientists and free religion on T277 we'll see a huge jump even if all cities are whipping then.

    Moving on.
     
  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Turnset 275 - 277 - 284

    T275

    Gift Houston to Mansa (for war success)
    DoW, kill a spear, recapture Houston.

    Gift the Iron, copper, coal, gold I have now that deals with Mansa are cancelled.

    T276

    Vicky
    attacks my Tri with her Tri and loses.
    One catapult progress is sabotaged.

    Biology (no National Park planned. I'll just admire all my farms.)

    Not much else should happen this turn. Just adjusting worked tiles and builds. I'll stick to my 1 turn per day and not roll this turn today. I believe I'll be entering strike mode tomorrow! next turn.

    I'll be adding only about 1150:science: this turn. I'll report my bpt each turn. At my peak, when I had thousands of gold to keep the slider at 100%, I was doing ~3000bpt. That's how I got Communism in only 5t on T274.
    Ideally, I would have had a couple more thousand :gold: to keep the tech pace, but instead it will be, fortunately, just 3 turns (274-276) at this low rate of ~1200bpt. The drop comes from not only being out of money, but also not building wealth like I did almost everywhere on the push to Communism.

    T277
    :band: Prepare to enter an alternate reality [pimp]

    Up is down, left is right.

    I'm going about -1800:gold: this turn and it will put me in strike.

    All Commerce is now worth exactly zero.
    trade routes: zero
    A gold mine is just 4h and zero. worse than a plainshill-Mine (5h)
    Spices is 3food and zero
    water tiles are 2food and zero. like unimproved grass tiles :thumbsdown:

    I whip around 100 population ahead of the ~10t caste window. That will hurt my bpt, but I need to do it. The overflows on those will make ~40 execs and ~2000 failgold (pays for 40 corp spreads)
    The immediate cost is probably close to -600bpt, but each turn I spread 5 mining, I get +200bpt.

    After taking Bureau, Caste, FreeReligion and adjusting work assignments,
    bpt went from 1150 to 2200bpt. Worse than I expected, but keep in mind, I'm building a lot of stuff that I whipped this turn, so there should be another jump next turn. At this rate it would take 11 turns to get to sushi. I've got to cut that to 7 or 8.

    I give away my last 6:gold: to Mansa to hold til I steal it back later.

    T278

    Ah, that's more like it. bpt jumps a bit more than I thought from 2200 to 3000bpt :eek: (after lots of mm)
    -2200gpt

    I steal 254:gold: from the Dutch and wipe them off the map.
    My spy is caught :mad:

    Optics
    I start a caravel or 2? just in case I need some naval power against Liz. My triremes will all die, so no protection for galleys. Also the caravel can move execs around and is almost strike-proof

    If I tried really hard building culture and running artist, I could get whale in one city. But it will be almost obsolete (combustion) by then.

    Gift my last 15:gold: to Mansa

    T279

    95:gold:
    at the start of the turn
    +80 conquest gold
    +55 conquest gold
    +15 conquest gold
    +1 conquest gold
    = 246.
    Pillage sheep +5
    251:gold: :king: just enough for 5 corp spreads (I still had more pillaging available if needed--save that for later.)

    Clever move:
    Since I knew I had a lot of conquest gold coming, I changed my usual Cuzco(HEcity) build (which usually produces ~60 gold) to cannon. Why not, since I'm putting ~500 hammers per turn into it! I still get max hammer OF for next turn gold needs. That cannon will go to Liz.

    :eek: BPT
    jumped again from 3000 to 3600+bpt
    Medicine just dropped to only 6t which I have to believe will now come in 5t (T284:thumbsup:)
    -2600gpt

    give last 1:gold: to Mansa :shifty:

    Give 4 cities to Louis and recapture so I can get him as a vassal and soon take the iron I parked him on.

    T280

    I forgot that I'm spreading towards my first island this turn and I only needed 200:gold: :hammer2: Overshot.

    4000+ bpt
    -3000gpt

    Gift Mansa the stack of gift cities.
    Put my 82:gold: in the bank of Mansa

    T281

    Welcome Hannibal.

    Take Mansa's last 'real' city for 127:gold:
    Steal 566:gold:
    Kill Mansa. Dead

    Louis is now my vassal. Lincoln breaks free from him.
    Now Lincoln is also my vassal.
    I trade them both horse for iron. Mining Inc up to 33h

    T282

    4700 bpt

    T283

    Isabella
    is created by Hannibal.
    DoW
    them.

    Sports League quest
    complete Golden Age (5 turns left) extended to 29 turns.

    T284

    Medicine
    Sushi :dance::band: :beer:

    food currently at +20. Not bad, not great, but I chose to settle only mining Inc resources first. I have not collected any additional seafood. workboats are swarming now.

    90:gold: overflow from longbow in Cuzco
    +pillage: hamlet, cottage, 2 pastures
    +6 conquest gold for 2 of Isabella's cities.
    =152. (I have 3 exec spreads for 150 this turn)

    Now Cuzco has to do a lot of sushi execs. 4 or 5 I think, so it's out of the exec gold business for a while. I haven't hardly used any of my over-whipped workboats for gold yet. And I really want to resolve those boats to net seafood.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
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  18. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    I'm looking forward to seeing the strike economy in action.

    How much of this game will we be able to see (access) once it's accepted into the HOF?
     
  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    There will be a couple saves (but just start, end, and maybe a couple in the middle) in the HoF database.
    I'm free to upload any saves I want after it is accepted.
     
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    In case you missed the turnset report update a few posts back. I'm entering strike and bpt is up to 2200+

    Sushi is about 8 turns away.

    Let's look at some other numbers.
    70 cities, 78 workers. I've got 20-30 settlers on their way out to collect resources.

    1 AI left that I've not started on yet. Liz. But she's odd this game. She was way out in the ocean with Peter. What I call 'south america' in my game (Peter had 'north america'). She only built, if you can believe it, 2 additional cities to go with her capital on that landmass. And very early in the game, she settled two islands, presumably for the iron. One was very far away. That's 5 cities total. Shouldn't be too hard.

    I eventually need to remove Mansa, Vicky, Peter from the map too. They each have one, weak city.

    I am about to break the 51% land mark--the original domination limit, but as you know I've raised that bar to 62% and will move it up to 76% (7 more vassals)

    Mining Inc in 30 cities. Providing +28h so far.
    I've got my eye on quite a few more resources to get that up to 40+h. I've got AI gifted cities on top of several mining resources and I can't demand they give it to me until I get them as my vassal. Easy, but takes time to gather them all up. I only have Sal and his iron is not mined.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018

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