Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

[Powerfaker]

Also, you are in a golden age currently. Some adjustment for that is required too.......

Nevertheless, mama mia what a tech rate.....without any help from commerce.......

 

[WastinTime]

You make 2 good points. Loss of GAge and leaving caste for 1 turn and maybe another time? Sad to have to build cristo for just that 1 turn, but there's no option.

I'll have to figure out the losses there. It could be like -1000 bpt for the GAge hammer loss for ~15 turns (-15000).
1 turn in slavery could cost 1000+ too: the workshop hammers and 100's of scientists are turned into citizens (some engineers--I can run 3 engineers in factory cities)

Overall, I'd say research will take an extra turn. I'll update the post.

 

[Pangaea]

Impossible to extend the Golden Age until launch?

 

[WastinTime]

I've also not counted either the cost of building STRIKE monster food, or building workers to chop the final forests (if needed). Ideally I figure out how to do the space parts without much chopping. Still need to revisit that plan with more advanced ideas.

Other things draining my research rate: building cristo and apollo.

So the 25 turns to go is a good number to use just for deciding if an investment will payoff in time. Actual launch date could move around a bit. So, on that topic, let's look at...

A few investments:

Library: one time loss: 270 bpt
So if you put these in a city already running 5 scientists, it should grow +10 pop over the next 25 turns...meaning the average # of sci is 10 per turn. that's 60 bpt and the library gives +15 bpt. So in 18 turns, you get back your 270. I'll need to stop building libraries soon. Clearly Universities are out completely and observatories are only going into cities that want a lab for space parts.

Mining exec: loss of 250 to build one. Provides: +55bpt. Pays off in just 5 turns, 6 if you count exec movement turn. assuming you have a city without mining. If you need to build a settler too, then that's another 300 loss for -550. But now you're new city runs 2 scientists + mining inc + 1 hammer = +68. Pays off in 8 turns (9 turns counting exec move). It could pay off quicker if you assume the new city has a sushi resource to connect. Now you're investing a....

workboat: To get +1 food you need about 3 workboats, so it's a loss of -180
Calculating payback is tricky because which cities are going to grow just because you have 1 more food?
Here's how I do it. +1 food in say 80-90 cities means the empire as a whole has +80-90 That should mean about 2 extra population across the empire each turn. On average 2 pop = ~15 (see earlier reasoning)
So you'll get +15, then +30, then +45, +60, +75. And now the -180 loss is paid for in 5 turns.
So I'll be connecting any seafood I can for a while yet. Problem is, I don't have any to connect, so I need to have the...

settler investments. It would take 2-3 settlers to get 3 new seafood (for +1 ). Considering the shameful way I failed to settle some sites with multiple seafood, I have them available so I can calculate just 2 settlers to get 3 seafood.
So the loss is -600 plus additional loss for not growing while building settlers. Let's say that permanent loss of 1 pop is offset by the new city. The new city is a bit better because it gets 1 pop plus the free Merc specialist. But then the city building the settler probably had a library, etc. so let's call it even. The loss stands at -600.
So the only reason to make a settler is obviously for the mining, or sushi, or new seafood. But I already have a dozen or two cities that can get mining and sushi, so the only real reason for a new settler at this point in the game is new seafood.
Therefore, back to those workboats (180) + 600 = 780 loss

+15, then +30, then +45, +60, +75, +90, +105, +120, +135, +150 = 825.
it would take 10 turns to come out ahead, so I should settle at least the double seafood spots.

Sushi exec
loss of -250.
My sushi is only about +33 shoulda done better here.
At that rate, a new, size 1 city grows 2 pop every 3 turns. (instead of 1 pop per turn which I should be doing with better resource gathering...next time!)
Reaching size 10 after 15 turns.

1 turn is spent moving the exec (cus we pretty much only have islands left)
1 turn is spent filling the food bin 1/2 way. (cities all have had mining for a couple turns so they have a Terrace)
Next turns you get
+6
+6
+13
+19
+19
+26
+33
+33
+39
+46 = 240 at 12 turns

So it's 13 turns to make a profit.
I can do sushi execs for about another 10 turns.

 

[WastinTime]

I forgot about the free GS from physics. That's another 15,000 bulb. Could save a turn.

 

[WastinTime]

Impossible to extend the Golden Age until launch?

No, I could if I wanted, but I decided I didn't want to waste a GM bulb and a GS bulb (~25,000:science) even tho I have the GSpy sitting around with nothing to do.
My GAge ends T312. The extra hammers might come pretty close to matching the bulbs if I had the full 24 turns to go...up to T336. All other GAge benefits are of no value. It's not like I can skip Cristo. Without that, I'd be in slavery for 5t instead of 1.

It's kinda odd I didn't even use my 3-person GAge.

And I used to think building space parts really needed the GAge hammers, but now, the new way I'm planning, the parts come down to mostly whip overflows. There aren't that many turns you actually build the parts.

 

[WastinTime]

T304

Physics
I have several Uranium under my cities, so it's hooked up when needed. (needed for Nuclear Plants, also can't start these until Fission Another good reason to go to Fusion before composites.)

12,000+ bpt (still investing)
I could have Electricity in 1 turn if I didn't invest in my future research rate.

 

[WastinTime]

I can do some more planning now that I have a tech rate estimate, and more specifically, I know that it won't get over 25,000 bpt in 20 turns.

So, when I get to Fusion (in less than 20 turns), I have 4 techs left (Sat, Comp, Gen, Ecol)
142,000
That will take at least 6 turns. Therefore, I have this much time to build the parts:

Engines: 7t
Docking Bay: 5t (or 6t)
Casings: 4t
Stasis: 2t
LifeSupport: 1t

But, Ecology is 30K and Genetics is 38K, so there is a good chance that I could swap those and squeeze out Ecology 1t after Composites. Like this:
Casings: 4t
LifeSupport: 3t
Stasis: 1t

The 3t is important because it means you can do one huge OF into the part, then finish some other pre-whipped build like Nuclear Plant and dump that OF on turn 3.
Life Support becomes much easier, but Stasis becomes harder. Not a whole lot harder than it already was tho.
The swap also makes Recycling Centers (900h) available for whip overflow, but it's a bit late. Could be used for Stasis tho.

Note that the engines can now do 4 OFs Lab, NucPlant, Cathedral?, ?hospital or wonder?
Docking Bay also got easier at 5t, allowing 3 overflows.
Recall: on normal speed, you'd be doing 1 tech per turn and have to finish DockingBay in 4t.
-------------------------------------
I feel like the only danger in my plan is if, for example, I'm just like 1,000 short of Fusion. Then get it with 20K+ overflow. None of the 'times to build' change except Engines now have only 6t instead of 7t.
so I'll have to try and plan for 6t. bummer.

 

[WastinTime]

T305

+53h mining (lots of new resources were out in the ocean and several from Liz)
+31f sushi

140 cities
-21,500 gpt

Some of my knights are now dying, but they were outside my culture. I might lose some inside my culture soon, but the wars are pretty much over.

 

[WastinTime]

Timeline

- T308 radio, Cristo. I have only 6 turns to build it b4 rocketry if I want that same city to do Apollo, but it's not needed for ~14 turns. Conclusion: I don't build it in the IW city?
- The capital can do it in about 7-8 turns, but I like getting overflow gold there.
- Next biggest city? Hamburg, 10 turns, so not much time to prep. Fortunately, it could do observatory in 1t so I'll probably OF that.
Sounds good. Should prep industrial park too just in case? no, later.


~T314 Rocketry, from here it will be only about ~6 turns to Superconductors (because 2 Bulbs for computers). Unfortunately Refrigeration prevents me from bulbing Rocketry to start Apollo early. (or Plastics).
so I'll have to try and build Apollo in 6t, it currently looks like 9t--need to chop some.
Note: I'll overflow an observatory (not whipped). That makes it 8 turns. Need to confirm that Apollo is not a wonder (done. it's not) so no +50% IND bonus and no lab bonus either.
I better start prepping (should probably have already started prepping) observatory (448/450), industrial park(194/600), other?
Ah, good news: I won't start thrusters just because I can. I'll need labs whipped first, so I should have 8-9t to complete Apollo.
Question: should I get Rocketry before Industrialism (aluminum)? and start Apollo early but with no aluminum. No, because I realized I have 8-9t instead of 6-7 (above)


~T319-320: I may have to squeeze my empire to get T319 Superconductors. I need the extra time to set up labs, etc.
At superconductors (and when Apollo complete) I can start 5 thrusters, but only after labs. There is not much time until Fusion (engines) because
1 bulb for Fission. Probably about 4-5 turns, so I don't see building a thruster and then also an engine in the same city.
Maybe the IW city can do thruster + one of the last 2.
I'm thinking 5 separate cities do thrusters, cus all cities have to prep a lab (208/750), then with Fission in 1t, almost all can finally prep a nuc plant (208/750). Nope, I scrapped all Nuclear Plants. Doesn't work.
Lab in IWcity (344/750)
Lab in Capital (410/750)

T321 or 322: Then next turn (2t after superconductors) is the slavery turn, where thruster-cities could resolve their lab. Other cities will whip/remove stuff.
3t after superconductors actually start all 5 thrusters. They'll have 8-9 turns to complete.

~T324 Fusion (could be delayed due to slavery turn, loss of population and many cities prepping lab, etc.)

~T331 launch

 

[WastinTime]

IW City, a thruster is 800 base-h, Stasis is 1029 base-h

turn R= Rocketry, S = Superconductors

Prep:
Observatory (~350/450)
IndPark (~590/600)
Hospital (~550/600)
University (~598/600)

R-2: Observatory, ~250 OF
R-1: IndPark, 600 OF
R: Apollo
(~5-6 turns)

Spoiler abandoned idea to delay Apollo 1t :

S : Apollo (may need a chop, probably not), all other space part cities do pLab this turn. IF I finish/chop Apollo 1t early, then IW city could join them and everything that follows happens 1t sooner than shown here...

S-1 Finish/chop Apollo
S: pLab
S+1: whip lab (slavery)
S+2: b4 caste:whip/remove IndPark, hospital, & University , pThruster (500 base)
S+3: Hospital
S+4: pThruster (799 base)
S+5: explorer? or worker?
S+6: prepped, but non-whipped University (200 base-h OF)
S+7: A.Wat (choption)
cathedral?
(build research if Genetics is not coming)

G-1: Thruster (finish/choption)
Genetics: Stasis (650/1029) (choption)
Launch

choption = optional chopping. total of 4-6 needed depends on if I use cathedral, whipped world wonder, or neither.

 

[WastinTime]

Hamburg, Cristo 1200 base-h, DockingBay 1715 base-h (5t to complete) or Engine 1920 base-h (7t to complete) No, dockingbay and engine are too hard with no forests. Casing? No.
Because of Cristo, this city can't prepare a national or world wonder, so I think it will just have to do a thruster or the cockpit.

turn S = Superconductors

T305: Prep Observ (598/600)
T306: explorer
T307 Observ (200 base-h OF)
T308 Cristo (325)
T309 Cristo (450)
T310 Cristo (575)
T311 Cristo (700)
T312 Cristo (825)
T313 Cristo (950)
T314 Cristo (1075)
T315 Cristo (1199/1200) Purposely leave it short
T316 prep IndPark (~260/600)
T317 prep Intelligence agency (260/540)
(research?)
S-1: Cristo
S: Thruster (250)
.
.
finish Thruster.

Spoiler attempt at Engine :

F-3 pTemple
F-2 Temple (max OF)
F-1 resolve lab
F-Fusion Engine (500/1920)
IndPark
Engine (850)
IntellAgency
Engine (1200)
??
Engine (1550)
way short

Spoiler Attempt at casing :

Composites
C: Casing (500/1029)
IndPark
C+2: Casing (900/1029)

 

[WastinTime]

Cuzco, capital, Engine 1600 base-h

Prep : AWat 1498/1500
IndPark (~540?/600)
Observatory (448/450)

S-1: observatory
S: pLab (748/750)
S+1: (Fission) pNucPlant (~410/750)
S+2: whip/remove everything including AWat, give away stone, resolve Lab
S+3: resolve AWat.

F : (fusion) Engine (650/1600)
IndPark
Engine (1000/1600)
Engine (1125/
Engine (1250/1600)
NucPlant
Engine (1660/1600)

That was a little too easy. How about dockingbay instead?

Cuzco, capital, DockingBay 1500 base-h, but only 5t to complete

Prep : AWat 1498/1500
IndPark (~540?/600)

S-1: observatory
S: pLab (748/750)
S+1: (Fission) pNucPlant (~410/750)
S+2: whip/remove everything including AWat, give away stone

F : (fusion) resolve Lab
F+1: resolve AWat.
F+2 : Satellites, DockingBay (660/1500)
IndPark
DB (1040/1500)
NucPlant
DB (1480/1500)

Very close, but I think it'll make it.

Conclusion: Docking Bay in capital.

 

[WastinTime]

Persepolis, Engine, 1920 base-h (4 chops brings it down to 1560)

Prep :
IndPark (~598/600)
Levee (538/540)
IntellAgency (538/540)
Observ(448/450)

S-1: Observ
S: pLab (748/750)
S+1:
S+2: whip/remove everything

F-2 : explorer or two
F-1 : resolve Lab
F : (fusion) Engine (500/1560)
Levee
Engine (980/1560)
IndPark
Engine (1260/1560)
IntellAgency
Engine (1640/1560)

 

[WastinTime]

Still need the 2nd engine.

Next best city is....(searching)...

Paris with 3 forests, Needs 1650 for Engine
It actually has a tiny little river so it can do a levee. Should be similar to Persepolis

Prep :
IndPark (~598/600)
Levee (538/540)
IntellAgency (538/540)
Observ(448/450)

S-1: Observ
S: pLab (748/750)
S+1:
S+2: whip/remove everything

F-2 : explorer or two
F-1 : resolve Lab
F : (fusion) Engine (500/1650)
Levee
Engine (980/1650)
IndPark
Engine (1260/1650)
IntellAgency
Engine (1640/1650)

Close enough to squeeze it out. This isn't as easy as I thought it would be!
I'll keep an eye out for another city that could take over the engine.

 

[WastinTime]

LifeSupport City (11-13 forests) 858 baseh, formerly named StasisCity, and before that it was LifeSupport originally

Seems I have an excess of forests. Maybe Cockpit 858 base-h or thruster (1029) here too? Not thrusters because they're too easy.

prep:
Observ(448/450)
levee(538/540)
IndPark (598)

S-2: explorer?
S-1: Observ
S: pLab (748/750)
S+1: explorer?
S+2: whip/remove levee, IndPark. Lab, explorer

F=FiberOptics

F-1 : Lab
F: Cockpit (475)
F+1 : Levee
F+2 : Cockpit (800)

E-3 : explorer (if there's time)
E-2 : resolve IndPark
E-1 : finish Cockpit
E : Ecology, LifeSupport (500) (choption)
E+1 might have to finish now: LifeSupport (choption)
E+2 LifeSupport (choption)

Needs 5-6 chops by turn E+1. (4-5 chops if genetics takes 2t)

 

[WastinTime]

Thrusters

New idea with space parts: skip observatory and lab in the thruster cities.
Why waste a turn starting a lab, another turn whipping, when thrusters are available at the same time labs become available. This means you don't waste 450 on an observatory, nor waste population on the lab.

It means that thrusters are 1200 base-h instead of 1029h. That's just 2 turns to make up the difference.

And thrusters have at least 10 turns if not 11 or 12.

S= Superconductors

S-2: ?pTemple or explorer to maximize OF going into thruster?
S-1 : ?temple or something with maxOF. 2nd explorer?
S: Thruster
.
.
until it completes

I'll use my best, non-forested cities:
Gems
Constantinople
Istanbul
Hamburg
...several others...

 

[WastinTime]

T306

15,000 bpt
sushi up to 32

Electricity

T307

17,500 bpt
Finish my last 2 factories/start my last 2 coal plants

T308
Still cranking out max execs per turn.

Radio
Start Cristo.
Bulb part of Industrialism (with GM) ~8,000 (no, wait 1 turn)

I still manage to add 8 corps this turn.

18,000 bpt (fyi, my max bpt, if I stopped investing and didn't build Cristo: 21,000)

 

[WastinTime]

My workboats are trying to net a lot of late seafood, but I'm pretty sure some won't make it. I can try to save some by moving all my MP's out of the cities. Which will also delay the other killings...

The time has come to stop building execs soon. Not because I don't think they'll give good ROI. It's because any remaining at the end of T310 will be eaten by the strike monster on T311.
Note: I can still build execs if they can move and spread on the turn they are born, so I'll put a bunch on boats T309, and only build execs on 309 that can spread 310.

My workers will start dying T311-315 too.

 

[WastinTime]

Hot Tip : Managing High BPT

Industrialism is a full 2t of research (T310), then Rifling(311), Artillery(312), Rocketry(313).

But, what if I can get Rocketry T312?

When you have a really high research rate, you have to be careful with overflows. You can't get more than 1 tech per turn (unless you fully bulb one)
So, remember how I partially researched Rifling during the 'dark age' of building factories? It's only got ~5,000 left, so I can finish:
309 Rifling (huge overflow)
310 Artillery (still overflow)
311 Industrialism 27K in one turn: (bulb is up to >8,300) still some OF
312 Rocketry (very little/no overflow)