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Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    It will be like when my favorite TV show end. Even though it's done and served it's purpose, I'll miss it.
     
  2. El Bogus

    El Bogus Prince

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    Yeah, same here.
     
  3. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    For some reason I do not get notifications about this thread any more. Happy to see that you are doing great.
     
  4. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    Wait a moment - that can't be right.

    I followed this thread from the beginning, even asked a couple of questions on here, and was amazed by the wonderbread economy. Then took a year-long break from Civ (tried VI for a short period but never got fully into it), forgot all about it, played some enjoyable IV games again, randomly came to this forum again, and THE GAME IS STILL GOING ON? What madness is this?

    Please do not accidentally trigger Domination, the collective outcry from this forum would deafen many. Can't wait to see the spaceship launch.
     
  5. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Did you doubt that this thread would live up to its creator's moniker?
     
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Thx you two :lol:
    I would have been done about now if it wasn't my turn on the SGotM. Not long to wait now! I promise!
    btw, the SG is mindblowing as well. Very exciting. That's where a lot of my evil tactics come from, and SG25 is no exception.
    But you gotta keep anything you read there a secret until it's over. :nono:
     
    AbsintheRed and SittinDown like this.
  7. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    My SGotM turnset is complete. Now, I'm right in the middle of a medium-sized, kitchen remodel, but my brain can get back to marathon speed.
    I need to go thru each space part city and confirm it's on track over the weekend, then the game should fly. Maybe just one week!

    edit: Oh, and I have to do my taxes.
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  8. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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  9. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    I wonder if the government has ever considered killing off large portions of their population to build wonders they have no intention of finishing just so they can have everybody working on science as a valid alternative to the standard taxation model. :)
     
  10. jamarsa

    jamarsa Chieftain

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    You may be onto something... Perhaps the ancient myth of the Tower of Babel was a garbled account of a previous try to a BC Space Launch? You know, reach the heavens by building a tower...

    Well, if you want to make a try, I claim the scientist role. Do you want to offer yourself as the laboratory rat (a.k.a. victim...)? :backstab:
     
  11. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    That story makes much more sense now.
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    :devil: Leave Bizarro world (strike) and go back to traditional research? :faint:

    For a while now, I've kept this in the back of my mind. It's why I would put down new workshops on unimproved tiles instead of destroying villages. The goal is to stop building sacrificial units and maybe even turn up the research slider. It's worth exploring.
    This post is just the concept. Then I'll address how it fits with my current game in another post, and if I should do it.

    When you first get CoL and have the opportunity to build courthouse, it's 4 population. Even with OrgRel or a forge, it's 3 pop which I determined is too much to invest pre-corporation. But now, with Kremlin, 1 pop = 337. Pretty much all of the 360h for a ch.
    And with sushi, I'm growing ~50 pop per turn now, so I only lose 2 turns of growth to make 100 courthouses. Recall each turn of 50 growth adds about 400 bpt. So I'm losing -800bpt on my research rate every turn for the near future. This growth slows as it gets harder to grow population due to size and unhealthiness.

    I'd have to do 9 banks @ 2pop each = 18 population.
    1 grocer, 1 market in the HQ city is 2-3 population.
    So let's say the damage to my bpt is -1,000.
    Remember, I'm doing 20,000 bpt now.

    Then there are one-time losses of research that don't effect my bpt.
    WallSt cost: ~1400 :science: lost on a 1800h wonder build due to IND trait.
    Another loss comes from the fact that you have to do each building for 2 turns. One to set it up, One to whip it. You can set the city to all scientists, but you can't help losing the mining hammers which is about 120 :science:. 240 over 2 turns. That's 24,000 lost across the 100 cities doing courthouses. Ouch!
    :devil: Hot tip: what you would want to do (and it's too late for me) is put ~23 hammers into a courthouse before corporations/factory/power. You're set up for a 1-whip and save 12,000 of that 24,000.

    Reducing expenses
    I'm currently at -34,000 gpt, net (which includes a small amt of income)

    And, coincidentally, of my -36,000 expenses, 34,000 is maint. (Not upkeep or inflation.)
    So courthouses save 17,000. A good start.

    Wall St. = 1000
    grocer, bank, market in HQ = 1000

    Now I'd be at 'only' -15,000gpt.

    The hard part to estimate, and the biggie is: cutting corp expenses
    Can't cut Mining, that's our bread and butter.
    But, now that my cities have grown on sushi for a while, and most are having unhealthy problems. Growth is slowing, and it's not that beneficial to try to grow again. I could drastically cut the seafood. Zero population growth empire wide. I would no longer gain 400 bpt --which is dwindling anyway, but my goal is to trade-in that slow gain for a huge jump I get from turning the research slider back up and/or not building sacrifices.

    I can give away 16 rice, fish, crab, clam. 1 to each opponent/vassal. That's -64 resources. Which is a loss of -23 food in sushi cities (leaving +17 of the 40 I'm getting now). Should be enough to keep from starving, but I might have to work a couple food tiles again instead of 100% scientists.

    TBD : calculate corp expenses saved with 64 less sushi.
    For now, let's assume that is enough to bring us back to -0gpt. Killing the strike monster.
    But now, we're still at 0% research, so how can I make up the losses described above?

    Well, 40 turns into STRIKE, one huge savings is no longer building 20 sacrificial units per turn. The smallest savings would be 20 workboats = 1200bpt. But if you need to save your army, workers, boats, etc, then you'd need to build 20 privateers = 3200 bpt.
    Keep in mind, 10 turns later in strike, you've now got to do 25 units/turn.

    Would it make researching to the end of the game faster? Don't know yet. Kinda depends on the corp expense savings I didn't calculate. above.
    edit: I did a quick calc. 8,000 gpt is the cost of those 64 resources. Might have to pillage other sushi? Or maybe this whole thing was a bad idea.
     
  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    :devil: Leaving STRIKE, part II

    Still brainstorming.
    Another huge shift would be to build wealth instead of research, and make some wonderbread again.

    This would allow the research slider to be 100%. Now, libraries have a larger effect. And even university, observ, lab might make more sense.
    Think about it this way. -8,000 build research = +8,000 build wealth,
    but then 8,000 less commerce has to be converted to :gold:
    That's +10,000 research (with library)
    +12,000 :science: (lib + observ), etc.
    up to 16,000. And increase of 8,000 bpt! (But don't forget this number is with universities and labs. A huge cost there)

    - random thought: Free Religion's 10% now has a larger effect too.

    more TBD?
     
  14. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    How does getting out of strike effect the strike counter? Does one turn out of strike completely reset the counter (so that if you go back into strike, you start by loosing one unit), does the counter slowly decay ( so that you’d need many turns before going back into strike would only loose one unit), or does it never reset?
     
  15. Tonny

    Tonny King

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    strike does NOT reset
     
  16. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    Yes, it keeps going even if get some turns out (did test this in WB). Kind of "fair" stuff as it would be real game changer to get some gold for just 1 turn and than lose just a little bit of units for some turns instead of hundreads.
     
  17. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Sorry for the poor joke, but shouldn't you have used a French leader? :sheep:
     
  18. ikotomi

    ikotomi Prince

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    Can you use an exec to spread sushi to an AI and trade unlimited Corp resources?
     
  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Good question. That might be easier than pillaging extras. Especially if I had set it up before going deep into strike. Now, it would be trickier to get an exec to survive long enough to spread to an AI. I usual, I could solve the problem with a (temporary) city gift.
     
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Without going into too much detail, I've decided to stay in STRIKE.
    The discussion about switching back to normal is just an exercise. It may be appropriate in some game in the future.

    Reasons:
    - I'm letting workers die. I haven't made, and I don't have to make and more sacrifices. Just ~30 workers in the end for chopping 30 forests.

    - I've only got 14 turns left til launch

    - I'm not in a Golden Age (don't get +1c per tile)

    - I would have done more to prepare (like more libraries) if the switch was now.

    - more TBD
     

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