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Let's talk about coal

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Natura, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Natura

    Natura Warlord

    Joined:
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    In more and more games, I find myself going Autocracy. Not because it fits with the victory condition I'm going for, or even if it fits the general playstyle in that game. No, I find myself picking it for one thing: Third Alternative. And I'm picking that for one thing: coal.

    Of the end-game resources (coal, oil, aluminium, uranium) coal is the one I find myself constantly short on. It's easy to see why. Seaports and Train Stations both consume one. Then Factories take another. Coal Plants take 2 more. That's 4 coal per city, so even a small empire of 5 cities requires 20 coal to keep industry at an optimal level.

    Solar and Nuclear plants technically should be able to ease this burden, but not only to both show up much later than Coal Plant, but both have restrictions: Solar Plants can only be built near Deserts and Nuclear Plants are reliant on an even more scarce resource in Uranium. Plus with the new event system it's only a matter of time before someone encodes a Chernobyl event. If they haven't already.

    I understand that most power generation is still done by coal, and that coal was (for a long time) the only real option aside from water power for generating electricity. But the coal pinch seems a bit much. Perhaps dropping the coal requirement for Coal Plants down to 1 would be more in line with resource distributions on maps. Alternatively, giving us alternate means of power (hydro, gas, oil etc) might help ease the resource burden elsewhere.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    As I see it, you're struggling with coal the same as other civs, so it isn't really unbalanced. The choice among the buildings that use coal is a very capped one, but it isn't a bad thing. Scarce resources make you value what's really important and save for that.

    The thing that is really bugging me is that the nuclear plant only gives +5 hammers. So, if I have uranium instead of coal, why can't I have enough power, like France?
     
  3. Forsti

    Forsti Warlord

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    Finland
    It has to be a bug. For some reason, it doesn't appear on Gazebo's game http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14245348&postcount=32
     
  4. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    You can always trade for coal, or ally city states for some as well.
     
  5. mikes61293

    mikes61293 Warlord

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    I'm also only getting 5 production from solar and nuclear plants (at least thats what the tooltip says, I haven't actually built one). The only other mod I'm running outside of CBP is global relations.
     
  6. Charos

    Charos Chieftain

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    A hallmark of a good game is having to make interesting decisions. Not having enough coal to build everything in every city means you have to decide which cities really need those buildings and which could do without. If strategic resources were balanced such that you always had enough for everything you could want to do, then why have them in the game at all? Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but it provides a reason to (as crdvis said) trade, gain allies, or even steal territory/go to war for resources. Seems pretty realistic to me.
     
  7. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    Well making Coal Plants cheaper wouldn't be good for Nuclear or Solar, as Coal comes much earlier. Maybe Oil could have a building for it, as eventually Aluminum replaces it in our Armies.
     
  8. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    same here, Only 5 prod, I was wondering what was the point of those buildings because it's like that since I started to play this mod :rolleyes:
     
  9. hokath

    hokath King

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    Echoing the comments about decisions. It's not a resource if you never run out of it.

    Good idea! Fufufufu
     
  10. Wayl

    Wayl Chieftain

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    Isn't the scarity of a ressource decided by the map type?
     
  11. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Yes, but late game buildings demand tons of coal.
     
  12. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Wouldn't this explain the concept of industrial revolution in some civilizations, since they had plentiful coal compared to other developing civilizations?
     
  13. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    I agree with OP. Oil has a bit too many uses compared to other late game resources which are mostly needed for military units only.

    Maybe make coal a bit more abundant on maps while still keep it scarce enough to prevent spamming coal buildings everywhere. Coal plants could be reduced to 1 coal as well and their production bonus tweaked accordingly.

    Sent from my HTC Desire 820s dual sim using Tapatalk
     
  14. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    This isn't really possible. Every map script has its own resource distibution. You can't go and tell every map modder to change it.

    What could be easier is to distribute resource demand evenly among buildings. But if you're short on coal, don't build lots of ironclads, don't build the charcoal plant, buy coal from other civs, befriend CSs that have coal, this is part of the fun. If it wasn't bugged alluminium and uranium can also improve production. Besides, you don't really need 5 cities producing at its max, just those with a high base production.
     
  15. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I was hoping Gazebo would explain this to you, so that I wouldn't have to, but I guess I'll have to.

    The idea behind the coal-buildings and especially the coal-plant is that you're not supposed to be able to afford them every game or in every city. Coal is fairly rare (unless you're Russia or England) and isn't used for any units at all(intentionally), instead you use it to construct buildings of varying usefulness. There is a pretty clear powerscale in the buildings: Seaport/Railway station > Factory > Coalplant. The Coalplant is like the definition of luxury-building, at twice the cost of a seaport but with a fraction of the power, but a system like this opens up strategic choices, if you're dead set on producing from one or two cities you can build plants there at the cost of factories in other cities.
    However in general the coal-plant was just added for those situations where you're sitting on a ton of coal and have nothing to spend it on (fairly rare situation, but it does happen), as you can't spend it on units and you probably don't want to trade it (as allowing the AI to build sea-ports and factories is bad for business.
     

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