[RD] LGBTQ News II

[danjuno]

Not sure what you refer to with "obscure factoid", or even which definition of factoid you're using.

Point being it's a trivial thing.

 

[Lexicus]

This pointless cruelty makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[danjuno]

This is what they want. The only question is how to stop them.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

This is what endless debating about trans people's humanity leads to

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim trans people aren't human.

Edit: inevitably this will have happened somewhere, at some point, since there's billions of us yapping all the time. My intent isn't to say this has literally never happened, just that I don't think it's a claim that's made as part of the typical general discourse.

 

[Senethro]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim trans people aren't human.

Edit: inevitably this will have happened somewhere, at some point, since there's billions of us yapping all the time. My intent isn't to say this has literally never happened, just that I don't think it's a claim that's made as part of the typical general discourse.

So what? Is the meaning unclear or is there an important factual clarification you wish to offer?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

"This is what endlessly doing X leads to"

"I don't think X is happening endlessly, I've never seen it"

"So what?"

Don't really know how to respond to that.

 

[danjuno]

Humanity as in deserving of human rights.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim trans people aren't human.

Edit: inevitably this will have happened somewhere, at some point, since there's billions of us yapping all the time. My intent isn't to say this has literally never happened, just that I don't think it's a claim that's made as part of the typical general discourse.

How would you know what the "typical general discourse" is? You made a post professing to wonder why "95% of recent posts in this thread are about trans issues", so that leads me to believe you don't pay much attention to these matters. It follows that you saying "I haven't seen x" would just mean that you have rather limited experience and not that x doesn't happen quite frequently.

Please understand I'm not trying to insult you here I'm merely trying to suggest that your own experiences maybe aren't the best metric for understanding what trans people go through.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

How would you know what the "typical general discourse" is? You made a post professing to wonder why "95% of recent posts in this thread are about trans issues", so that leads me to believe you don't pay much attention to these matters.

At no point did I say "I wonder why", I just said it was a very notable ratio and more specifically that comment was more about the dearth of posts about non-trans issues as I felt that only 9 posts throughout the entire year wasn't very much.

It follows that you saying "I haven't seen x" would just mean that you have rather limited experience and not that x doesn't happen quite frequently.

Yes, that could follow. However it's not like I'm completely oblivious to the discourse. I've seen quite a lot of it, "on both sides" as they say, and I've never seen anyone claim that trans people aren't human. (Although danjuno has clarified here)

Please understand I'm not trying to insult you here I'm merely trying to suggest that your own experiences maybe aren't the best metric for understanding what trans people go through.

Yes, this is fair comment and I don't disagree with that. All I'd say again is that I'm not trying to express an understanding of what trans people "go through" as such, just that I have not seen this claim made. I would think that even if my experience of the general discourse was limited to only this thread (which it isn't), then I would have seen it demonstrated in here if it really is endless. I don't think that's too ridiculous a thought.

 

[Lexicus]

However it's not like I'm completely oblivious to the discourse. I've seen quite a lot of it, "on both sides" as they say, and I've never seen anyone claim that trans people aren't human. (Although danjuno has clarified here)

Earlier this year, a trans teen committed suicide and her last tweet, a haunting photo from the high place from which she jumped to her death, became a right-wing meme spammed in the replies of any post by any trans person. This is just one thing I have seen in "the discourse." Now, this isn't literally people saying "trans people aren't human" but I hope you can see that the underlying sentiment is basically identical?

Now think about this: I'm cis. This was one 'incident' I happened to see unfold online. How much goes on that I don't see, because it isn't happening to me?

 

[GenMarshall]

I’d probably would echo Manfred’s response. I haven’t been exposed to the “trans people aren’t human” narrative, even when I was in anti-SJW spaces.

Before the torch and pitchfork crowd come after me in “hunting down the ‘chud’”. I’m going to humbly admit that I have limited experience in regards to trans issues, other than Trump and the GOP making it harder to ignore them punching down on them when I see articles in the local newspaper. I’m perhaps, almost at a point, of accepting of fictional stories of trans people (provided they’re well written and not made under the guise of rainbow capitalism).

 

[Lexicus]

I’m perhaps, almost at a point, of accepting of fictional stories of trans people (provided they’re well written and not made under the guise of rainbow capitalism).

 

[GenMarshall]

View attachment 746216

I do not know how to explain it to you since I’m referring to media like literature, movies, and video games since those would be the forms that would help me understand without getting chewed out. It should be clear in my statement of “rainbow capitalism” that I have skepticism with the entertainment industry.

I guess I was wrong expecting a good faith discussion and trying to learn when I just get a meme response.

 

[choxorn]

I’d probably would echo Manfred’s response. I haven’t been exposed to the “trans people aren’t human” narrative, even when I was in anti-SJW spaces.

It's not that anti-SJW spaces are literally saying "trans people aren't human" in those exact words, it's that between the suicide memes, the insults and slurs, the legal pushes against their rights, and general nastiness, they send an overall message of not believing their lives have value, because they're trans.

They don't literally word it as "trans people aren't human," they word it by saying they're perverted freaks corrupting the youth, or saying they're a man in a dress pretending to be a woman. It's the same with any bigotry, like how racists like talking about crime statistics or "illegals poisoning the blood of the nation" without ever outright saying they don't believe large classes of people have the same humanity as them.

I’m perhaps, almost at a point, of accepting of fictional stories of trans people (provided they’re well written and not made under the guise of rainbow capitalism).

buddy. friend. pal. do you recognize how this sounds.

If a story about a cis person isn't "well written" are you as immediately dismissive of it as being made under the "guise" of some nefarious entity? Do you have the same standards for what counts as "well written" depending on how much like you the characters in the story are?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I’d probably would echo Manfred’s response. I haven’t been exposed to the “trans people aren’t human” narrative, even when I was in anti-SJW spaces.

Before the torch and pitchfork crowd come after me in “hunting down the ‘chud’”. I’m going to humbly admit that I have limited experience in regards to trans issues, other than Trump and the GOP making it harder to ignore them punching down on them when I see articles in the local newspaper. I’m perhaps, almost at a point, of accepting of fictional stories of trans people (provided they’re well written and not made under the guise of rainbow capitalism).

I see.

 

[Angst]

@GenMarshall good faith explanation here, i believe, so
i think the visceral response of lex's jpg came down to phrasing.

it's strange phrasing to say that one is "almost at a point of accepting of fictional stories of trans people". the phrasing is weird because of the built-in premises; so you can be accepting of these stories, and you can be uh unaccepting of them, for the lack of better english. so the sentence outlines two states, two positions; to be accepting and unaccepting of stories of/about trans people. the discomfort comes from why you would be unaccepting of those stories. like, literally why wouldn't you accept it. the unacceptance (sorry english) then bridges to a number of positions that underline the discomfort, which your parenthesis seeks to outline for the stance to be sympathetic.

so, the parenthesis. it contains two premises for the stories to be accepted; that they're well written, and not under the guise of rainbow capitalism. let me touch on the latter first.

rainbow capitalism from my experience is terminology usually used among the right in general, and the people using that terminology range from media grifters and their consumers. the problem is that it's a big identifier of the right wing youtube outrage mill for example. this terminology (and even your political affliation, i don't actually know it) is technically fine, but lacking further definition, it feels icky to people savvy as to what's going on in media. the interesting thing is that the critique of the structures in place also exist from within the left, where i've seen pink capitalism being thrown around, for example. leftists generally aren't too happy with cynical commodification of identity or vapid, empty products that has some rainbow plastered over it. but the problem, then, is capitalism, not the lgbt component. rainbow capitalism often builds into conspiratorial positions of capital, in that they conspire to push lgbt, invade cis spaces, or whatever ideas exist in the grifting mill. the leftist position (and the position of right wing people outside the grifting mill) is that businesses don't care, it's literally just them adapting to a changing market, because demographics are changing, therefore changes and ties to identity in the players are changing. the left has an ambivalent relationship with big corp representation because they know these same consumer bases will be dropped the moment it's economically feasible or politically necessary, as we see under trump; while i don't believe the crackdown on corps has quite influenced media that much yet (although it has in some ways), we have seen it with a bunch of massive conglomerates prematurely kowtowing to him before his administration even had to ask them. this is why the left would have an issue with this; corps do it for the money, not to influence people, so the moment money stops talking, they're right out again.

point is, rainbow capitalism is nomenclature that may be pulled from a weird media environment, and if you don't go further into what you mean by it (esp since it seems to be a requisitite for you "accepting" these stories), people may get the visceral reaction shown in lex's jpg. to put it in simple terms, you used a dogwhistle (mindedly! one i don't think you were aware of) and didn't elaborate further in a statement that more was required for you to accept trans stories or something. i think the way i explain it to you may have the reaction make sense. i'm not trying to convince you that the reaction is fair. i'm appealing to your sense of pragmatism here. you hopefully now better understand why it causes a reaction in people. and you may do with that what you will.

second part (or the former; that they being well-written is necessary for you to accept them), this is a more general appeal that isn't often talked about. fictional stories of trans people shouldn't have to be well-written to be accepted. lgbt media exists in a weird space because it needs well-written stories to achieve legitimacy, but people generally want a space where it shouldn't have to. like, consider any random action flick from the 90s, like, one you don't actually remember because it was just a generic, forgettable piece of media. those movies are usually just cis stories. very few people get upset at cis people dominating that kind of media. sometimes they're just crap movies. there are thousands of them. ideally, the left want the world to be in a place where lgbt presence in media can just exist without being heralded as a woke failure specifically if it's both bad and has lgbt in it. dragon age veilguard comes to mind.

the left wants a status quo where humans can be humans, where movies with gays in them can just exist and be bad without people thinking a movie with gays in it has to be good in order to be legitimate. like - the left wing idea is that the movie may be crap, but it's just a movie. people don't generally rage at a forgettable action flick as if it was bad because it pushed cis representation.* so a movie being bad should be just that; as in, it actually doesn't have anything to do with the lgbt presence. does that make sense?

now if it was all your position, good, like, i'm not even criticizing your position. i don't know what it is. i'm trying to clarify for you why the phrasing was unfortunate.

*they do sometimes, but it has to be really f cringe for that to happen; these kinds of things only really treated with the same vitriol if they're both really bad cringe and anti-woke (whatever the latter means). the left loves 300

 

[Lexicus]

I do not know how to explain it to you since I’m referring to media like literature, movies, and video games since those would be the forms that would help me understand without getting chewed out. It should be clear in my statement of “rainbow capitalism” that I have skepticism with the entertainment industry.

I guess I was wrong expecting a good faith discussion and trying to learn when I just get a meme response.

That image is simply a good faith expression of my emotional response to reading what you wrote, that said more than I could have said using words

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

This is what they want. The only question is how to stop them.

who?

btw, out of curiosity, I had to go to like 3 different other sites besides a snip from twitter to find more on the story. though I've yet to find a passage which says this person was "kicked off" the swim team as opposed to, say, this person might have quit the team.

Middlebury College senior remembered as gifted student, athlete, and friend: ‘Everybody knew her’ - The Boston Globe

Lia Smith, 21, was set to graduate next spring with a double major in computer science and statistics and was a decorated diver.

www.bostonglobe.com

Middlebury College senior remembered as gifted student, athlete, and friend: ‘Everybody knew her’​

By Claire Thornton Globe Staff,Updated October 29, 2025, 4:41 p.m.

Lia P. Smith, 21, was a Middlebury College senior whose Oct. 2025 death was ruled a suicide.Courtesy of Middlebury Police Department
A Middlebury College senior who died earlier this month is being remembered as a talented athlete, a sharp STEM student and a beacon for the LGBTQ community at the Vermont liberal arts college.
Lia Purcell Smith, 21, came to Middlebury from Woodside, Calif., and was set to graduate next spring with a double major in computer science and statistics. She was reported missing Oct. 19, and her body was found several days later in a field west of campus, near the college’s organic farm.
On Friday, the Middlebury community learned Smith’s death had been a suicide, with the college’s President Ian Baucom expressing his heartache in a message to students.
“I have spoken with Lia’s family to express my heartbreak,” he wrote. “As president, and far more as a fellow parent, I ache for them. This is a profound loss that nobody should have to endure.”
Smith was a decorated diver and had competed with the Middlebury team after participating in leagues throughout elementary, middle, and high school, according to her obituary.

Related​

Body found near Middlebury College campus during search for missing student
She was well-known on Middlebury’s campus, especially in the Department of Mathematics and Statistics, always greeting people with a warm wave, asking questions, and spurring good conversations, said statistics lecturer Emily Malcolm-White.
“Everybody knew her,” Malcolm-White, 35, said. “If you took a class with Lia, you would know it, because she had a very present energy.”
This fall, Smith was one of the favorite teaching assistants in the department, guiding introductory students through coursework and helping run class. Smith not only aced her own tests but was widely recognized as a lynchpin among statistics professors, said Malcolm-White, who taught Smith in the fall of 2024.
This summer, when professors were creating class schedules, several practically fought over who would get to have Smith as their TA, she said.
“She wasn’t the kind of student that just floated by, she was really in there, making connections between things,” Malcolm-Smith said.
Many students at Middlebury double major but usually choose contrasting studies, such as a humanities major paired with one in STEM, Malcolm-Smith said. Smith’s choice to major in two STEM fields was evidence of her deep interest in the topics, Malcolm-Smith said.
Among students, particularly her fellow STEM majors, Smith was “the glue” that brought people together over homework, often collaborating and double-checking that people got the same answers, Malcolm-White added.
But her interests and passions stretched far beyond academics, according to the obituary published online by her family.
She loved poetry, played piano and trombone, was fascinated by the histories of China, Japan and Medieval Europe, and enjoyed outings to eat sushi and poke, the obituary said.
Smith had a “deep sense of empathy,” as well as a robust and infectious laugh.
In high school, Smith volunteered for various organizations and won a scholarship from the local rotary club, according to her obituary.
On campus, Smith wasn’t afraid to talk with other students about her transgender identity, according to Malcolm-White.
In February, as part of a panel discussion on transgender healthcare, Smith told attendees that people seeking gender-affirming care face a harsh reality of hateful rhetoric and a patchwork of laws governing treatment.
But, she said at the talk, there is always a strong LGBTQ community to rely on for support.
“Know that there are people in your community that are here for you and care about you,” Smith said, according to a report in the Campus, Middlebury’s student newspaper.
Smith graduated from Sacred Heart Preparatory School in Atherton, Calif., where a memorial service will be held on Sunday, according to her obituary. She was an active member of Iris, an LGBTQ club at the school, according to friends who commented online.
She is survived by her parents Keith Purcell and Greg Smith, and sisters Olivia and Evelyn Smith, the obituary says.
Thousands have viewed the online obituary, which includes more than a hundred photos of Smith, highlighting her childhood diving accomplishments and beloved pastimes.
“She enjoyed anime, adored her cat, Edgar, loved playing Bridge and complex board games, and delighted in just hanging out with her girlfriends,” the obituary says.
Dozens of public comments posted online express condolences.
“I will miss her silly chuckle, and the endearing niece-given name, Uncle Jeffie. I will miss those gorgeous blue eyes, that somehow always noticed you without you noticing, hidden behind her long beautiful flaxen hair. I’ll miss the multiple twist and flip dives at Stanford,” wrote Jeff Smith.
Some commenters identified themselves as allies of the LGBTQ and transgender community.
“I didn’t know her, I’m just from Middlebury. And I held my breath with y’all throughout this entire process, hanging on to any thread of hope that there would be another outcome,” wrote Ashly Spannbauer. “The entire state of Vermont stands with your family in this moment. I am so sorry for your unimaginable loss. As a mother, my heart breaks. As the sister of a trans woman, and as a daughter.”
Even in deep blue Vermont, LGBTQ youth suffer from higher rates of suicide and self-harm compared to their cisgender and straight peers, Dana Kaplan, executive director of group Outright Vermont, said on Tuesday.
The state has a stereotype as being “all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,” but on the other hand, “you have young people who are deeply struggling to feel seen and valued and loved for who they are,” he said.
At Middlebury, Smith was a member of the women’s swim and diving team through February 2023, according to the team’s website.
In the news article about the LGBTQ panel discussion from earlier this year, Smith was introduced as a former athlete.
Beginning that month, Smith, as a transgender woman, would have been prohibited from competing on the Middlebury women’s swim and dive team, in accordance with NCAA rules released in February which limit women’s sports to people assigned female at birth. The NCAA said its new rules were implemented as a result of an executive order by President Trump.
In a post on X Monday, Middlebury alumna Ari Drennen said the start of this year’s swim and dive season arrived around the time Smith went missing. Drennen, who said she identifies as trans and graduated from the college over a decade ago, noted that Smith would have been barred from competing with the women’s team this year.
“Now, as the 2026 season kicks off, she’s dead. Rest in power, Lia. The world is so cruel sometimes,” the post said.
Baucom announced that there will be opportunities in the coming days to gather on campus and remember Lia.
“She was a gift to us and we are so grateful that she was – and will always remain – a member of our Middlebury family," Baucom said.
Smith’s family has requested that, in lieu of flowers, people donate to the Prism Center for Queer and Trans Life at Middlebury College.
If you or someone you know is struggling with symptoms of depression, you can reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline by dialing or texting 988, or chatting 988 at 988lifeline.org.

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[danjuno]

who?

Transphobes, obviously. It's not that hard to find people wishing death or otherwise removal from society on trans people.