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[RD] LGBTQ News II

They, the government, right wingers and the useful idiots like Jesse Singal are actively making it impossible to openly be trans or transition but sure, go on @Klaus Hergersheimer

What do you think will happen to trans people if the option to Transition and alleviate gender dysphoria is removed from them?

I know what will happen, do you?
 
Earlier this year, a trans teen committed suicide and her last tweet, a haunting photo from the high place from which she jumped to her death, became a right-wing meme spammed in the replies of any post by any trans person. This is just one thing I have seen in "the discourse." Now, this isn't literally people saying "trans people aren't human" but I hope you can see that the underlying sentiment is basically identical?

Now think about this: I'm cis. This was one 'incident' I happened to see unfold online. How much goes on that I don't see, because it isn't happening to me?
Well I see that as horrendous and cruel and bullying, but what it isn't is a debate about humanity.
 
this terminology (and even your political affliation, i don't actually know it) is technically fine,
I’ve been pretty much describing myself as politically homeless and have been in a state of questioning, scrutinizing, and doubting the old anti-SJW narratives.
but lacking further definition, it feels icky to people savvy as to what's going on in media. the interesting thing is that the critique of the structures in place also exist from within the left, where i've seen pink capitalism being thrown around, for example. leftists generally aren't too happy with cynical commodification of identity or vapid, empty products that has some rainbow plastered over it. but the problem, then, is capitalism, not the lgbt component. rainbow capitalism often builds into conspiratorial positions of capital, in that they conspire to push lgbt, invade cis spaces, or whatever ideas exist in the grifting mill. the leftist position (and the position of right wing people outside the grifting mill) is that businesses don't care, it's literally just them adapting to a changing market, because demographics are changing, therefore changes and ties to identity in the players are changing. the left has an ambivalent relationship with big corp representation because they know these same consumer bases will be dropped the moment it's economically feasible or politically necessary, as we see under trump; while i don't believe the crackdown on corps has quite influenced media that much yet (although it has in some ways), we have seen it with a bunch of massive conglomerates prematurely kowtowing to him before his administration even had to ask them. this is why the left would have an issue with this; corps do it for the money, not to influence people, so the moment money stops talking, they're right out again.

point is, rainbow capitalism is nomenclature that may be pulled from a weird media environment, and if you don't go further into what you mean by it (esp since it seems to be a requisitite for you "accepting" these stories), people may get the visceral reaction shown in lex's jpg.
I wish I can better paraphrase on its definition or had access to a better word for “corporation(s) that only advocate and push for progressive ideas in the name of profit” that hasn't been tainted and/or cooped by the right and right wing grievances shill mongers. The leftist criticism you’ve presented does piqued my interest.

to put it in simple terms, you used a dogwhistle (mindedly! one i don't think you were aware of) and didn't elaborate further in a statement that more was required for you to accept trans stories or something.
I’ll admit that I’m very much unaware that the term is a dog whistle. Especially since it doesn’t strike me as the traditional infamous dog whistles used in the past. Should I have elaborated further? I should have in hindsight to avoid or mitigated any faux pas.
second part (or the former; that they being well-written is necessary for you to accept them), this is a more general appeal that isn't often talked about. fictional stories of trans people shouldn't have to be well-written to be accepted. lgbt media exists in a weird space because it needs well-written stories to achieve legitimacy, but people generally want a space where it shouldn't have to. like, consider any random action flick from the 90s, like, one you don't actually remember because it was just a generic, forgettable piece of media. those movies are usually just cis stories. very few people get upset at cis people dominating that kind of media. sometimes they're just crap movies. there are thousands of them. ideally, the left want the world to be in a place where lgbt presence in media can just exist without being heralded as a woke failure specifically if it's both bad and has lgbt in it. dragon age veilguard comes to mind.

the left wants a status quo where humans can be humans, where movies with gays in them can just exist and be bad without people thinking a movie with gays in it has to be good in order to be legitimate. like - the left wing idea is that the movie may be crap, but it's just a movie. people don't generally rage at a forgettable action flick as if it was bad because it pushed cis representation. so a movie being bad should be just that; as in, it actually doesn't have anything to do with the lgbt presence. does that make sense?
In a way, it does. Though, I don’t know how to express it in a way since I’ve been burnt out by the lies the right wing shills pumped out that I’ve, more or less, taken a cynical perspective. The lefty ideal you’ve presented seems to be more appealing than the anti-“woke” slop the shills scoop out (I’ve gotten to the point months ago that I got tired of the junk).
now if it was all your position, good, like, i'm not even criticizing your position. i don't know what it is. i'm trying to clarify for you why the phrasing was questionable
I guess my new problem is expressing my position that doesn’t utilize the old language that ends up getting me into the receiving end of “pwning the chud”.
 
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I guess my new problem is expressing my position that doesn’t utilize the old language that ends up getting me into the receiving end of “pwning the chud”.

This is a real problem though, both for you and society in general with groups competing to promote their preferred words to favour the expression of their ideas. Getting your term as the neutral/default does a bunch of the recruitment for you.
 
Yes it is. They're both engaging in bullying/harassment, but also making a statement to various audiences. That makes it political.
I don't agree at all. And at the risk of being accused of "whataboutism" you see similar horrendous bullying online between different groups or individuals online all the time. It's not usually characterised as questioning the humanity of the target group, even less so as a "debate".

It's not that anti-SJW spaces are literally saying "trans people aren't human" in those exact words, it's that between the suicide memes, the insults and slurs, the legal pushes against their rights, and general nastiness, they send an overall message of not believing their lives have value, because they're trans.
I will 100% be accused of whataboutism with this one, but don't you think that a lot of "leftist towards rightist" attitudes could be characterised quite accurately as "insults and slurs and general nastiness"? Maybe no "suicide memes" directly, but very much lots of (in)direct sentiments of supporting murder ("Who's next?"-type comments after every shooting of a Kirk/Trump/Insurance CEO for example). It's not that I even particularly care about these reactions in and of themselves, and in this case I'm not even complaining about the double standard, I'm just saying that nobody, even those targetted (to my knowledge), characterise any of that as a debate about their humanity.
 
Well I see that as horrendous and cruel and bullying, but what it isn't is a debate about humanity.
Trans people are routinely labelled as predators and risks to cis women and children, the lowest of the low in society in what way is that not debating or degrading someone's humanity
 
I’ve been pretty much describing myself as politically homeless and have been in a state of questioning, scrutinizing, and doubting the old anti-SJW narratives.

I wish I can better paraphrase on its definition or had access to a better word for “corporation(s) that only advocate and push for progressive ideas in the name of profit” that hasn't been tainted and/or cooped by the right and right wing grievances shill mongers. The leftist criticism you’ve presented does piqued my interest.

The point we're trying to get at is that most corporations aren't even really pushing or advocating progressive ideas in the first place, they just recognized that there's a market out there for stories with gay and trans people in them, or that some people wanted video game character customization to give them more options for things, and they recognized that giving off the appearance of supporting equal rights is good PR that costs them nothing besides changing their Twitter profile pic to rainbow colors in June- in some places, in some times, but the moment the pendulum shifts they abandon that faux-support, and in more conservative parts of the world like China or the Middle East they never even pretended in the first place. It's, for lack of a better way to describe it, "Virtue Signalling" in the most cynical, corporatist way possible.

So it's kinda bewildering to the rest of us when there's a certain subset of people on the right that consider even that level of shallow support and representation, consisting of a few more menu options in games, and a couple of gay characters briefly appearing in the background of a summer blockbuster (which they can easily remove if they want to release it in a less accepting place), and a few bland social media posts, to somehow be "the woke left is forcing transgenderism on the rest of us!" Because they only got 36 video game protagonists this year who were stoic muscly straight white marine man with a gun when last year they had 37. Like somehow, if we don't treat one very specific archetype of person as the Normal Acceptable Main Character and anyone else is a degenerate weirdo, if we dare to acknowledge other identities exist and should be respected, that's pushing a nefarious agenda? It's like when Christians hear someone say "Happy Holidays" and go on a rant about the War on Christmas, never mind that plenty of people are still saying Merry Christmas and celebrating it and it's one of the biggest holidays of the year.

I’ll admit that I’m very much unaware that the term is a dog whistle. Especially since it doesn’t strike me as the traditional infamous dog whistles used in the past. Should I have elaborated further? I should have in hindsight to avoid or mitigated any faux pas.

Well yeah, that's kinda the point of a dog whistle, that they sound innocuous enough to not immediately inspire revulsion and can be adopted by more "normie" people who don't recognize it as a dog whistle. You can't always clearly recognize them. If you want to try to get better at not using them, a good way to start is to consider whether it might be subtly reinforcing some kind of right-wing narrative, but failing that, just stop using it if someone points out to you the problem with it.

I guess my new problem is expressing my position that doesn’t utilize the old language that ends up getting me into the receiving end of “pwning the chud”.

Okay, you've mentioned this concern about being on the receiving end a few times, so please listen carefully:

The vast majority of us aren't responding to you to try to "pwn" you, or bully you, or invite everyone to point and laugh at you, or get some kind of social one-up on you by showing how bad of a person you are. We're responding to you because we think you're saying things that are wrong and hurtful, whether you meant to or not, and we want you to recognize that and cut it out. If we ever seem a bit angry or impatient at you when we do this, it's because a lot of the time, we've already explained the same thing to you, again and again, and every time you say you want to get better but the lessons never seem to stick, and on top of that, any time someone tells you "hey not cool" you respond by making it all about how bad it makes you feel that someone would "attack" you like that.

As I, and countless others, have been trying to explain to you for two decades, someone giving you negative feedback is not a personal attack on you. It's often not even about you, it's about all the other similar harms a marginalized person has to deal with and you end up as the straw breaking the camel's back, and someone saying words wrong, even if not intentionally so, is an easier thing to change than a bunch of centuries-old institutional systems of oppression. It's not, in isolation, that bad that someone says a bad thing, but if you have to deal with hundreds of people saying the same things it can get really frustrating, especially if when you tell one of them to stop they just make excuses for it, or act offended or hurt that you're accusing them of something and now you have to manage their emotional reaction to it as well, and that's incredibly exhausting, on top of already feeling upset at what the person said in the first place.

Accidentally hurting someone doesn't make you a bad person, we all do it sometimes. But when you do, and they tell you they're hurt, you're supposed to apologize, do what you can to heal the harm, and work on how to not do it again in the future. If you instead try to make excuses for it or act like the real problem is that they're yelling at you for it, then you're being a jerk.
 
NHS threatens GP practice over trans care

WellBN GP Practice treats around 26,000 patients and is based over three surgeries.

In recent months they have faced an investigation by the Sussex Integrated Care Board (ICB) for continuing to prescribe puberty blockers and hormones to under-18 trans patients, even though this is perfectly legal.

The UK ban on puberty blockers

As of March 2024 puberty blockers are banned in the UK to treat gender dysphoria in under-18s. This decision followed the much discredited Cass Review. A government website describes the ban as the “sale and supply of puberty blockers via private prescriptions for the treatment of gender incongruence and/or gender dysphoria to be banned indefinitely in the UK for under 18s.”

The website also mentions that

NHS patients who are already receiving these medicines for gender incongruence and/or gender dysphoria can continue to access them, as can patients receiving the medicines for other uses.
This means treatments that have already started should not be stopped suddenly, and patients already taking puberty blockers should still be able to obtain them and access healthcare via normal NHS routes. GPs were advised at the time of the ban to continue prescriptions from the private sector if they felt comfortable doing so.

NHS Sussex has given us a statement

A spokesperson for NHS Sussex said:

Following concerns raised about some prescribing for children and young people by WellBN in Brighton and Hove, that may fall outside of national clinical policy and guidance, we are working with NHS England and have launched an investigation into this activity to ensure the most appropriate care and treatment in line with national clinical policy.

Independent clinicians are reviewing medical records and prescriptions will continue during this process. We recognise this may be worrying for families, and our priority is safe, evidence-based care, with access to appropriate specialist services and support.

NHS Sussex is not seeking to close the WellBN practice. Outside of the investigation, the practice continues to operate as normal.

“It’s horrific what NHS are doing to us”

Parents of children receiving trans healthcare at WellBN have described life as “truly awful’’ and “really hard to keep going’’.

Laura’s daughter Olive(not their real names) began taking puberty blockers when she was just 12. In the past four years of treatment her daughter has undergone full female puberty. Her body has developed feminine characteristics – including full breast growth.

Laura described the blocker ban as ‘forced detransition’ and ‘inhumane’. The impact of the ban on her child has been severe, as reported previously.

My child stopped eating and was on suicide watch, she was going to take her own life. She couldn’t look in the mirror and [imagine] having a deep voice and beard.
She explains the horror and distress caused by WellBn being investigated.

It’s horrific what NHS are doing to us, We said no to [them] accessing our patient files and they threatened the senior lead drs to close the entire practice. They still breached data.

A review of medical notes

Laura’s daughter has now received a letter from Sussex ICB about the situation. The letter stated:

A team of health professionals will review your medical notes and understand how you have been provided with the specific gender medicines.

The review will be to see how the medicines were given to you, whether they have caused you any harm, and how you can be best supported for the the future.’’

Laura calls it “a predetermined investigation”.
She believes so much harm is being done to her child by the government. As she explained earlier:

You can’t just rip children off these meds years into transition. My daughter is tanner stage 5 [Breast Development]. She never entered male puberty. Your jaw would drop if you saw her. I can’t let these people win.

They know this is likely to cause suicides. They don’t care! We jumped through every hoop for years and we followed what the government asked of us. I’m in Surrey, her doctor is in Brighton, you can imagine what this is doing to us.

The situation has gotten so much worse

Robyn (not their real name), who has a child registered at WellBN describes the situation as “gotten so much worse’’

Things have gotten so much worse, we had a meeting with WellBN last night with an update and the ICB have said that they are no longer allowed to prescribe puberty blockers to under 16’s, regardless of the fact that these are children who were prescribed before the ban. They will not be talking to us or our child, some anonymous medical team, they won’t tell us who, will review their records and decide a medical plan moving forward without ever having a conversation with us.

All children will be referred to Gids [Gender Identity Development Service}, and or CAMHS [Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service]. They will speed up our referral to Gids and they [Gids] will not be prescribing [Puberty blockers] either. My child isn’t even in the list, we took him off 2 years ago and now I’m being told I have no choice. So, forced detransition for all under 16’s, well those who can’t afford to go private. I’m being told they are working on laws to stop us accessing private health care also.

They have also said that no GP in this country will be prescribing blockers, regardless of the fact they were started before the ban. Which is completely the opposite of what the law states, and completely against the letter we were all sent after the ban came into place. We were told that GP’s would take over the prescription. Except no GP would, only Dr Sam, which is why we all went to him. We did exactly what we were told to do and now we are being treated like criminals for it.

I am really really angry and we keep getting told the information we are being given is private and confidential but I cannot sit on this anymore, they are destroying the lives of our children and we are being expected to sit back and quietly take it.

The suffering is reaching crisis point

Laura and Robyn are just two examples of parents with a trans child/children in the UK. Like them, most are agonising over their health and well-being.

Laura fears all will be lost if ICB Sussex forces her child off the medication.

If ICB Sussex get their own way in a matter of weeks and they force detransition, Olive may well take her life.
Laura is determined not to let that happen.

They will have to pry her repeat NHS prescription out of [my] dead clammy hand. I’m going to be a problem for these people, that’s a promise.
This is an incredibly tough time to be trans in the UK. Please reach out and support trans people in your community. You may just save a life by doing so.

A staff member at WellBn had this to say

NHS Sussex threatened closure in April and September, by withdrawal of GMS contract.

They ignored staff concerns. Resulted in staff holding extremely harrowing meetings with families traumatised.

NHS Sussex has not met with families. They’re not seen, or heard. They have been erased.
They describe it as “terrifying” and feel “sickened”.

It’s so horrible, mental health suffering. So unjust and cruel.

Dr Sam Hall gave a statement

Dr Sam Hall who used to work at WellBN Clinic, said:

NHS Sussex have twice threatened WellBN with withdrawal of the GMS [General Medical Service] contract held by the GP partnership. WellBN have been looking after trans youth for over 5 years with the full knowledge of NHS Sussex and NHSE. Why is this suddenly an issue?

This is a bullying tactic designed to scare them into withdrawing life-saving care, despite warnings from coroners about the risk to life for trans young people.
 
The British government needs to be sanctioned over this stuff
 
Well to my mind, there is a distinction between

(a) outright making certain medical procedures illegal; and
(b) regarding them as largely elective procedures
that are not necessarily funded by the state.

But this is meant to be a news thread rather than a debating thread,
so I am not sure I wish to go down that path.
 
I don't know about you @EnglishEdward but I'm more concerned with trans people being denied healthcare because they aren't cis than with my turn of phrase
This is a flawed statement because the procedures in question aren't anything that anyone identified as being cis would ever have, by definition.
 
This is a flawed statement because the procedures in question aren't anything that anyone identified as being cis would ever have, by definition.
Puberty blockers are widely used in cis children for all sorts of reasons.
 
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