LGBTQ news

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by bernie14, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    For added context getting one’s gender changed on their family registry in Japan is not an easy task - it requires that the person have (expensive) gender affirmation surgery, be sterilised, be unmarried and have no children under the age of 18. There are many valid reasons for a person not to pursued (or have no intention of pursuing) gender change on their family registry.

    This one. Even adding the qualifier “not started transitioning” may not be true because lets be real the police have not traditionally been charitable to transpeople.

    How many of them are willing to risk serious jail time and/or are willing to outright lie to the police?
     
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  2. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    Yes or no - do you believe transwomen are women? The only way your argument makes sense is if you don’t believe transwomen are women. And if that is the case I’d politely ask you to stop posting in this thread.
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

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    I don't think serious jail time is ever part of the equation for minor nuisance calls like this.
     
  4. MaryKB

    MaryKB Goddess Queen Supporter

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    As a ciswoman, I find it offensive that we demand transwomen "start transitioning" before being recognized as women. I find the very idea that she has to "pass" appalling. Women come in all shapes and sizes across the spectrum, and the idea that you've got to meet some kind of attractiveness expectation is deeply rooted in misogyny.

    Ciswomen can be over 6 feet tall. We can have short hair. We can have body hair. We can even have facial hair. We can have deep or raspy voices. We can have calloused skin. We don't all look pretty, but that doesn't make us any less of women.

    You shouldn't be required to do anything to be accepted for who you are.
     
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

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    I think it’s just a natural consequence, to the extent it can be said, that we have to make decisions based on incomplete information.

    To take a less heated issue as an example, should everyone be carded for alcohol purchases or should the shop workers have some autonomy in choosing when to demand identification?

    I don’t know what the answers are or how to build the ideal society, just saying that this is how I see things work as they are.
     
  6. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    The comparison makes little sense - I’ve been carded before and I left my ID at home. I wasn’t immediately arrested by police afterwards, I just couldn’t buy anything.
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

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    I didn't mean to imply that the legal issues were of great consequence in this comparison. I was more trying to find an issue where appearances are judged and decisions made without having the exact information.
     
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  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Interesting question. When does a man become a transwoman? When does a transwoman become a woman? Do we need a "trans" aspect to the gender tag?
     
  9. MaryKB

    MaryKB Goddess Queen Supporter

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    Not a fair comparison. It's illegal to sell alcohol to minors. It's not illegal to be a human being.
     
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  10. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

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    I have not made the case that it should. As a human, it would be against my self-interest.
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    The question isn't about whether anyone is a human being. In many cities and towns there are existing ordinances about who is allowed in gender designated bathrooms and locker rooms. They may or may not be rigorously enforced. Companies also have rules for such places too. If laws or rules are in place, then it is a legal issue and that will call for improved clarity about who is what, when, and where.
     
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  12. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Oh hey there Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, Aung San Suu Kyi, and Margaret Thatcher!
    Historically, it wasn't like female rulers were known for their compassion and kindness. The Byzantine Empress Irene had her son blinded in such a brutal fashion he died from wounds a few weeks later.
    Women are no more or less compassionate or peaceful than men.
     
  13. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    I would recommend asking this question in the "Ask a Transperson" thread.

    I believe lief erikson is currently implementing (or has implemented) a non-binary option for the gender section which would probably be sufficient. I would strongly advise against having separate options for gender for transpeople on the forum (e.g male/female/transmale/transfemale/other or male/female/trans). It would not be well-received as it implies that being a transman/woman is separate from being a man/woman as opposed to being a subset of being male/female.
     
  14. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    Those laws and rules are completely impractical and usually unjust. Enforcing them makes life worse for everyone, especially transpeople. It always comes back to the logistics of an enforcement mechanism. To enforce it you would need bathroom bouncers checking everyone's IDs. A massive inconvenience for everyone and deep humiliation for transpeople to solve a non-problem. Or perhaps we would have Florida style genital inspections! I don't have to even pretend this horrendous nonsense is a hypothetical anymore because Republicans made it legal for sports coaches to inspect children's genitals in Florida.

    The only solution is to tear up the rules and to go to an honour system which has been completely sufficient in most parts of the western world. There is no epidemic of men sneaking into women's bathrooms to do illegal things and if a man wanted to go into the women's bathroom to do something illegal no amount of laws or rules demonising transpeople will stop them.
     
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  15. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    I wasn't thinking about cfc gender tags. But depending upon how one answers the questions I put out there, the trans tag might not be needed in general. The trans tag implies that there is a process needed to move one's gender from one to another and it is not just a personal decision. If there is a process, then there is a "beginning" and an "end". Today I am a man. On today + x steps I will be woman. That raises the question: At what point in that process would I be "woman enough" to use a woman's public bathroom or locker room?
     
  16. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    Why do you feel that trans people should be restricted to a set of criteria that is created fore the sake of cis-people's understanding, when not only does that already happen in a multitude of aspects but also harms trans people?

    You only have to take a cursory look through trans communities to see this is harming them and yet the constant demand from cis society is to double down on it

    I just want you to imagine if i came up to you and asked you to justify your existence by forcing you into a strict definition of what you are and then claiming to be confused when you inevitably bristle and push back against those attempts
     
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  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    @Cloud_Strife I wrote a long reply to your post and then thought you would only take offense. Maybe I'll send you a pm later. :)
     
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  18. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Shades of the Sun

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    Pretending that you don't see a difference between the sign in question and the traditional men's room/women's room signs is dishonest and a bad faith argument.
    "They" is people who feel hostility towards trans people and anything they see as liberal causes and "they" are trying to "warn" folks sympathetic to their ideology that they should be angry and afraid of said trans people and liberal causes. "They" have mal-intent towards trans people and liberal causes and "they want to get attention" from like minded people.
    You're wrong. And you only think that because its your MO to twist yourself into illogical and non-sequitur arguments/positions rather than just admit you were wrong in the first place.
     
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  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Shades of the Sun

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    You're now taking the position that you view the sign as literally equivalent to Jim Crow... but you're still in favor of displaying it?!?:dubious: It's fascinating that you are actually arguing in favor of what you yourself see as Jim Crow against trans people, on the basis that trans people will benefit... from Jim Crow. The Civil Rights movement exposed the evil of Jim Crow and the need to get rid of it... so you are in favor of bringing back Jim Crow... so we can have another Civil Rights movement to get rid of it again?:confused: Just don't bring it back in the first place!

    As an aside, you've repeatedly taken a position of opposition to Black Lives Matter... so the nonsensical way that you are now trying to extoll the benefits of Jim Crow, in order to ostensibly inspire a new Civil Rights movement... that you will then oppose (as the "woke crowd" or similar) just like you oppose BLM... is irony and absurdity of the highest order:crazyeye:. You obviously oppose trans people's causes and masking that in a position that instituting a new Jim Crow for trans people will somehow benefit them is... ridiculous.
    And people who hate and/or are angry and afraid of trans people will explain to their children that trans people are bad and that the kids should hate trans people as well. Forcing people to explain their prejudices to their children is not going to suddenly cure them of the prejudices, on the contrary, it focuses them on coming up with justifications for the prejudice. Kids are not in any position to logically deconstruct the ideology of their parents. They will just adopt it, for the most part.
    The fact that you would use a phrase like "the goal of the woke crowd" is pretty conclusive evidence that you are clueless about the goals of the people you are talking about.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
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  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Creator

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    I think you actually (paradoxically) need a binary system to account for non-binary. As in "x isn't 0 or 1, but one can be any progression of 1s and 0s and still be TG". For example, someone who consciously has no intention to transition, and (hypothetical) consciously wishes to at times be regarded as TG and at times as non-TG. The issue creates problems regarding legal stuff, otherwise we know from experience that you never are aware of what the other person is, impressions are mostly projections.
    Some TG is 0110, another 1011, another millions of 0s and 1s, another some 0s and 1s at times and at other times either 1 or 0, and you can't build a law without categories.

    Other than the law part, though, it is the norm (everyone is like that in various traits, it's not just a TG issue), so it's not surprising that it happens, nor that people fight about it and project their own views and so on.
     
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