[LH] Barack Obama

[GarretSidzaka]

@Wolfshanze
not to pry, but you are 35+ years in age, right?

@Shqype
I dont think america will ever see a decent candidate, when the prerequisites for candidacy are money and corporate sponsorship.

 

[Sisonpyh]

No, that's not by my logic.

Well you've used that shoddy logic in a few different posts now. And it certainly wasn't Obama's logic if you actually listened to what he was saying.

I know that Obama won't make it in the White House, but keep rooting for your poster boy:

Well you sure showed us Obamaholics why he shouldn't be President with that one.

 

[Xenomorph]

Because John Kerry or Al Gore (who invented the internet) was such a great option that would save America... oh, and for the record, Osama bin Laden did officially endorse Kerry.

True, though any good analyst would be able to figure out that an endorsement from someone as reviled as Osama would have the voting populace vote for the other guy, which is exactly what Osama did.
References:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/070306.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Percent_Doctrine
http://words-of-power.blogspot.com/2006/07/hard-rain-journal-7-5-06-al-qaeda.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_06/009102.php

 

[GarretSidzaka]

True, though any good analyst would be able to figure out that an endorsement from someone as reviled as Osama would have the voting populace vote for the other guy, which is exactly what Osama did.
References:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/070306.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Percent_Doctrine
http://words-of-power.blogspot.com/2006/07/hard-rain-journal-7-5-06-al-qaeda.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_06/009102.php

very f***ing interesting

 

[phungus420]

Of course Osama wanted Bush to be reelected, the man has been his greatest recruiting tool ever. Also no person has done as much damage to the United States as Bush.

Also Wolf, and other neocons, I guess you will keep thinking that if we fight them over there, they wol't fight us over here or whatever nonsense has you believe in Bush's failed policies. But it makes no sense. Nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, so how ever you can twist that into fighting in Iraq is going to stop more crazy Sunnis from attempting it again is inconceivable to an informed and rational mind. But Ossama's love of Bush is a good indication of how great the war in Iraq has been for the nutball Islamists anyway. Although to a secularist, in the proud American tradition, like I am the Islamic radicals are far closer to Bush's base then anyone of my ideology, so I can see why they feed off each other.

It boggles the mind that people support a policy of America torturing people, destroying our currency, increasing the debt exponetialy, and destroying international law with a Vietman style quagmire entered into under false pretenses. Then again it boggled my mind when I was in the military that the majority of my fellow soldiers swore their life to defend the constitution, yet failed to read it. I mean christ, the thing is written in plain english, takes 15 minutes to read, and they friggin swore to die if it were necessary to protect it. I mean I took the oath, but I knew what I was pledging my life to defend. It's my oppinion though that the majority of Bush supporters and conservitives in general care more about abstract symbols like flags, and flaunting patriotic gestures, then they do about the actual concepts of America, and what the country really stands for.

I'm proud to be an American, I'm proud of our history, the fact we litterally spawned liberal government in modern times. I'm proud of the fact we never tortured people before, allowed freedom of speech and religion, and even built up our most bitter enemies after WWII. Sure we did some bad things like slavery and what happened to the native Americans, but given the context of the times, it's not like the US was any worse then the rest of the Industrialized world, and on the Whole America has been one of the greatest influences on the world.

Sadly though, Bush, and his ilk have turned away from everything we as Americans could be proud of, and instead has driven us down a road that is fearfully similar to a certain central European country circa 1928 (yes I went there, and yes I believe this, and yes I am that concerned of what has happened to my country, I mean Jesus People, the United States is torturing people now!).

 

[GarretSidzaka]

word
(you're drunk too, like me)

 

[dutchking]

Well my step grandfather has just said to us that he's not voting for Obama (but is democratic) "Because he just doesn't have the experience". Besides that "experience" is pretty much bad at this point I think its just because he's black. The older generation is still stuck in the days before civil rights it seems. Kind of ironic since he fought in WWII and everything..

 

[avain]

Well my step grandfather has just said to us that he's not voting for Obama (but is democratic) "Because he just doesn't have the experience". Besides that "experience" is pretty much bad at this point I think its just because he's black. The older generation is still stuck in the days before civil rights it seems. Kind of ironic since he fought in WWII and everything..

That's exactly what I thought would happen. There's nothing new under the sun.

Great LH BTW!

 

[Xenomorph]

Well my step grandfather has just said to us that he's not voting for Obama (but is democratic) "Because he just doesn't have the experience". Besides that "experience" is pretty much bad at this point I think its just because he's black. The older generation is still stuck in the days before civil rights it seems. Kind of ironic since he fought in WWII and everything..

It's interesting to point out that Obama actually has more years in office than Hillary. You might also want to point out some of our past presidents that entered office with little experience. Lincon only had several years in his state's legislature as a representative (those two-year guys). He had absolutely no experience in running a war. He never had more than a high school education. In terms of experience, he had less than any of our presidential candidates in the last two decades.
I think it's somewhat "ironic" that in the state of Minnesota, there's lots of support for Obama. Keep in mind that Minnesota is predominantly people of scandinavian origin with only a small population of blacks, or anyone else of a minority ethnic origin, almost all of which are focused in the two largest cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, commonly called the "Twin Cities" because they have grown to overlap each other.

 

[Shqype]

@Wolfshanze
not to pry, but you are 35+ years in age, right?

@Shqype
I dont think america will ever see a decent candidate, when the prerequisites for candidacy are money and corporate sponsorship.

Yes, you're right.


But just like there are those that won't vote for Obama because he's black, you have those that are only voting for Obama because he's black.

 

[Shqype]

And as for the US torturing people.

I completely support it, as long as we put Jack Bauer in charge

 

[mourndraken]

word
(you're drunk too, like me)

It's weird that a funny creative guy gets stuck with so many boring political defense threads. Is it already time for Bush II ? Amazing LH.
Remember that coffee only makes a wide awake drunk guy ...

 

[dutchking]

Yes, you're right.


But just like there are those that won't vote for Obama because he's black, you have those that are only voting for Obama because he's black.

True, people shouldn't be voting based on the guy's race.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

But just like there are those that won't vote for Obama because he's black, you have those that are only voting for Obama because he's black.

Would you vote for a Serb candidate for the office of president of Kosovo, if he were better qualified than the Albanian candidate?

 

[Wyz_sub10]

True, people shouldn't be voting based on the guy's race.

Ideally, yes. But in practice it is not that simple.

White =/= Black in terms of "races" in the United States for two major reasons.

1 - the power has only ever been wielded by one of those groups; it's not like one group can identify with the other. Blacks have never been in a similar position of power over whites

2 - "black" is far, far more defining than white. If you are black in the US, you are black first. Anything else second. This is not the same for whites (maybe it *is* the same for Asians or Latinos)

You cannot entirely fault a black person who chooses a candidate based primarily on skin colour - the idea that that person will better relate to their issues, better understand them, better represent them is a very real and logical position.

And that position is a legitimate reason for supporting a candidate.

 

[Shqype]

Would you vote for a Serb candidate for the office of president of Kosovo, if he were better qualified than the Albanian candidate?

First and foremost in order for that to be a possibility there has to be a number of prereqs (CIV):

1) I would need to be a citizen of Kosova.
2) The Serb candidate would need to recognize the legitimacy of the office he is running for, he would need to be born in Kosova, he would need to be unbiased, not prejudiced against Albanians, and concerned wholly with improving the country and acting in the best interest of all the people of Kosova.

Once those conditions were met, and an ethnically Serb citizen of Kosova ran for president against an ethnic Albanian that was not as qualified, then I would vote for the better candidate, regardless of ethnicity.

But if he was biased against Albanians, if he was instructed by a Serbian Orthodox priest which preached discrimination against Albanians, which said "God Damn Kosova," which baptised his children and influenced him for a significant part of the candidate's life, and the candidate's wife for the first time in her life was "proud to be a citizen of Kosova," and he himself spoke about "typical Albanians," etc. etc. , then I would not vote for him.


I don't feel people should vote based on a candidate's "race," but unfortunately that's the reality for many.

 

[ripple01]

I'm planning on voting for Obama if he gets to the general, but I'll vote for Nader if Hildawg gets the nomination...

Cheers,
ripple01

 

[Wyz_sub10]

First and foremost in order for that to be a possibility there has to be a number of prereqs (CIV):

1) I would need to be a citizen of Kosova.
2) The Serb candidate would need to recognize the legitimacy of the office he is running for, he would need to be born in Kosova, he would need to be unbiased, not prejudiced against Albanians, and concerned wholly with improving the country and acting in the best interest of all the people of Kosova.

Once those conditions were met, and an ethnically Serb citizen of Kosova ran for president against an ethnic Albanian that was not as qualified, then I would vote for the better candidate, regardless of ethnicity.

Fair enough.

But if he was biased against Albanians, if he was instructed by a Serbian Orthodox priest which preached discrimination against Albanians, which said "God Damn Kosova," which baptised his children and influenced him for a significant part of the candidate's life, and the candidate's wife for the first time in her life was "proud to be a citizen of Kosova," and he himself spoke about "typical Albanians," etc. etc. , then I would not vote for him.

Also fair enough. Although I would caution against painting one too much with the colour of is company.

I have family and good friends who have influenced me in positive ways, but have also done and said some pretty stupid things. At the end of the day, you need to judge the man.

I don't feel people should vote based on a candidate's "race," but unfortunately that's the reality for many.

Nor do I. I'm only saying that the feeling - warranted or not - that a candidate will better represent you if he shares something significant with you is not as trivial as some might suggest.

One of the factors that pushed Bush over Kerry was the widespread belief that Bush was a better guy "to have a beer with", combined with his portrayal as a average Joe - unlike the "granted" billionaire, Ivy League, New Englander John Kerry.

(...despite the fact that GWB was also a "granted" billionaire, Ivy League, New Englander)

 

[Shqype]

I understand what you're saying, and you do bring up a valid point that it's not as easy as some suggest. But people need to understand that if a black man votes for a black man because they can "better relate" to each other, then a white man may not vote for a black man because they can't "better relate" to each other. It goes both ways. Yet, if a white person were to say something like that, he would be ostracized for racism or prejudice.

I have a huge problem with reverse discrimination. It's a huge double standard; as I said earlier, if a white candidate were to speak about "typical black people" there would be riots on the streets. But for many it's OK for a black candidate to talk about "typical white people."

I don't support discrimination or racism of any kind. I believe a candidate should be judged by his merits, not his skin color.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

I'm planning on voting for Obama if he gets to the general, but I'll vote for Nader if Hildawg gets the nomination...

Cheers,
ripple01

Dude, exactly what i had planned. I won't vote for hilary in good conscience for the things she has done and supported. She, like her husband, is a criminal, and she is two-faced about the issues.

who knows, if all the obama people do this, we might at least get Nader