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[LH] Barack Obama

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Graphics Modpacks' started by GarretSidzaka, Mar 23, 2008.

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  1. dutchking

    dutchking Deity

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    Reading Comprehension? How the hell is it my fault I can't understand any of your Second Language English? Learn to speak a little and write properly and someone could give a crap about your idiotic political views. Maybe we actually do need the Electoral College with people as thick as you still walking around the streets.
     
  2. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    this is what i was afraid of. i dont think we can do anything for him. his only hope is that he will make a friend in RL that will try to help him with this.
     
  3. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    Why has the executive branch chosen to give seven hundred billion dollars to Wall Street banks? What are the "dire consequences" we face if we don't give the republicans their "quick and clean" Wall Street bailout? The dire consequences are spelled out here: http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/its_the_derivatives.php In this article entitled Its the Derivatives Stupid the real bubble that is in danger of bursting is spelled out, it is the hedge funds market.

    Here is a quote:

    The answer may have less to do with saving the insurance business, the housing market, or the Chinese investors clamoring for a bailout than with the greatest Ponzi scheme in history, one that is holding up the entire private global banking system. What had to be saved at all costs was not housing or the dollar but the financial derivatives industry; and the precipice from which it had to be saved was an “event of default” that could have collapsed a quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble, a collapse that could take the entire global banking system down with it.

    There are a total of sixty trillion dollars out there in the world in actual wealth, like real goods and services. Yet there are a thousand trillion dollars, or a quadrillion dollars, in derivatives. If this bubble bursts we're all screwed. Whats happening with hedge funds and mutual funds amounts to a run on the bank. Derivatives are smoke and mirrors, this is a house of cards, ready to collapse now at the slightest nudge. Republicans are just throwing money at the problem trying to keep the economy from collapsing until after the election, we're getting two more months for our seven hundred million dollars.

    Phil Graham, McCain's economic advisor, and Allan Greenspan deserve the most blame for this mess. Where were the alarm bells a few years ago? A new CNN poll shows that American's blame the republicans for this crisis by a 2 to 1 margin, and rightly so. Phil Graham wrote these lax regulatory laws and Greenspan repeatedly bailed out Wall Street, to keep the economy going well, and this gave them the idea that they could get away with anything. Corporate America has run amuck under this executive branch.

    Senator McCain said on 60 Minutes last night that he "deregulation has probably been good for the economy." He also famously said "this economy is fundamentally strong."
     
  4. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    The democrats are correct to attach some strings to this "bailout." Executive compensation should be limited, these corporate executives should not earn any more money than the president. Some of this money should go to help people who have suffered foreclosure, and prevent future predatory lending. New regulatory laws should be put in place, to prevent this happening again. These banks should no longer be able to lobby the government, or contribute to any campaign. This bailout shouldn't be "quick and clean" like the Bush administration wants. We should have learned after 9/11 not to give these people in this executive branch too much leeway in the event of a crisis.

    Now that the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department and the Executive Branch are controlling these financial firms, our government has become a corporation. This fits Musollini's definition of Fascism. The government is now a corporation, and Secretary Paulson is the new Musollini. This is at the very least socialism. Where are all the free market fundamentalist conservatives now? Why are they not questioning this "bailout" strongly?
     
  5. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    McSame thinks if he simply says the words "reformer and regulation enough he will somehow fool people. McCain was right in the middle of the last great economic crisis, the Savings and Loan scandal, as one of the Keating Five.
     
  6. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    :confused: Corporatism and corporation are two very different things. And although Mussolini started out as a socialist, both he and Mr Hitler got very well along with corporations (and vice versa).

    Also, government intervention in private enterprise has been around for quite a while now and I don't see how the present financial situation could be solved without it. At any rate, it certainly doesn't qualify as socialism.

    Almost forgot to mention: the McCain campaign team have criticized the NYT, well, for being critical. Which they consider inappropriate for "a journalistic organization" (which the rest of the world knows as "a newspaper") and a sign of support for Obama. This in response to a critical question.
     
  7. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    If I didn’t know better, I would say I was psychic…..

    jeff, u have called obama "some sort of African foreigner to be feared", a "black radical to be feared by whites", i think u called him a thug too....your words not mine....

    and y do u continue to argue the misleading “deregulation lead to this financial crisis point” when u know it is untrue? U know that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was enacted in 1999 and signed into law by bill clinton…..u know that in 2003, the bush administration recommended what the NY Times called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."…..u know that the democrats opposed the changes and they eventually failed to happen.....u know that barney frank claimed "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."..... U know that mccain cosponsored the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, precisely expressing concern regarding fanny and freddy and addressing golden parachutes for the likes of raines and johnson…..u know that the reform act never made it out of committee because chris dodd, then the ranking member of the banking committee and now its chair, was in the middle of receiving preferential loan treatment from countrywide mortgage, one of the companies gaming the system in the credit crisis.

    barny frank and chris dodd should be tarred and feathered (IMO)

    y also know that obama has recieved more as much from wall street than mccain but "obama's list gives the appearance that he has not leaned so heavily on bundlers working on Wall Street, although since his campaign has ignored repeated requests from the Center for Responsive Politics and other watchdog groups to disclose his bundlers' employers and occupations, these figures are probably undercounts".....so much for full disclosure.....

    u know that it is a plain lie that obama has recieved his money from "the little guy $5 at a time"....here r the real numbers ... it is a non-partisan site and i encourage everyone to look through it carefully....

    given all this information, i guess democrats will have to rely on those "low information voters" that u claim belong to republicans.....

    and to add a little example of the hipocrasy of the "freedom of speech" democrats...this is the reason the anti-iran groups HAD to disinvite palin.....did u happen to see which group were the major contributors to obama....lawyers?.....
     
  8. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    “I don’t understand when people are going around worrying about, we need to have English only. They want to pass a law, we just, we want English only,”...... “Now, I agree that immigrants should learn English, I agree with this. But understand this, instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, they’ll learn English, you need to make sure your child can speak Spanishbarack obama


    can u say merci beacoup? :p
     
  9. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    From the Founding Fathers of the United States Wiki:

    The signers of the Constitution had extensive political experience. By 1787, four-fifths (41 individuals), were or had been members of the Continental Congress. Nearly all of the 55 delegates had experience in colonial and state government, and the majority had held county and local offices.[5]

    The 1787 delegates practiced a wide range of high and middle-status occupations, and many pursued more than one career simultaneously. They did not differ dramatically from the Loyalists, except they were generally younger and less senior in their professions.[6] Thirty-five were lawyers or had benefited from legal education, though not all of them relied on the profession for a livelihood. Some had also become judges.[7]
    • At the time of the convention, 13 men were merchants: Blount, Broom, Clymer, Dayton, Fitzsimons, Shields, Gilman, Gorham, Langdon, Robert Morris, Pierce, Sherman, and Wilson.
    • Six were major land speculators: Blount, Dayton, Fitzsimons, Gorham, Robert Morris, and Wilson.
    • Eleven speculated in securities on a large scale: Bedford, Blair, Clymer, Dayton, Fitzsimons, Franklin, King, Langdon, Robert Morris, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, and Sherman.
    • Twelve owned or managed slave-operated plantations or large farms: Bassett, Blair, Blount, Butler, Carroll, Jenifer, Mason, Charles Pinckney, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, Rutledge, Spaight, and Washington. Madison also owned slaves, as did Franklin, who later freed his slaves and became an abolitionist.
    • Broom and Few were small farmers.
    • Eight of the men received a substantial part of their income from public office: Baldwin, Blair, Brearly, Gilman, Livingston, Madison, and Rutledge.
    • Three had retired from active economic endeavors: Franklin, McHenry, and Mifflin.
    • Franklin and Williamson were scientists, in addition to their other activities.
    • McClurg, McHenry, and Williamson were physicians, and Johnson was a college president.
    Yes, lawyers, scary indeed... I can think of only one category that might be scarier: politicians.;)
     
  10. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    politicians, yes scary....and u just wrote an entire post about how the vast majority of scary politicians are..LAWYERS

    dont knock lawyers too much though, i would rather be a country of laws and precedent than some theocracy....the problem is when the power is abused, as it was with the anti iranian groups and palin....
     
  11. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    Bernie, the republicans have no problem with lawyers when it comes to defending Palin in the TrooperGate scandal, they have a whole team of lawyers up in Alaska trying to kill a bipartisan investigation.

    Bernie, who are you kidding, deregulation has been one of the cornerstones of conservative economic policy, you know this.

    You know I didn't call Obama any of those things, you republicans are trying to portray Obama as "some African foriegner to be feared" with this pointless story about his long lost half brother. Rush Limbaugh, and that racist scumbug Guiliani are using the term "community organizer" in a way that makes it seem synonymous with "black radical to be feared by whites."

    All this will not matter, the economic crisis trumps all this crap about race and lipstick on pigs and the like. Once again, the country is blaming the republicans for this by a 2 to 1 margin. Wolfson has 600 million dollars of his own money in the stock market, and was CEO at Goldman Sachs, giving him seven hundred billion dollars is like letting the fox run the hen house. Most of the money from this "bailout", will conveniently go to Goldman Sachs.

    McCain voted for the same legislation Clinton signed in 1999, and he voted for Graham's legislation from 2000 that was rammed home during the Gore v. Bush stolen election down in Florida. All this deregulation, came from the mind of Phil Graham, he wrote the bills. McCain hired him to be his top economic advisor, and would have named him treasury secretary, if it weren't for Graham calling the American people "whiners" for complaining about the economy. This entire bailout is just a band-aid however to keep the economy for collapsing until after the election, to give McCain at least a small chance to win, or at least to keep it close so it doesn't look so bad when the republicans steal the election.
     
  12. dutchking

    dutchking Deity

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    This nation isn't Spanish, and I'm not about to give in to 13 million illegal "immigrants" and learn their language. If you're going to insult me about my not being able to understand your gibberish, then you're beyond a moron.

    My ancestors came here in 1639, they were English. This nation is English, and its language is English.
     
  13. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    McCain has 177 lobbyists working for his campaign. He even has lobbyists working for The Financial Services Roundtable who are also working for his campaign. These lobbyists work for Wall Street investment banks, and are currently lobbying Congress to get favorable terms for these banks in this "bailout."

    Despite these facts, McCain has the nerve to go around saying he's going to take on lobbyists. He even has the audacity to attack Obama for hiring a former Fannie Mae lobbyist to vet his veep pick when his veep vetter Arthur Culvahouse currently works for Fannie Mae. McCain's transition chief William Timmons Sr. works for Freddie Mac.

    Here is another great article from Mother Jones that lists all the lobbyists currently working for the McCain campaign, and a quote from that article.

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog...ccain_campaign_lobbyists_wall_street_aig.html

    "Of those 177 lobbyists, according to a Mother Jones review of Senate and House records, at least 83 have in recent years lobbied for the financial industry McCain now attacks. These are high-paid influence-peddlers who have been working the corridors of the nation's capital to win favors and special treatment for investment banks, securities firms, hedge funds, accounting outfits, and insurance companies. Their clients have included AIG, the newest symbol of corporate excess; Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy on Monday sending the stock market into a tailspin; Merrill Lynch, which was bought out by Bank of America this week; and Washington Mutual, the banking giant that could be the next to fall. Among these 83 lobbyists are McCain's chief political adviser, Charlie Black (JP Morgan, Washington Mutual Bank, Freddie Mac, Mortgage Bankers Association of America); McCain's national finance co-chairman, Wayne Berman (AIG, Blackstone, Credit Suisse, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac); the campaign's congressional liaison, John Green (Carlyle Group, Citigroup, Icahn Associates, Fannie Mae); McCain's veep vetter, Arthur Culvahouse (Fannie Mae); and McCain's transition planning chief, William Timmons Sr. (Citigroup, Freddie Mac, Vanguard Group)."
     
  14. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    You're right Jeelen, what republicans really have going here isn't fascism, or socialism, it's a kleptocracy.
     
  15. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    jeff, u r correct in stating that deregulation in general is a positive factor for a market economy, however, in 1977, the Community Reinvestment Act created a governmental OVERSIGHT to supposedly help (force banks to) provide credit to the "underserved populations".....the rest is history...everyone here has had the opportunity to read the time line....your "deregulation blanket statement" just dont cut it.....and unfortunately, since the truth is not likely to be reported consistently in the popular media, obama and his people can continue to use the misleading, snake oil, smoke and mirrors, BS claims to fool the american public, resulting in numbers like your CNN poll.....how unfortunate

    as a person with such different views to republicans, u certainly assume that u KNOW (there we go again) how republicans think...how does that work exactly, is it some sort of democrat x-man power? u have NO idea (nor the right IMO) to claim to know how someone else thinks, especially if thier views differ from yours.....

    and now the kicker, i qoute the center for responsive politics, factcheck, wikipedia and the congressional record to show how obama has lied about his associations to wall street and lobbyists, where he is really getting his money from, how the democrats have F * us all..... and u quote a leftist cr*p site like.... "motherjones"....:lol: :eek: :lol:.....don't waste people's time like that.....

    how's this from "Political Buzz"...."However, Obama’s got other problems with trying to lay this mortgage meltdown at the feet of McCain. If the Congressional record is to be believed, in 2006, McCain supported and tried to pass legislation to rein in Fannie and Freddie and predicted, if they weren’t, it would cost the taxpayers a bundle and would have adverse mpact on the financial market and financial institutions. Looks like he was right. It also reported the democrats joined by a few business as usual republicans killed the legislation.

    It’s suggested that opposition to the bill was the result of the influence Fannie and Freddie bought in Congress by making contributions to members of Congress, From 1999 to 2008, the list of members receiving contributions indicates Obama got the second highest amount of contributions, and he was only in the senate for 3 of those years."

    as the truth comes out, maybe the poll numbers will change...and there is more to come....:)
     
  16. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    and they call me racist....dutch dont embarass yourself
     
  17. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    Bernie, I never said deregulation is good for the economy.

    Yeah, Wikipedia is a very well respected source compared to Mother Jones, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, Mother Jones is well respected for people with a clue.

    I'll say it again, you can't deny it, deregulation has been the cornerstone of conservative economic policy going back to Hoover.

    Facts are facts whether they are inconvenient for you or not Bernie, that Mother Jones article is well researched.

    It's something if McCain really did try to rein in Fannie and Freddie considering most of the people who work for his campaign lobbied for those companies, including his campaign manager, veep vetter and transition chief. So, yeah, the truth is coming out, McCain is two faced, he goes around complaining about Fannie and Freddie, trying to link Obama to people who worked there who have never worked for the Obama campaign, and Obama has never met, while most of the higher ups at the McCain campaign have made millions trying to protect those companies from regulation.

    The polls are going to change Bernie, the public will cease believing republican garbage, and place the blame for this financial collapse where it belongs, with the republicans. That 2 to 1 margin will probably become 3 to 1.

    Here is yet another great article from conservative columnist George Will at the Washington Post. Even he thinks McCain is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off in the face of this crisis. He writes, correctly, that:

    "Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

    Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."


    Couldn't have said it better myself, and Will is no liberal, he's one of the more respected conservative columnists around. Here is the link to his article.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202583.html
     
  18. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    LOL that is beautiful. i have said that statement before and its nice to hear it here :D
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Here's the full text of that article:

    McCain Loses His Head

    COMMENT

    washingtonpost.com readers have posted 1359 comments about this item.
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    » Links to this article

    By George F. Will
    Tuesday, September 23, 2008; Page A21


    "The queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said without even looking around."
    This Story
    View All Items in This Story
    View Only Top Items in This Story

    -- "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
    Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.
    Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."

    To read the Journal's details about the depths of McCain's shallowness on the subject of Cox's chairmanship, see "McCain's Scapegoat" (Sept. 19). Then consider McCain's characteristic accusation that Cox "has betrayed the public's trust."
    Perhaps an old antagonism is involved in McCain's fact-free slander. His most conspicuous economic adviser is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who previously headed the Congressional Budget Office. There he was an impediment to conservatives, including then-Rep. Cox, who, as chairman of the Republican Policy Committee, persistently tried and generally failed to enlist CBO support for "dynamic scoring" that would estimate the economic growth effects of proposed tax cuts.
    In any case, McCain's smear -- that Cox "betrayed the public's trust" -- is a harbinger of a McCain presidency. For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are "corrupt" or "betray the public's trust," two categories that seem to be exhaustive -- there are no other people. McCain's Manichaean worldview drove him to his signature legislative achievement, the McCain-Feingold law's restrictions on campaigning. Today, his campaign is creatively finding interstices in laws intended to restrict campaign giving and spending. (For details, see The Post of Sept. 17; and the New York Times of Sept. 19.)
    By a Gresham's Law of political discourse, McCain's Queen of Hearts intervention in the opaque financial crisis overshadowed a solid conservative complaint from the Republican Study Committee, chaired by Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the RSC decried the improvised torrent of bailouts as a "dangerous and unmistakable precedent for the federal government both to be looked to and indeed relied upon to save private sector companies from the consequences of their poor economic decisions." This letter, listing just $650 billion of the perhaps more than $1 trillion in new federal exposures to risk, was sent while McCain's campaign, characteristically substituting vehemence for coherence, was airing an ad warning that Obama favors "massive government, billions in spending increases."
    The political left always aims to expand the permeation of economic life by politics. Today, the efficient means to that end is government control of capital. So, is not McCain's party now conducting the most leftist administration in American history? The New Deal never acted so precipitously on such a scale. Treasury Secretary Paulson, asked about conservative complaints that his rescue program amounts to socialism, said, essentially: This is not socialism, this is necessary. That non sequitur might be politically necessary, but remember that government control of capital is government control of capitalism. Does McCain have qualms about this, or only quarrels?
    On "60 Minutes" Sunday evening, McCain, saying "this may sound a little unusual," said that he would like to replace Cox with Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic attorney general of New York who is the son of former governor Mario Cuomo. McCain explained that Cuomo has "respect" and "prestige" and could "lend some bipartisanship." Conservatives have been warned.
    Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.
    It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?
    georgewill@washpost.com

    George Will is a well-informed conservative columnist. Small wonder the McCain campaign team rather focuses on who, when, where Obama met any of his acquaintances rather than talk issues. (Although I'm afraid the Obama campaign team is heading in the same direction, focusing now on McCain's cars, which, as everyone knows, is a matter of national interest.)

    No, I just showed that statistically the Founding Fathers were mostly lawyers. Those men weren't "politicians", they created the Constitution, hence the United States. If you want change, you'll need men educated in law, that's all.
     
  20. JeffIllinois

    JeffIllinois Prince

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    More news about McCain campaign manager Rick Davis. He has apparently been receiving checks from Freddie Mac up until last month. It all adds up to over $345,000.00 since 2006. This despite the fact that McCain has lied and said Davis stopped working for Freddie in 2005. More tough facts for John Two Face McSame.

    Here's the link at Newsweek:

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/160561/output/print

    Thanks Jeelen, that was a good article.
     
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