Libyans storm American consulate and murder Ambassador

[aelf]

Well, you can preach about democracy and liberty but the toxic influence of Western imperialism will always muddy the waters and lead to murder and chaos.

How about you open your EYES for a minute. Stop being a Muslims apologist. I'm done here. You people disgraced me.

Good. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That was the embassy releasing a statement - Obama had nothing to do with it. Romney is an idiot.

I'm sure he knows better. He just doesn't care about the cost that victory through his partisan tactics will impose on the country. Neither do his SuperPacs.

Well, you can preach about democracy and liberty but the toxic influence of Western imperialism will always muddy the waters and lead to murder and chaos.

Not true.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, you can preach about democracy and liberty but the toxic influence of Western imperialism will always muddy the waters and lead to murder and chaos.

The toxic influence of intolerance, price, bigotry, ignorance, and selfishness will always muddy the waters and lead to murder and chaos. The non-Western world is quite capable of creating its own sins just as we Westerners are. No need for us to overestimate our own importance.

 

[del62]

I think these incidents like the video are often used to carry out attacks planned in advance, probably trying to derail Libya, Egypt etc attempts at democracy. They were looking for an excuse and they found it in a video by some copts in america, Copts who are fleeing persecution in the middle east.

 

[DinoDoc]

That was the embassy releasing a statement - Obama had nothing to do with it.

Are we to believe that the Cairo embassy no longer speaks for the Administration? Did we get a metaphorical 3 am phone call and no one was home? When will the American ambassador be recalled since he no longer speaks for the US government?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Are we to believe that the Cairo embassy no longer speaks for the Administration? Did we get a metaphorical 3 am phone call and no one was home? When will the American ambassador be recalled since he no longer speaks for the US government?

The president doesn't tell every representative of the government or executive branch what to say/do all day every day. That much is obvious to everyone including yourself, but I can see how it's convenient for you/Romney to ignore reality to make a political hack attack on the president.

 

[Flying Pig]

Sometimes being diplomatic is more important than making a moral stand. Obama could refuse to acknowledge the motivations behind this attack, but it's far better to paint himself to ordinary people in Libya as a basically decent man, in the hope that they will then condemn rather than support the attackers and that it won't happen again. Anything else is secondary to that, really.

 

[Borachio]

Good. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

I like this. But, is this the toxic influence of irony that will always muddy the waters and lead me to confusion and such?

Poor old Elite, he's disgusted with you all. This is a fairly toxic thread. But about quite an important issue. Very strange.

 

[DinoDoc]

The president doesn't tell every representative of the government or executive branch what to say/do all day every day. That much is obvious to everyone including yourself, but I can see how it's convenient for you/Romney to ignore reality to make a political hack attack on the president.

Do you seriously belive that statement was put out by a low level employee without being cleared by State?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Do you seriously belive that statement was put out by a low level employee without being cleared by State?

The ambassador is high level enough he doesn't have to report to the State department for statements like this. And even if he did, again, it doesn't go straight back to the President. That's what Ambassadors and Secretaries of State are for.

 

[Quackers]

Sometimes being diplomatic is more important than making a moral stand. Obama could refuse to acknowledge the motivations behind this attack, but it's far better to paint himself to ordinary people in Libya as a basically decent man, in the hope that they will then condemn rather than support the attackers and that it won't happen again. Anything else is secondary to that, really.

No, Obama should grow a backbone rather then pander to a load of murderous extremists in a backwater alley like Libya. Anyway, if TF is to be believed these psychopaths are not in the majority.

 

[DinoDoc]

The ambassador is high level enough he doesn't have to report to the State department for statements like this. And even if he did, again, it doesn't go straight back to the President. That's what Ambassadors and Secretaries of State are for.

No one has said Obama personally sent out the statement. Only that it is patently ridiculous to paint this as the action of a rogue element rather than someone simply carrying out Administration policy.

 

[Flying Pig]

No, Obama should grow a backbone rather then pander to a load of murderous extremists in a backwater alley like Libya. Anyway, if TF is to be believed these psychopaths are not in the majority.

They aren't, at all, but how he reacts depends on whether normal people view them as 'basically right, but extreme' or 'totally wrong and deserving of condemnation'. I think your first statement is exactly what I was addressing - to be blunt, in real-world politics, there's just no room for that sort of attitude. You can make a moral stand, or you can swallow your pride and work with people: for Obama, maintaining relations with Libya's government is more important than showing outrage about this, and rightly so.

 

[aelf]

Not true.

The toxic influence of intolerance, price, bigotry, ignorance, and selfishness will always muddy the waters and lead to murder and chaos. The non-Western world is quite capable of creating its own sins just as we Westerners are. No need for us to overestimate our own importance.

Maybe there isn't anything in Western imperialism which contradicts Democracy but the majority of Western interventions do not create democracies, and whilst that may be down to other factors, you cannot ignore the effect that Western imperialism has on the nation's psyche and how it shapes the cultural attitudes of the nation.

No, Obama should grow a backbone rather then pander to a load of murderous extremists in a backwater alley like Libya. Anyway, if TF is to be believed these psychopaths are not in the majority.

But sometimes your backbone grows out of your back and pokes everyone's eyes out, which inevitably results in you being ripped apart by gunfire.

 

[DinoDoc]

for Obama, maintaining relations with Libya's government is more important than showing outrage about this, and rightly so.

Chris Stevens must be glad about the assistance the steadfast ally we have in the Libyan government provided before and during the recent attack in Benghazi.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

No one has said Obama personally sent out the statement. Only that it is patently ridiculous to paint this as the action of a rogue element rather than someone simply carrying out Administration policy.

It's not a statement of policy, it was a statement in reaction to real-time events that probably had no consultation to it. I hope you see the difference between an ambassador putting out a statement to calm people down and an ambassador putting out an official policy statement.

Chris Stevens must be glad about the assistance the steadfast ally we have in the Libyan government provided before and during the recent attack in Benghazi.

They fought off the attackers, saved the rest of the staff and have vowed to bring the perpetrators to justice. So yeah, I think he'd be glad.

 

[JtheJackal]

Diplomacy/= inappropriate undeserved apologies.

So when the KKK march through the city and the Mayor and such condemn such actions do you believe they are doing something inappropriate? Cause basically its the exact same thing just on an international scale.

 

[Quackers]

They aren't, at all, but how he reacts depends on whether normal people view them as 'basically right, but extreme' or 'totally wrong and deserving of condemnation'. I think your first statement is exactly what I was addressing - to be blunt, in real-world politics, there's just no room for that sort of attitude. You can make a moral stand, or you can swallow your pride and work with people: for Obama, maintaining relations with Libya's government is more important than showing outrage about this, and rightly so.

I'm just more of an idealist then you FP. On the other hand I don't even think the Libyan government takes the view that the mob has a legitimate moral reason for murder so the white houses apologism might be met with disbelief rather then approval. It looks like Obama is trying to placate the extreme parts of Libyan society, which is pointless because America is the enemy for these people. You got to have a bit of pride and backbone in what you believe in over political pragmatism. So far the murderous Libyans are the ones in the wrong not the US and it shouldn't have to legitimise the motivations for the murder by invoking a non-existent right to not be offended.

 

[DinoDoc]

They fought off the attackers, saved the rest of the staff and have vowed to bring the perpetrators to justice. So yeah, I think he'd be glad.

Citation needed. Oh wait:

He said Stevens, 52, and other officials were moved to a second building, deemed safer, after the initial wave of protests at the consulate. According to al-Sharef, members of the Libyan security team seem to have indicated to the protesters the building to which the American officials had been relocated, and that building then came under attack.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162...cluding-u.s-ambassador-j-christopher-stevens/

 

[Patroklos]

That was the embassy releasing a statement - Obama had nothing to do with it. Romney is an idiot.

No, it was the secretary of state, and like I saud the administration. You know who is in charge of that, right?