1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Licensing problems - Solved

Discussion in 'Civ4 - The Second Revolution' started by Kevin Ar18, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    I noticed that Revolutions contains some GPL licensed files from someone else. The GPL is a viral license which forces all of the other files in Revolutions to become GPL. However, I would like to be able to use some stuff from Revolutions without the GPL limitations. I assume that the rest of the code in Revolutions does not use borrowed GPL code and that you own the copyright to the rest of the stuff (aka you wrote it yourself). If so, is it possible to get a copy of Revolutions without the GPL code in it? I realize that the mod becomes non-functional then. However, I am not interested in the GLP files that are in the mod.


    Update: Thought I had a solution at one point. jdog5000 released a pack with the specific aspect of the mod I was looking for (the automated ai); however, come to find out that particular part has the GPL portions in it. :(

    Is jdog5000 a part of this project? Or did this project borrow code from jdog5000?
     
  2. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    Arizona
    no, theDale helped with this one's SDK elements, and Fabrysse created some new python and greatly modified GIR's Partisan Modcomp. Dale also helps with the coding of Civ4 itself.

    I myself merely assembled the xml components and graphics, as well as some tunes, and i cannot help you with the code. I suggest that you look at Dale's Combat Mod for alot of the code that was used in this mod, and of course, PM dale ;)

    ps: i cant remember who jdog5000 is, if i have met him, but he didnt submit (i dont think so)
     
  3. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
  4. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    Arizona
    i know that dale has been working on some proprietary code that would do that, but its his and i dont think he's releasing it to public. but dont quote me on this, coz i have a foggy memory.
     
  5. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Well if it's python then you can't help showing it to people as it's not compiled right? However, if it's a dll that I can just make some python calls to the internal code, then that would be fine. I don't need source code to the dll. But, I'm told Dale is busy right now. :) Oh well, maybe I should at least ask.
     
  6. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    Arizona
    Give it a shot around the evening, australian time
     
  7. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Well, he reply back, and he pointed me to AIAutoPlay. Also, you were right, he does have something better, but right now he can't release what he has.
    Post about it here:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4851809&postcount=4

    Now, I need a willing coder, or at least someone I can ask a lot of questions via AIM or something. Any takers? :)
     
  8. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    Arizona
    start a thread in creation and customizations
     
  9. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Were you aware that by including the GPL code from the alert mod and packaging it with the revolutions mod that you are forced to release all the revolutions mod code under the GPL license?
    The GPL license basically says that if your project relies on/is integrated with some GPL code and you then package the GPL code with the code that you or someone else wrote... then all the code (even the part you wrote) must be released under the GPL.

    I am trying to contact the original author of the alert mod (which has the GPL license) to see if he'll change the license. However, that it is the viral nature of the GPL that many are not aware of; the GPL is hardly free, but instead gets you involved in all kinds of licensing nightmares. [I personally prefer truly free source code licenses like the MIT or public domain (aka no license).]
    In fact, if Firaxis used this code in an expansion pack and did not release the rest of the code under the GPL license, then Firaxis would be violating the GPL license.
     
  10. Dale

    Dale Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,013
    And as I mentioned to you Kevin, if you read the Civ4 Firaxis license you'll notice that all modifications belong to them.

    Therefore by law of precedence, the Firaxis license applies to the mod, not GPl.

    Dale

    PS: You know, to get around it you could just program your own auto-AI using your own code. Just use the ideas from the original mod. There's no license on the idea. ;) BTW, my version was written from scratch, though I did it for other reasons, not a license one.
     
  11. Mergle

    Mergle Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    441
    To be clear, what this means is that it's a violation of the GPL to use someone else's GPL code in a Civ4 mod. As Dale correctly says, Firaxis owns the IP in the mods because of the Civ4 licence. Therefore, you are unable to abide by the GPL restrictions and *must not* use someone else's GPL'd code in a Civ4 mod. To do so is a violation of the GPL licence and hence copyright infringement of the GPL'd code.

    It's free as in speech, not beer.

    You can of course use your own GPL'd code (it's yours), but as Dale says you are then unable to enforce the GPL terms - you've given the code to Firaxis.
     
  12. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Technically, if I read the license right... I can use GPL code in any mod on my own computer, but once I distribute it along with any GPL stuff (part 2. b. of the license), then I must make everything GPL....

    I have no idea what the Firaxis license says or where it is at, so I cannot comment on that. (I see no license attached to the python files.) However, if the Firaxis license "infects" any code copied from Civ IV, then yeah, it would not be GPL compatable and it would mean that someone who releases their edits under the GPL would be violating the Firaxis license and misleading people by claiming it is GPLed. On the other hand, if someone can write code for Civ IV and not use any Civ IV code in the process, would they not then be able to release their code under the GPL? Would this not also mean that modders and Firaxis itself could not use the GPLed code without making everything GPL (per part 2.b.)?
     
  13. Dale

    Dale Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,013
    Directly from the Firaxis Civ4 license (off the CD):

    Note that LICENSOR = Take-Two Interactive and associates.

    Part a) specifies that all custom game materials (mods etc made by us) is owned by LICENSOR.
    Part b) specifies that no custom game materials can be placed under any other license (among other things).

    Therefore, LICENSOR has NOT given permission to place the stuff in question under GPL, so therefore the GPL license is invalid as it was not the original makers position to place it under GPL.

    You have no fear of GPL.

    QED!
     
  14. Mergle

    Mergle Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    441
    Yes, I agree, no Civ4 mods can be placed under GPL for the reasons you give.

    Therefore, if you have any code which *is* GPL'd (eg clever pathing algorithm) you cannot use it in a Civ4 mod as the GPL requires derivative code to be GPL'd. You can't make the Civ4 mod GPL, therefore you cannot use any GPL code in it.

    (Also, Kevin is of course also correct that you can do as you want on your own computer regardless)
     
  15. Dale

    Dale Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,013
    No, my point is the original GPL is INVALID due to the license terms of Civ4. The GPL on the user's code does not exist, and should never have been claimed on the code.
     
  16. Mozza

    Mozza Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    380
    There are over three hundred and fifty types of banana but less than a dozen are commercially available.
     
  17. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    Arizona
    ... ... ...
     
  18. Mergle

    Mergle Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    441
    I think we're talking at cross-purposes as I don't disagree with anything you've said. It's not possible to put a civ 4 mod under the GPL. Any licence terms purporting to do so are invalid.
     
  19. Kevin Ar18

    Kevin Ar18 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Would you say that the following kinda sums things up?

    1. According to the Firaxis license, someone could not take some Civ code and modify it and then release it under the GPL. This would violate the Firaxis license and would be falsely claiming that the code is GPLed.
    2. According to the Firaxis license, someone could not write code from scratch specifically for Civ and release it under the GPL.
    3. However, let's say someone wrote some code for another purpose (unrelated to Civ) and released it under the GPL. That GPLed code could not be used in Civ mod (unless you never distributed the mod).
    4. However, let's say that someone did take some GPLed code from the situation as outlined in point #3, and made it into a Civ 4 mod/library and released it under the GPL. Under this special situation, not only would this person be in violation of the GPL; but, if Firaxis also used this person's code, they'd also be violating the GPL, because the code essentially does contain true GPLed material (unrelated to Civ) at it's heart.
     
  20. Ploeperpengel

    Ploeperpengel academic precarity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,748
    Location:
    Berlin

Share This Page