Light In The East: Civs Of The Orient(And Beyond)

[Urdnot_Scott]

The Bayandurs behaved like statesmen rather than warlords and gained the support of the merchant and feudal classes of South Caucasus (present day Azerbaijan).

Despite internal fighting amongst Kara Yusuf's descendants after his death in 1420, and the increasing threat of the Timurids, the Black Sheep Turkomans maintained a strong grip over the areas they controlled.

I might be missing something but both of these extracts essentially just mean 'QQ was able to not completely suck, it actually ruled its territory for a while.' and I think its a bit tricky to try and design a civ whos primary attitude is 'Statelike' given its pretty much a basic assumption for all of the civs anyway

 

[Tarmont]

I might be missing something but both of these extracts essentially just mean 'QQ was able to not completely suck, it actually ruled its territory for a while.' and I think its a bit tricky to try and design a civ whos primary attitude is 'Statelike' given its pretty much a basic assumption for all of the civs anyway

Heh, might be because you usually make designs about civilizations that were actually important while I have dozens of barely noteworthy civs planned, but the trick is to exalt those attributes into infinity.

Alright so:

The Bayandurs behaved like statesmen rather than warlords and gained the support of the merchant and feudal classes of South Caucasus (present day Azerbaijan).

Something that relates either your "military power/lack of nearby military power/lack of any military power at all/disbanding military units/not having as many military units as you used to have" to specialists.

Despite internal fighting amongst Kara Yusuf's descendants after his death in 1420, and the increasing threat of the Timurids, the Black Sheep Turkomans maintained a strong grip over the areas they controlled.

Something that relates "being small near blobby civs/being at war with many people at once/being neighbour to civs that have denounced you" to "city combat strength/defensive combat strength/combat strength in friendly lands".

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Mneh... both of those angles seem to be hinged entirely on throwaway exerpts from Wikipedia and don't really make much sense. A bonus to small armies is odd because AQ had an army 100,000 strong at their heyday - just because they behaved like statesmen didn't mean they behaved like peaceful statesmen. Furthermore, staying strong against unfortunate odds is also a bit weird given they didn't last very long at all before outright collapsing in the face of some external pressure, though they did hold out against the Egyptians and the Turks so I could see it being a bit of a side benefit, for a UB or a little part of the UA.

A little research on EI has provided a few slightly more consistent angles. Uzun Hasan was an excellent administrator and was one of the earlier rulers to cotton on to the idea of balancing the urban artisans with the rural peasantry and wrote a lot of laws to prevent the exploitation of the peasantry while maximising their production. The code was still enforced for a long time after his death and was extensively studied by lawmakers and administrators across the Middle East and formed the basis for a lot of future thought on the topic. I feel like thats a slightly more interesting thing to make a civ out of, so, if I may:

Qoyunlu Empire​

Leader: Uzun Hassan
UA: Code of Uzun Hasan
For every four specialists in a city, farms yield +1 food, trading posts yield +1 gold, mines yield +1 production and receive +1 local happiness. While at war with a major civilisation, the defensive strength of cities is increased by 3 for every point of local happiness in that city.

UU: White Sheep (Replaces Lancer)
The White Sheep is available much earlier than the Lancer it replaces; at steel, rather than metallurgy but is slightly weaker. Furthermore, the White Sheep receives +10% combat strength and an additional movement point in friendly lands and a further +15% combat bonus when fighting an enemy with more cities than you.

UB: Sufi Order (Replaces Temple)
The Sufi Order, unlike the Temple it replaces, yields +1 culture and grants a further +1 faith on all specialists in this city. While at war with a major civilisation, the Sufi Order also increases the defensive strength of this city by 10% of its faith output.

 

[Tarmont]

Aw yiss

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ raise your warsheeps ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

 

[Natan35]

Mneh... both of those angles seem to be hinged entirely on throwaway exerpts from Wikipedia and don't really make much sense. A bonus to small armies is odd because AQ had an army 100,000 strong at their heyday - just because they behaved like statesmen didn't mean they behaved like peaceful statesmen. Furthermore, staying strong against unfortunate odds is also a bit weird given they didn't last very long at all before outright collapsing in the face of some external pressure, though they did hold out against the Egyptians and the Turks so I could see it being a bit of a side benefit, for a UB or a little part of the UA.

A little research on EI has provided a few slightly more consistent angles. Uzun Hasan was an excellent administrator and was one of the earlier rulers to cotton on to the idea of balancing the urban artisans with the rural peasantry and wrote a lot of laws to prevent the exploitation of the peasantry while maximising their production. The code was still enforced for a long time after his death and was extensively studied by lawmakers and administrators across the Middle East and formed the basis for a lot of future thought on the topic. I feel like thats a slightly more interesting thing to make a civ out of, so, if I may:

Cool design! Your best one, I think.
(On other news, I never heard of those people)

 

[COF]

Oh, I don't know man. That UA is too good. Like, I realize that most cities won't benefit from that but it can lead to some massive food production in cities.

And does it seem like Tarcisio is the one that's most interested in this civ? lol.

 

[Tarmont]

And does it seem like Tarcisio is the one that's most interested in this civ? lol.

I was interested in doing it before it was suggested here soooo yeah

 

[COF]

Well, if you want it do it, man. I am not too interested in it, at least not anytime soon.

 

[Natan35]

I was interested in doing it before it was suggested here soooo yeah

You seem more hyped for this civ then we are... It causes to a domino effect which eventually leads to white sheep as dinner hype!!!!

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Oh, I don't know man. That UA is too good. Like, I realize that most cities won't benefit from that but it can lead to some massive food production in cities.

And does it seem like Tarcisio is the one that's most interested in this civ? lol.

Well, there'd have to be a cap of course.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Would there? How many specialists can a city have anyways? It's not like this is the Hawaii civ that grants free specialists with every temple...

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

24 maximum, so if you built all of the relevant buildings and stuff you'd end up with a wheat farm having 10 food as their base yield, or 12 if you grabbed sun god and a granary. A tad much I reckons.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Err, I mean, yes, a tad much, but that'd require a ridiculous amount of efforth, (That's only accomplished with what, various wonders in city?).

I don't think the UA is overpowered in general, partly because it doesn't do much until well entered the game and because it requires a lot of effort to do overpowered stuff.

I believe it's a good tradeoff.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

It doesn't require any wonders, though 6 of them do come from guilds.

 

[Pouakai]

Although that's the technical limit, practically speaking you're not going to get that much. You need to have enough citizens working tiles to feed the specialists, so you'd need a population roughly twice as much as that, which couldn't be achieved except in rare circumstances and only by late game

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

I guess, but personally I'm just not that comfortable with a UA which is that powerful even if its the upper limit and very difficult to obtain - the fact that it is at all possible is a design flaw in my eyes. Then again I might just be overly critical since its my own design - I'm not sure what I think of it to be honest.

 

[Natan35]

Although that's the technical limit, practically speaking you're not going to get that much. You need to have enough citizens working tiles to feed the specialists, so you'd need a population roughly twice as much as that, which couldn't be achieved except in rare circumstances and only by late game

Tell me, Mr. President, do you have any idea how OP Hawaii is with freedom? No? Is I will tell you: very. 40 citizens in my capital, all specialist slot worked. Universal suffrage rules!

 

[Reedstilt]

Instead of "four every four specialists" in general, perhaps each effect could be tied to a type of specialists. Every four Merchants provide +1 Gold to Trading Posts; every four Engineer Specialists provide +1 Production to Mines; Scientists, I guess, give +1 Food to Farms. Every 2 Writers / Artists / Musicians provide +1 Culture to Landmarks, maybe.

 

[Alganon]

By the way. Is there anything known design for Laos?

 

[regalman]

By the way. Is there anything known design for Laos?

Yup! But I'll leave it to Sukritact to decide if he wants to reveal parts of it, since he is the co-author.