Like watching paint dry...

[bossconian]

Yes - CIV V is "Like watching paint dry..."


Amazon reviews.

476 Reviews
5 star:
(67)
4 star:
(53)
3 star:
(47)
2 star:
(89)
1 star:
(220)


This game is clearly broken. Period. No more discussion needed.


However very important discussion has to be started. How the marketing machine works these days and on which side is the civfanatics.com ? On ours - the members of comunity or is it just a part of the marketing machine. I remmeber posting plenty of request to build up a pressure on developpers to issue prelease demo of the game. I was accused of being troll. Instead we had such topics - "where to preorder" - "why the most expensive version is the cooles" - sticked to the top of the forum. I remmeber posting how ugly are the rivers and all graphics bugs whilst to the top of the forum we had a topic pinned "the graphics - the way it is meant to be played". We had plenty of posts of surprised people complaining how bad is the game whilst on the main page of the civfanatics portal we had a headline about lemmy and his full of compliments game narration.

So who do you represent guys ?


Below is part of a user's review from amazon of which I borrowed the title of my post.

"Professional reviews. Why did every professional game review outlet give Civ 5 high marks. 9/10. A+. Really? Every review I've seen has been the same. "It has hexes!" "It has city-states!" "One unit per tile!" "Ranged combat!" "Beautiful graphics!" I even saw reviews gushing over how cool the opening sequence was (you know, the one you can't skip). "

 

[ainwood]

However very important discussion has to be started. How the marketing machine works these days and on which side is the civfanatics.com ? On ours - the members of comunity or is it just a part of the marketing machine.

We are a fansite. We do not get any funding from Firaxis, steam or 2K. The only funding Thunderfall gets (minimal) is from advertising via Ugo (banner ads) although I think he may also get something via the amazon affiliates program.

 

[ohioastronomy]

I think that the OP is advocating that the site take a position on the quality of the game itself. To be honest, I don't see how that's feasible directly or wise in this case - who gets to decide? The site isn't designed that way. There certainly is precedent,however - No Mutants Allowed, the Fallout fan site, had a truly hostile relationship to Fallout 3 (although they seem to like New Vegas).

One thing that I do wish is that it might be nice to see the equivalent of a "reviews" section, where CivFanatics members could write their own, ideally with the option of having viewers rate them and have an easy way of sorting them based on ratings. Sort of like what Amazon does, except with a bit of a filter in terms of who writes and posts.

Another thing on my wish list is a truly critical perspective on new releases. A lot of us feel burned, and I do hope that at DLC/expansion time the site owners take advantage of the platform to get community feedback about perceived problems with Civ 5 and how they've responded.

Put another way - they've angered a lot of the community here, much more than prior releases, and they have some repair work. There is no sign that they've been interested in doing so.

 

[bonafide11]

Reviews usually have a limited time playing the game. If you only play the game for a few hours without any preconceived notions of the problems of the game, it does seem fun. Once you play it more, you realize the game has some flaws, but I still don't believe it's anywhere near a 1 or 2 rating. Most people giving it a 1 rating are overreacting because it didn't live up to the hype and wasn't as good as Civ IV.

 

[ainwood]

Another thing on my wish list is a truly critical perspective on new releases. A lot of us feel burned, and I do hope that at DLC/expansion time the site owners take advantage of the platform to get community feedback about perceived problems with Civ 5 and how they've responded.

The Civ5 Devs read our site, and read the criticism.
The_J, PieceOfMind, Ori and particularly Petek (awesome job by him), have really worked hard to categorise and verify bugs, and this is being used by Firaxis. I presume they're also looking at the improvement suggestions list.

Put another way - they've angered a lot of the community here, much more than prior releases, and they have some repair work. There is no sign that they've been interested in doing so.

Who is "they" that you are referring to here? Firaxis? 2K? Civfanatics?

 

[PawelS]

I trust professional reviewers more than those posting at Amazon. I'm slightly disappointed by the game though, for me it should have got an 8/10 instead of 9/10.

 

[ohioastronomy]

The Civ5 Devs read our site, and read the criticism.
The_J, PieceOfMind, Ori and particularly Petek (awesome job by him), have really worked hard to categorise and verify bugs, and this is being used by Firaxis. I presume they're also looking at the improvement suggestions list.



Who is "they" that you are referring to here? Firaxis? 2K? Civfanatics?

The developers, not the owners of the site, have some work to do. I think that the civfanatics team have done a fair job of dealing with the community reaction to the game. What has happened is that my trust in professional reviews has evaporated, bu that's a different matter.

 

[SuperJay]

It is absolutely ridiculous to expect a collection of Civ fans to unanimously back one opinion on any subject, let alone Civ 5.

Yeah, I'm disappointed with Civ5 too, but you know what? A lot of people here like it just fine. Wherever you fall on the Like - Dislike spectrum, we are all welcome to participate in this forum. If anyone feels very strongly about being part of "Pro-Civ5 site" or an "Anti-Civ5 site," I suggest you register a domain name and get coding.

 

[bonafide11]

It is absolutely ridiculous to expect a collection of Civ fans to unanimously back one opinion on any subject, let alone Civ 5.

Yeah, I'm disappointed with Civ5 too, but you know what? A lot of people here like it just fine. Wherever you fall on the Like - Dislike spectrum, we are all welcome to participate in this forum. If anyone feels very strongly about being part of "Pro-Civ5 site" or an "Anti-Civ5 site," I suggest you register a domain name and get coding.

What drives me crazy is how so many people (not saying you, other people) make it seem like you have to be "Pro-Civ V" or "Anti-Civ V" and there's no middle ground. There are some extremes on both ends, but the majority of people I would say are in the middle -- they enjoy the game, but are somewhat disappointed with it and believe/hope it could be better. That's definitely where I fit in.

 

[Countmonte8242]

I trust professional reviewers more than those posting at Amazon. I'm slightly disappointed by the game though, for me it should have got an 8/10 instead of 9/10.

Personally, I'll trust Civ fans who eat and breathe the series (at least for their gaming needs) vs. some reviewer that maybe played their copy for 20 hours and might have even played a bit of Civ4. Reviewers have to play a lot of different games. Civ fans in general (ie those that would be posting at Amazon) have played a lot more Civ in their lives than most of those writers that you would read a review by. There's little question in my mind as to who is more informed on the series and thus whose opinion I will trust more.

Not that it matters to me at this point to since I've made up my own mind first hand. The only end it matters towards is whether Firaxis actually believes a majority of Civ fans are unhappy with 5 and thus realizes they have made some bad choices that they hopefully don't repeat.

 

[SuperJay]

What drives me crazy is how so many people (not saying you, other people) make it seem like you have to be "Pro-Civ V" or "Anti-Civ V" and there's no middle ground. There are some extremes on both ends, but the majority of people I would say are in the middle -- they enjoy the game, but are somewhat disappointed with it and believe/hope it could be better. That's definitely where I fit in.

Right, that's why I pointed out the "spectrum" of like - dislike, because it's obviously not so black and white. But you're right, you'll get marginalized and painted with a broad brush whether you like it or not. I've been called A HATER more times than I can count around here, because I had the temerity to express my disappointment with some things. Just like you expressed appreciation for 1UPT and got called a Defender. It's ridiculous, but in a forum like this, people tend to think in toggle switches.

The sad part is, there used to be more folks around here who held the Middle Ground, but I think the Extremists chased them away. And while I'm pretty firmly in the 'dislike' camp right now, I don't take this game as some sort of personal affront and I recognize that my opinion could change if the game changes. (My problem now is that even after patches, I don't know if I'll be able to get myself to keep trying to play it.)

 

[ezwip]

After playing the game I couldn't believe the 9 and 10 stars it had received. I love the comments on Amazon after reading them about Civilization 5. So much so that for now on that is where I'll get my reviews on anything that I buy. The games that I do like get high marks and it's not this massive group of hate mongers. Regarding game reviews I think I'm going to take the word of the masses over a person trying to make a living on the interweb.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...x=0&y=0&sprefix=civilization+beyond+the+sword

BTS got 4.5 and 5 on Amazon.

Don't even get me started on that game reviewer that came in here and posted a link to a site saying it was an awesome review. Then we found out it was his review, and he was really just not a nice guy.

 

[Helmling]

What drives me crazy is how so many people (not saying you, other people) make it seem like you have to be "Pro-Civ V" or "Anti-Civ V" and there's no middle ground. There are some extremes on both ends, but the majority of people I would say are in the middle -- they enjoy the game, but are somewhat disappointed with it and believe/hope it could be better. That's definitely where I fit in.

Amen.

 

[Titan357]

Yes - CIV V is "Like watching paint dry..."




This game is clearly broken. Period. No more discussion needed.


However very important discussion has to be started. How the marketing machine works these days and on which side is the civfanatics.com ? On ours - the members of comunity or is it just a part of the marketing machine. I remmeber posting plenty of request to build up a pressure on developpers to issue prelease demo of the game. I was accused of being troll. Instead we had such topics - "where to preorder" - "why the most expensive version is the cooles" - sticked to the top of the forum. I remmeber posting how ugly are the rivers and all graphics bugs whilst to the top of the forum we had a topic pinned "the graphics - the way it is meant to be played". We had plenty of posts of surprised people complaining how bad is the game whilst on the main page of the civfanatics portal we had a headline about lemmy and his full of compliments game narration.

So who do you represent guys ?


Below is part of a user's review from amazon of which I borrowed the title of my post.

"Professional reviews. Why did every professional game review outlet give Civ 5 high marks. 9/10. A+. Really? Every review I've seen has been the same. "It has hexes!" "It has city-states!" "One unit per tile!" "Ranged combat!" "Beautiful graphics!" I even saw reviews gushing over how cool the opening sequence was (you know, the one you can't skip). "

Because amazon is the end all be all for game reviews?

Its not broken for me, I like it. A lot.

That's very strange, was he playing the same civ 5 I was? I seem to recall being able to skip the loading movie every time!

Its a loading screen, a very nice one at that. My pc is fast enough to skip it very shortly after it comes on, maybe a few seconds.
maybe his PC was not as fast as mine?

Maybe my pc sucks? but was better than his?
I just checked again, rigt as soon as the old mans face was visible (DX10/11) I can skip it.

Maybe I have dreamed all the 42 hours of fun (according to steam) and the 1,605 turn long marathon game (time end off) that resulted in a domination victory.

or the 1,081 turns diplo victory?

I like this game, I am sorry you do not.
Some people like it, some do not.
Amazon stats mean nothing.
I like pie.

 

[CivFanaticMan]

OK I agree that the game is broken and needs some major gameplay fixes, but trolling on the forums like this is not going to get the game fixed. If you have a problem with the game then instead of trolling about it why don't you state your case, put up some suggestions, and then let forums do what they were made for: sharing ideas.

 

[bhavv]

I dont hate Civ V, but to me it is nowhere near as great as Civ II, SMAC, CTP, and Civ IV were.

I got fed up of how it currently is very fast, it reminds me of Morrowind > Oblivion, the sequel was ok, but nowhere near the quality of the previous game.

 

[Stretchy Man]

I've never seen such a badly rated product on Amazon! I would have expected the reviews to be at least mixed.

Some of those guys don't hold back:

"The AI is dumb and unfinished. If my dog had fingers, he could win on prince at least."
"Betrayal of the Civilization Series"
"Utter garbage. Has some shiny and entertaining bits, I suppose, much like a console game. But like a console game, the gameplay itself is bad."
"Just one problem with this game, there is no fun"
"I try to play Civ 5, regardless of setting, and I spend more time waiting on the game then actually playing it. Reeks of programmer garbage and inefficiency."
"Epic... Disappointment"
"Dumbed down to the point of boredom"
"Another great franchise, sacrificed on the altar of the bottom line. "
"Not a sequel...more of a lame spinoff"
"Certianly not what it was represetned to be"

 

[PawelS]

I've never seen such a badly rated product on Amazon! I would have expected the reviews to be at least mixed.

Some of those guys don't hold back:

"The AI is dumb and unfinished. If my dog had fingers, he could win on prince at least."
"Betrayal of the Civilization Series"
"Utter garbage. Has some shiny and entertaining bits, I suppose, much like a console game. But like a console game, the gameplay itself is bad."
"Just one problem with this game, there is no fun"
"I try to play Civ 5, regardless of setting, and I spend more time waiting on the game then actually playing it. Reeks of programmer garbage and inefficiency."
"Epic... Disappointment"
"Dumbed down to the point of boredom"
"Another great franchise, sacrificed on the altar of the bottom line. "
"Not a sequel...more of a lame spinoff"
"Certianly not what it was represetned to be"

Nothing new for me, it's just like reading this forum

 

[PieceOfMind]

To use amazon as a source for reviews, you really need to treat it as a separate system of ratings to what other sites use.

It's quite common for games that are actually very popular to have very low star ratings, especially games from the last couple of years.

Examples:
The Sims 3 has a metacritic rating of 86.
On amazon its mean rating is about 3 stars, with the two highest proportions of ratings being 1 star and 5 stars.

Modern Warfare 2 for PC
Amazon:

5 star: (92)
4 star: (53)
3 star: (46)
2 star: (55)
1 star: (419)

Also has a metacritic rating of 86.
Also, it is still one of the most played games on steam according to http://store.steampowered.com/stats/



In summary, I think the best approach for looking at amazon reviews is to compare against other games of the same genre from around the same time of release. Unfortunately I think amazon is quite sensitive to the sequels-always-dissapoint effect.

 

[ThERat]

"The AI is dumb and unfinished. If my dog had fingers, he could win on prince at least."

had to laugh out loud here