limited guns and ammo

[davidlallen]

Whatever method we use will have some internal flag about whether it is possible to build more units at the moment. I guess we could use adding and removing a resource as an externally visible representation. I think having the "build" button for the unit greyed out with help text about why it is greyed out is also a good representation.

For example, in vanilla, you may have the technology to build a horse archer but no horse resource connected up. In this case your city has a horse archer build button but it's greyed out, and when you hover the mouse you get help text "Requires horse resource". So I'd want the Guardian build button greyed out with help text "Not enough available ammunition".

 

[countjackula]

I'm not sure if limited guns/ammo are worth this amount of discussion or thought . I certainly haven't been concerned with it. When I play I assume that if I can build a unit I have the necessary infrastructure to support that type of unit. Those troop support costs go towards something right? Troop maintenance costs include getting supplies to my troops. I don't have to see food being delivered to my troops to stop me from worrying that they'll die of starvation. Likewise I don't have to see ammo being delivered to my troops to stop me from worrying that they'll run out of bullets. Maybe my outlook on this is too simplistic, but unlimited ammo seems to have worked fine for vanilla Civ and the mod variants I've played so far.

Is having unlimited ammo less realistic? Yes. Does it hamper my game enjoyment? Not at all. I often find myself wishing for more detail in games, but in this aspect of game play I'm quite content with how things currently are. There are other things I'd much rather see added before this level of fine tuning is tackled, things like a beefier tech tree.

Perhaps the gun/ammo aspect could be handled with a broader tech tree, much like bronze, iron, and mithril weapons are handled in FfH. Three resources and three techs are required and allow you to fully upgrade units that can be upgraded. Also, some upgrades can be disallowed to certain unit types if desired.

Tying upgrades to resources and more tech doesn't solve "unlimited ammo" but it does provide an additional level of restriction via resource scarcity and increasing the amount knowledge (infrastructure) required. It also already exists in at least one form code-wise, which should make it easier to tackle if you chose to approach it this way.

Whatever you decide to do, I think the K.I.S.S. rule is a good one to apply here. I don't have to see all of the management acted out in game to believe that it is being done.

 

[jefmart1]

One idea I tried to get to work using events, was limited resources in a city. For example, fuel truck goes to a city; there is a "spell" called fuel dump. Using the spell creates an oil resource in the city for 2 turns, then after 2 turns its removed by another event.

This was awhile ago when I was working on my own post apocalypse mod, so I don't remember what I did per se, but it involves using events to create and remove buildings in a city that provided resources.

The same thing could be used for Spare ammo or its equivalent.

 

[Deamon]

ammo is easy to manufacture, and so is guns..

Would be cool to have artifacts though.. (sniper rifles with increased range, armours that give strength bonuses.. special machineguns and so on.

High precision equipment that only could be aquired as leftovers from before the appocalyps.

Edit: I'm a bit drunk, so please ignore typos.

 

[Vigilance]

However, it's not clear this would be any more "fun". Two different supply streams to manage just makes things painful.

This. I really like needing to find and hoard oil, but needing to follow that same process for ammo too would be too much imo.

 

[Vylinius]

Okay my idea is that you should check out Total Realism it has a thing where you build buildings that supply a finished product from a raw product in this case it could be some type of resource that is made into ammo or the old ammo stores from a tech are then able to have a factory built that produces ammo like you copy the old stuff. THis idea from total realism stops production of units that require this item if the raw material is low which would make it a limited number of units or you lose the raw resource for a few extra units. I have no clue where this all is in the code but it works. So you should try it out. Oh I also love this mod.

 

[Jabie]

This. I really like needing to find and hoard oil, but needing to follow that same process for ammo too would be too much imo.

I agree. Let's keep the micromanagement small. There's also the problem of coding the AI to understand the importance of Munitions if you go down this route.

 

[Vigilance]

One solution would be to have some of the firearms units be produced randomly from ruins like oil, tanks and aircraft.

It would be less micromanagement, but even that I wouldn't be for, since it already seems like weapons production is out of your hands a lot of times. Like when you are getting tanks at a far greater rate than gas trucks, meaning sure, you have all these tanks but you have to keep them parked.

So basically, I like the basic structure of the mod a lot, I just wish there were more technologies.

 

[Randomness]

One posible solution for the changing wepons concept would be to make a circle of free upgadable units. For example, Handgun can upgrade at no cost to Machine Gun, Rifle, and Heavy Weponry(pros and cons would be made for all). At the same time a Rifle would upgrade to a Handgun, Machine Gun, and Heavy Weponry

 

[davidlallen]

I don't agree with *free* upgrades from one type to another. Part of the point is that most weapon types are rare, especially the more powerful ones. Earlier in the thread we discussed a suggestion where weapons are treated as promotions on a generic unit, and can be traded around. That keeps the number of weapons more constant -- new promotions get added as weapons are built/found. But I think the opinion so far is that managing limited fuel is fun, while managing both limited fuel and weapon types would be too much.

 

[Slaughter]

What about limiting good weapons by using the "National Units" limit?

For example: Its early game and my troops and mainly guys with crossbows and survivors. I can build some guardians, but the limit if two o' them until I get (insert tech name here), then it goes up to four, then after I get (insert tech name here), it goes to five, then to ten with (insert tech here) and then its unlimited.