[BTS] livinginaz and Plains-Cow Play 1000AD France

livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
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100
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Land of the Yinzers, PA
Kicking off a fun little experiment, Plains-Cow and I will be playing the BtS Earth 1000AD scenario with identical settings, but completely different matches. This will hopefully provide an interesting look at two differing strategies for this scenario, and our respective playstyles. The games will kick off tomorrow, and updates will be provided every 20 turns. We will play our games at our own leisure, so multiple updates may be provided during the same game session.

The setup is:
1000AD BtS version
Monarch
France
Every 20 turns post screens/action reports.
No mods in use.
This is NOT a PBEM game. Each of our game seeds are completely independent of each other.
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
252
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In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Hello, all!

This is my first time posting reports for a forum game, so I'm hoping that you all enjoy watching/reading the fun. The 1000AD scenario is one of my favorites, but I never play as France, so this seemed like the perfect time to visit that nation. Monarch's not a difficulty that I struggle with, so I planned to play fast-and-loose and let fate carry the story for a bit. Wasn't 100% sure which direction to take, so I played for a short time and felt out how things would go while eventually deciding on going for a domination win. Those are usually the most dramatic, and they make for great stories! My personal limitations are no reloading (unless the unlikely event of a crash) and no using world-builder:

Special thanks to livinginaz for wanting to play and reaching out to hammer out the details. I'm looking forward to seeing how their game goes!

Let's begin!

Spoiler Update #1 pictures and text. :


Here are the settings.

20221109151420_1.jpg


France starts with some surprisingly great units in good numbers; I'm genuinely impressed. Especially since I usually play England! Many knights can be found in the starting cities along with crossbows. There are archers instead of longbows for garrisoning, but they'll be fine. I have just the plan for my medieval marauders: capturing barbarian cities. They swarm east along with my settlers to claim land before Russia can grow. "French Eastern Europe" sounds like a pretty great way to start things off.

20221109153140_1.jpg


There are a few goodie huts still around out east a few turns in. I'm able to claim one, and it gives me... a scout? Oh well, better than nothing and at least allows me to spawn bust barbs.

20221109153551_1.jpg


All of the Christian European powers start out at war with the Vikings and the Muslim Arabs, but in the BtS version, we're at peace with Byzantium rather than conflict. The Spanish divert forces from Africa and decide to make an interesting conquest. I'm sure they'll get lots of use from Syracuse while it's totally surrounded by other cultures.

20221109153751_1.jpg


...speaking of culture, there's a lot early tile flipping happening in Europe as the various cities press against one another with their pre-built cultural buildings. France starts out with stone AND marble, and Louis XIV is industrious, so going for some early wonders feels like a no-brainer. I "gun" for the Oracle and rearrange my citizens to get it done faster, and I'm able to get it right away. I choose Gunpowder because it's the most expensive tech and just so I can use joke quotes in the previous sentence (but not really), and by turn 7 I'm already out of the cool music of the Medieval Era and into the cool music of the Renaissance.

20221109154106_1.jpg


I start settling eastward, but it looks like Russia is already heading in that direction. I settle knowing that my borders will expand thanks to my leader traits, so I can claim the food in the 2nd ring and push Peter away. I use my knights to capture the surrounding barbarian cities to the east and south.

20221109154207_1.jpg


It's food-poor, but I plan to keep it and use it for the production of units later on. I'll farm the grassland tiles. Also, getting offered to give it to Russia when none of Peter's units have probably ever touched the barb city's culture (let alone pressed it with a city of their own) is offensive lol.

20221109154607_1.jpg


Saladin, Saladin, Saladin... we've been at war the whole game, and since I'm starting to colonize the areas east of Russia, looked at what he'd like for peace so the other AIs can worry about him instead. Despite not only never battling me in the field and losing his fish tile improvements to my marauding galleys, he seems to think he's not only winning, but winning well enough to demand one of my CORE CITIES.

Hah, yeah, keep clapping those hands and dreaming.

20221109155227_1.jpg


Hello, barbarian city. Hello, sheep. Hello, culture pressure.

20221109155434_1.jpg


I look to push past the Urals and into Asia. My current plan here is to claim as much land as possible to block off Russia and prevent Mongolia from reaching Europe as well. I am training settlers in my core areas and have moved out workers once all of the tiles and forests have been taken care of back in France. I am going for a few wonders still in the capital and manage to snag them, but I won't be fixated on wonders this game. I want to put as much pressure as possible on the capitals of my European rivals so that Paris stays a powerful city to produce settlers and soldiers as needed.

20221109155525_1.jpg



 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
252
Location
In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Spoiler Update #1 pictures and text continued :


I encounter a Mongolian rider, but no signs of AI settlers or wild barbs. Looks like some good food resources are in Asia.

20221109160359_1.jpg


Shot of my capital city. I just built the Great Library, and I'm thinking about what order I'd like to go with next. I won't be doing all of those buildings, but just showing build times for fun. Mostly going to focus on settlers to send east.

20221109160838_1.jpg


I get a Great Scientist and use them to bulb Philosophy. I am not the first to get there, unfortunately, as apparently the HRE and Justinian already have quite the tech edge.

20221109161320_1.jpg


Uhhhh, that's kinda far away from your core, don't you think so, Isabella?

20221109161949_1.jpg


I went into slavery ASAP at the start of the game knowing that I'll be whipping a lot of buildings for faster growth. That's coming in handy here as I whip granaries and some culture buildings to push Moscow and maintain access to THE BEST TILE AND RESOURCE COMBO IN THE GAME. I go to improve my food tiles and get horses hooked up in Orleans, and then I chop out some early builds and workers. You can see more settlers going east in the pic along with my early farming. I probably didn't NEED to make the roads, but wanted to give my workers something to do while my cities regrew for whipping and to make a faster path for my settlers heading east.

20221109163813_1.jpg


More shots of peaceful expansion a good few turns later. Sometimes peacefully rushing places and cutting off the AI from strategic resources is simply too fun to resist. Still settling, cottaging areas that have a lot of food, and chopping out workers here.

20221109172708_1.jpg


Cutting off Peter to the north and allowing him only junk city possibilities, I spot Justinian getting cheeky with Adrianople. Fair enough, Justinian...for now.

20221109173841_1.jpg


So, I don't remember if I've ever seen this before. I might have, but now it's recorded: I can assign myself the ENGLISH CAPITAL CITY with an AP vote lololol. Of course I go for it, but it tragically fails to pass. Parisian culture is strong!

20221109191730_1.jpg


 

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Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
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Messages
252
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In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Those will be all of my updates for today. Note: I might not post updates from every 20 turns because while I took a lot of screen shots throughout, a lot of next 50 or so turns are basically just expanding via settling and chopping and filling in tiles eastward. I spawn busted to remove barb pressure in Asia and met some more Asian leaders. If there are any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them, and I'm looking forward to how livinginaz's update! I will update the thread either tomorrow or the next day with more shots from my game.
 

livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
100
Location
Land of the Yinzers, PA
Hello everyone, a foreword. This will be my second game of Civ IV in six years. The other I played last month. I was always more of a Civ III player, and when I did play IV I always hovered at Noble/Prince. I accepted this as a challenge knowing that I will be embattled and forcing myself to relearn the ropes and learn some things that I never had. So go easy on my ineptitudes if you will, I am going to suffer especially in micromanaging workers as the equation has much changed from Civ III and also from the vanilla IV that I am more familiar (at least in areas like trade routes). I play Mac BTS 3.19 with no mods. Here goes the carnage, for better or worse.

Spoiler My situation, screenshots :
Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 9.37.41 AM.png

First, here are the settings. I will not reload my game if something goes wrong, which a few things indeed did. Note that this is a windowed mode screenshot, I could not figure out how to do a fullscreen shot on Mac, I usually play at 2560x1440 and man I am grateful now that the city screen in CivIII does not scale to high res, this was a challenge on my neck too...

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 9.36.02 AM.png

Here is the situation in the core of France. I can correct the unhealthy in Paris soon, but the population may outgrow my healthy resources again. I failed to switch to Slavery at the beginning, I had functioned on the idea that if you go into anarchy more than once when not in the lead it will cost you big, and I wanted Representation and possibly Bur. I can probably still switch if I need to in order to get on track. The production in Paris and Bordeaux has been moving along nicely without whip, but in these low pop cities it is not. I do not remember how high my pop should be before I whip at all, because of Marseilles slow growth I am not sure what to think of that. I may have to allocate the pasture below Paris to Marseilles, but it will starve Paris from 11. I may be able to take a specialist off to get more for Paris but it will be slow growth. I built two cottages that are currently not worked, I had forgotten they will outright not grow if they aren't worked.

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 9.36.42 AM.png

Here is Danzig, which I seized very cleanly. It is working all improvements right now while I chop the other forests. Here I am not sure whether it was worth a pasture or not, but I can reallocate it anyway to keep the Horse, at a cost of wasted turns. I am building a few Granaries, but I am not sure if they are helping or harming these low pop cities, I can still abort them. I don't remember how shields progress from one build to the next in this game, it's all a relearning process, and I wanted to show my initial tuition first before gathering any advice.

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 9.38.11 AM.png

This is where it becomes difficult. I had failed to seize Jerusalem, I assumed that it would take more than one turn for the Byzantines to enter the city, and that I could finish off the wounded Arabs inside. That failed, and they also attacked Cairo before I could get there, so I retasked for Syracuse which fell to HRE. I disembarked and seized these two cities, which went well. A Knight was lost because a camel archer tried to retake Tripoli. Now the trouble is I don't know if these cities were worth it. Only recently did I gain the water tiles for Tripoli. Tunis will starve. Cordoba was a very lucky capture, like Jerusalem I tried to go in before Spain. Spain did attack, but not with enough troops to finish off the Archers. I mopped up and took the city. It is growing, and has expanded to use the Town below. I am building a Harbor, which again I am not sure if they are worth in BtS, I think they changed trade routes. All of these cities are costing me 3 or more in maintenance.

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 9.38.46 AM.png

The Byzantines are the leaders. They control Cairo as well as this. They are a few techs ahead of me, but I have Gunpowder on them from the Oracle. I had built cheap wonders in Paris, but I am surprised at English culture encroachment. Otherwise I am holding my own on tech, HRE is about even with me and Saladin has Paper on me with. I am running 100% then 0% to keep the deficit running. I was able to Peace with Saladin for a few GPT but it didn't help. I got a GM which has relieved me a bit. I see Plains-Cow has dropped from 100%, I can get +15 GPT with 80% but I was under the impression that if you aren't running at 100% or 0% you are wasting commerce, but that could be faulty info...

Now I plan what to do next. If I can manage Slavery with a whip I can produce quickly enough to make up for a rut in the last turns. I didn't think at all to go for the Russian expansion and instead kept my settler alone for later, I didn't expect to start with one. My plan is definitely to go for Brazil at some point and chop jungle for rich land. However I fear Justinian will outcompete me still, so I am considering going to war with HRE later. I had thought about waiting for Cannons but it might take too long for an invasion to be viable. It seems like HRE still has a lot of troops and will only build more. I suspect in the long run Justinian, Peter, and Qin will be my rivals. If I take out HRE and maybe Spain I should only have to worry about England getting in the way of my South American expansion, which could also give me an Incan vassal.

I do not know if it's too late to really blow out this game, but I would like to keep going with it. I will likely log a bit more tonight, but this first twenty-one (oops! guess we won't be so hard-and-fast on turn count anyway) took me an hour of deliberation and thinking to pass. I will be interested to see feedback, but please go easy on my deficiencies! This is also my first time sharing a game of Civ since 2005 when I played Civ III conquest scenarios in a newsgroup.
 
Last edited:

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
252
Location
In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Awesome, your first updates! Let's see what each segment's all about.

Here is the situation in the core of France. I can correct the unhealthy in Paris soon, but the population may outgrow my healthy resources again. I failed to switch to Slavery at the beginning, I had functioned on the idea that if you go into anarchy more than once when not in the lead it will cost you big, and I wanted Representation and possibly Bur. I can probably still switch if I need to in order to get on track. The production in Paris and Bordeaux has been moving along nicely without whip, but in these low pop cities it is not. I do not remember how high my pop should be before I whip at all, because of Marseilles slow growth I am not sure what to think of that. I may have to allocate the pasture below Paris to Marseilles, but it will starve Paris from 11. I may be able to take a specialist off to get more for Paris but it will be slow growth. I built two cottages that are currently not worked, I had forgotten they will outright not grow if they aren't worked.

Interesting strat. I postponed Bureaucracy and didn't go Rep. I did switch in to Slavery right away. I could be wrong, but what I try to do is minimize the number of times I switch civics, not when I do it overall (unless I am super close to finishing a critical wonder for my strat, and I'm feeling paranoid lol). I like what you did with the harbor though because France has good overseas trade. I certainly love harbors for cash and health! Also, I try to work all of my tiles that are improved, but I'm always guilty of slapping down cottages when my workers have nothing else to do that don't always end up getting worked lol.

Here is Danzig, which I seized very cleanly. It is working all improvements right now while I chop the other forests. Here I am not sure whether it was worth a pasture or not, but I can reallocate it anyway to keep the Horse, at a cost of wasted turns. I am building a few Granaries, but I am not sure if they are helping or harming these low pop cities, I can still abort them. I don't remember how shields progress from one build to the next in this game, it's all a relearning process, and I wanted to show my initial tuition first before gathering any advice.

You're doing well for having been so long since you've played. Your inherent skill with the game shows. I always do granaries first unless a city is in critical need of culture to prevent a flip or to access a food tile, which a Creative leader doesn't need. Granaries are the most powerful economic building in the game because it builds population fast to whip for slavery. That's why I always pick it up ASAP. That's just my playstyle, though.

This is where it becomes difficult. I had failed to seize Jerusalem, I assumed that it would take more than one turn for the Byzantines to enter the city, and that I could finish off the wounded Arabs inside. That failed, and they also attacked Cairo before I could get there, so I retasked for Syracuse which fell to HRE. I disembarked and seized these two cities, which went well. A Knight was lost because a camel archer tried to retake Tripoli. Now the trouble is I don't know if these cities were worth it. Only recently did I gain the water tiles for Tripoli. Tunis will starve. Cordoba was a very lucky capture, like Jerusalem I tried to go in before Spain. Spain did attack, but not with enough troops to finish off the Archers. I mopped up and took the city. It is growing, and has expanded to use the Town below. I am building a Harbor, which again I am not sure if they are worth in BtS, I think they changed trade routes. All of these cities are costing me 3 or more in maintenance.

Jerusalem is always difficult to hold early game without Byzantine aid because Saladin pounds it pretty hard otherwise. You did a good job taking those other cities, though. I never even considered using my galleys to sail downward and capture them with knights. Maybe Tunis can whip culture buildings to push for the fish? IDK, but another way to get that culture pressure off is to kill the HRE. The options are very open for you right now, so you have a lot of flexibility before the AI settles in. Good shot on Cordoba, too! Gets to work a town and wheat right off the bat. I rely on harbors a lot for income in cities that aren't running a lot of cottages. In a game like this, I focus on trade routes for income unless I have the land space to cottage.

The Byzantines are the leaders. They control Cairo as well as this. They are a few techs ahead of me, but I have Gunpowder on them from the Oracle. I had built cheap wonders in Paris, but I am surprised at English culture encroachment. Otherwise I am holding my own on tech, HRE is about even with me and Saladin has Paper on me with. I am running 100% then 0% to keep the deficit running. I was able to Peace with Saladin for a few GPT but it didn't help. I got a GM which has relieved me a bit. I see Plains-Cow has dropped from 100%, I can get +15 GPT with 80% but I was under the impression that if you aren't running at 100% or 0% you are wasting commerce, but that could be faulty info...

I'll be honest, I don't understand the magic behind the min-max 0%-100% thing, and I play on the higher difficulties. As far as I'm aware, if you barely have green income on a slider at 50%, you'll get the tech at the same speed as if you were going 0% until you saved up enough to get the tech at 100% slider and ran it at that. That's what I usually do: I try to run my slider as high as possible while keeping my income green unless I have plenty of cash to burn from conquests to run a deficit for a few turns. If someone can explain the reasoning or the cost-benefit of doing so, I'm all ears. I also know that's why the BUG mod has a slider adjuster: so people don't need to keep clicking to run the min-max beakers strat.

The turn #s should be the same most of the time, and my logic is that I don't want to get extorted for 500-1000 gold by the AI at risk of getting declared on. Ever have that happen to you? It feels awful lol. I like using Great Merchants to run trade missions at long distances for bulk gold.

I do not know if it's too late to really blow out this game, but I would like to keep going with it. I will likely log a bit more tonight, but this first twenty-one (oops! guess we won't be so hard-and-fast on turn count anyway) took me an hour of deliberation and thinking to pass. I will be interested to see feedback, but please go easy on my deficiencies! This is also my first time sharing a game of Civ since 2005 when I played Civ III conquest scenarios in a newsgroup.

I think you have plenty of moves you can make from here, and I can't wait to see what you do with them!
 

Gumbolt

Phoenix Rising
Joined
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Messages
23,751
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UK
You can reassign capitals to your empire with AP? Wow. Maybe a culture thing?
 

livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
100
Location
Land of the Yinzers, PA
Interesting strat. I postponed Bureaucracy and didn't go Rep. I did switch in to Slavery right away. I could be wrong, but what I try to do is minimize the number of times I switch civics, not when I do it overall
This is something I learned in Civ III, you're not supposed to switch governments more than once a game unless you have a strong reason to. In that game anarchy can eventually grow to many turns in length when you start the revolution unless you're Religious. I think it's maxed at 2 turns in Civ IV though, but I still wanted to hold off if I could help it. I may switch to Slavery on my first turn back though, as it will help me make sure I'm ready for colonization when the techs are available; I want to go immediately.

Maybe Tunis can whip culture buildings to push for the fish? IDK, but another way to get that culture pressure off is to kill the HRE.
That seems to be the best option for them. I had hoped to get Syracuse and eliminate that issue, but I was a turn early. I can tell it's possible to nab the city, but it's hard to take Danzig and Cordoba then. Culture bomb would be nice. As you had said, I usually build Monuments in cities like these or in Danzig, but as France it seemed redundant. Danzig and Cordoba both had nice border pops which gave me the vitals to make them worth it.

I'll be honest, I don't understand the magic behind the min-max 0%-100% thing, and I play on the higher difficulties. As far as I'm aware, if you barely have green income on a slider at 50%, you'll get the tech at the same speed as if you were going 0% until you saved up enough to get the tech at 100% slider and ran it at that. That's what I usually do: I try to run my slider as high as possible while keeping my income green unless I have plenty of cash to burn from conquests to run a deficit for a few turns. If someone can explain the reasoning or the cost-benefit of doing so, I'm all ears. I also know that's why the BUG mod has a slider adjuster: so people don't need to keep clicking to run the min-max beakers strat.
I believe the math of the strat is that since :commerce: is not equal to :gold: and is instead a blank cheque, that running the beaker at 100% only seventy percent of the time, but then at 0% thirty percent of the time, you get more benefit in 10 turns than if you ran the beaker at 70%. I haven't played with it enough to see the effects, but I am on such a lag in techs that I figured I could try it. Usually I have just done what you said, run it at the max I can get gains at. I will say, if I had zero maintenance I would break even at 100% research. I would love to tamp down on my maintenance, especially as I get into America or Africa.
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
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Alright, here are my own updates after giving my thoughts and support for my partner-in-crime livinginaz.

I'm starting to feel culture-pressed on all sides as most of the land's been claimed, so I feel like it's time to beeline rifling and start living out the all-conquering dreams of the historic Louis XIV. I hope you're all ready for some wild events!

Spoiler Update #2 pictures and text :


20221109191833_1.jpg


You can see my culture really pushing my peers around in Western Europe. I get a Great Artist and decide to use him as a bomb for a better one-turn city conquest invasion. I've decided at this point that I'm going for the throat and want to play it a domination game. I plan on drafting rifles in the capital most because it has 3 strong food tiles to work. I assign Paris the best food, and I give Bordeaux the seafood and the farm tile to the north to keep growth up. I move to construct Globe Theater in Paris so that I face zero draft unhappiness and get basically one Rifleman per turn. I plan to draft more in Asia and alternate to let the draft anger cool off. I have a high happiness cap and barracks, so my drafting outside of my Globe Theater capital won't hurt me at all.

20221109192249_1.jpg

I switch to Nationhood and Theocracy with 1 turn for revolution for the upcoming war(s) so that I have as much experience possible to overrun enemies. The AI already has gunpowder here and there, so I move quickly to start drafting ASAP after constructing (whipping) enough theaters in my empire to unlock Globe Theater for the capital. Of course I make use of Organized Religion and the like to build faster before switching out and going war-mode. I've had some Christianity spread automatically to my Asian cities, and I spread it a bit more to get Apostolic Palace-building hammers since Christianity controls the AP from the start of the game.

20221109193429_1.jpg


Mansa Musa (who is a... Buddhist? lol) decides he likes the cut of my jib and peace vassals to me. I'd assume it's because of my tech lead plus our mutual struggle, but I figured that he wouldn't do that because we're different faiths. We've both been at war with Saladin for basically forever, so we're good buddies because of that. I think that's what pushed him over the edge to peace vassal to me. I immediately extort him for African-specific resources via tribute haha. Anyway, it's time for my first conquest, which will be securing my left flank against the Spanish.

20221109200850_1.jpg


I get steel at this time, and bum 10 gold off the Christians who have it to give for a 10-turn peace treaty which SHOULD allow me to run over Spain without their interference. Tragically, Peter has no gold to give, and the AI GETS RIFLING mid-conquest. Peter also decides to declare on me midway through my invasion of Spain, but I don't care because I know I can take him in Europe. I'm no Napoleon, I'm Louis XIV! Louis XIV never lost a war!

20221109200908_1.jpg


All quiet on the western-eastern front (imagine working that one out irl). I'm rallying units to take Smolensk. I'm assuming Peter's stack is marching to Paris because I don't see it anywhere near my Eurasian holdings. It is, and it takes Danzig from me, which I will be sure to reclaim shortly. I swat his stack away (which is half pikemen lolol) without issue with my drafted units, and that's when things get weird...

20221109202137_1.jpg


In an absolutely bizarre series of events, Ragnar declares on me, and IMMEDIATELY VASSALS TO CHINA out of fear. Qin Shi Huang also owns Genghis Khan as a vassal, meaning that we now all share a war border reaching from the Atlantic to the Sea of Japan! Ragnar attacks me with a pathetic stack of outdated units, but the real concern is what China's possibly cooking in the East. I have good culture pressure on Mongolia though, and it looks like they weren't ready at all for this war. No huge stack is in Central Asia, so it looks like I can draft-whip and army as needed to hold my easternmost cities. Mongolia and China do eventually march in a few turns later with small stacks of 10 or so units each, but my valiant Frenchmen are ready for them by then. I crush the invasion forces and rally in my cities in prep for a long, drawn-out defensive war in Asia by making use of my borders. I am convinced that I can hold out long enough with draft rifles and siege until I can handle Peter, then work out something with China to allow me time to consolidate the land I conquer. I assume that Peter bribed someone and set off this chain of wacky shenanigans. It looks like the French recruiters will be busy; better get the bakers to rustle up some extra croissants for morale...

20221109204550_1.jpg


...and then the game's random events give me a break for a change! Super refreshing rather than having improvements destroyed by a natural disaster for the 1000th time. The Chinese, totally not just saying it because they were bribed in and weren't committed to the fight at all, decide to offer me peace in an act of mercy. They climb over the bodies of their dead to return a Frenchman who was captured drunk with a hurt foot back to our lines. Of course I accept this olive branch, and peace is restored. Now my easternmost forces that I've built up to defend my borders are free to slam into Russian cities!

20221109205530_1.jpg


I smash into Peter, take Smolensk, and start to advance on Moscow, but the AP forces a "stop the fighting among brothers of the faith" through, and it causes a cease to hostilities. I don't want to lag behind and have a huge army of drafted rifles and canons ready to go, so I make the best use of my time and prepare for a quick war with the last remaining European who's unaligned: Charlemagne. At the same time, I start to rush for Assembly Line to keep up my tech lead, noticing that Elizabeth is going full science-mode (and she could possibly be trading techs with the score leaders while I could get left behind if I'm not careful). The plan is to attack either Peter next or go for some of Saladin's holdings while the peace treaty is still expiring. He's been shadowboxing me for the last 900 years, so it's about time that we meet on the field of battle properly.

20221109211029_1.jpg


The fine people of London, remembering their Norman "guests" from 1066 with fondness, decide they've had enough of being Anglo-Saxons and opt to go full-baguette. I see it as a consolation prize for not being able to take Moscow and for the blocked AP "assign city" vote from earlier. Paris decides to celebrate the union with fireworks ("We Love the Monarch" Day). I had no idea that this was even possible with capitals, but I'm not going to look a gift London in the mouth. It might make a good staging ground for invading the British Isles should I ever need to take Elizabeth down a few pegs, but she has a lot of American holdings at the moment, and I don't feel like sailing an army to the New World when there's still so much left of the Old to Frenchify. To the colors, men of France!



There you go! Just one update today, but it's packed with action. Hopefully you all found it entertaining. I have more screenshots, and I'll write up tomorrow what happened next.
 

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livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
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Land of the Yinzers, PA
Turn 42, not having Slavery from the start bit me, and the AI ganged up on me and nipped my progress, but I managed to get out of the worst of their attacks. Here it goes. I am on the precipice of my make or break moment.
Spoiler Update 2, defensive war and the cost of not switching to Slavery :

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 7.41.01 PM.png

First thing first, I immediately switch to Slavery. I shouldn't have waited. I immediately started whipping, and what a difference it makes. I could've produced twice as fast. I fared okay for not having it, I suppose... My upkeep is higher which doesn't help, luckily I got a GM that I invested in Byzantines which was a boon for me. Inflation is creeping into place.

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The map of the mainland has not shifted much. I am making cultural gains, but slowly. My planning was decimated by an unfortunate accident, however. Isabella DOWed me unexpectedly, I held onto Cordoba by luck. Spain has way more troops than the HRE, and even with the few losses they suffered, they have a big army. I whipped some units to move in, they did not go for Marseilles. Then Russia DOWed me too. I thought for sure I would lose Danzig as I sent my Knight away on the turn I thought Marseilles would get hit, but didn't. A miracle, the AP put a resolution the turn after Russia DOWed to stop the war against me, and it passed! Even Isabella and Peter voted for it, for some reason... This led me to abandon my planning for the beeline to South America temporarily, which I now am restarting slowly.

You can see that Ribe fell, funnily I got offered a very good deal for Civil Service the turn before it fell to the filthy thief of Byzantine. I saw that the HRE got Baghdad which complicates things further. They are building units and I am not sure how to counter them yet. Might need to wait for steel cannon and rifling. Knight with trebuchet is still a costly fight, and I can't sustain movements into the New World at the same time. Again I am just lagged by no prior whipping.

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I did as Plains-Cow suggested and did some culture in Tunis, it will have a border pop the next turn after this screenshot. Tripoli has a chance to grow soon too. Not quite sure what worker actions to take here though, the terrain isn't great for this era. Soon I will move into the New World, and hopefully squeeze the HRE a bit with culture, if I can nab a city by conversion it could make conquest easier down the road. I am daunted after my war with Isabella, my current force is not enough for a major campaign. Justinian is performing well, but his tech lead has not increased since the last update, not sure how his score ballooned other than seizing Aksum. Mansa seems to be vassal of HRE for some reason. I will possibly get another update tonight.
 

livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
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As things play out, I run into an increasing deficit but continue to luck out with a stream of gold from GMs and trade. I am able to maintain 100% science for longer periods, and am not trailing any more than I ever have.
Spoiler Update 3, culture bomb, Brazil, and Saladin demands maps :

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Major cultural overrun is finally occurring. I got a Great Artist that I used in Danzig to reclaim a lost Village I was working, and to widen that bridge that was being created back to Paris. Soon a road will be built. I've been keeping Paris healthy and happy while whipping, my hammers allow me to produce a lot of things in 1 turn too. Bordeaux and Marseilles are whipped, but do not grow back as fast as Paris. Danzig does grow back very fast and I whipped some nice buildings. I am going for Hermitage to fortify the city as a cultural barriers against the empires around it. I do not quite have the culture to flip any cities yet.

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Evokes memories of CivIII Napoleonic Europe; France takes Ireland. No one had moved into Dublin so I seized it as I moved towards the New World. I couldn't spare any of the workers so I have to build one, I whipped a Granary and this city definitely needs more food. I want to develop its culture to squeeze England, my expected number one rival in colonization.

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The situation in Africa remains fragile. Tripoli is starving, I am providing a farm (even that I recall a farm isn't great there) but Tunis still grows slowly, I have whipped it. Cordoba is a nice city; has been whipped efficiently for my New World efforts. I am moving to build courthouses to bring the maintenance under control, due to the soaring deficit I run when Maxing tech. Luckily I threw a GM into Russia for 900 free gold. I am getting a decent stream of Great People.

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Beginning to establish in Brazil. I hope my city placement isn't awful, I wanted to try and destroy jungles in the placement to reduce worker turns. I need more workers ASAP, one worker per city isn't cutting it with the jungles in the way. Rheims has forest as well as jungle, which is a relief. The theatres may be a waste, but I want to maximize my border area with Incans to hopefully vassalize them (he likes my Civics) and to ensure I take key areas before anyone else arrives. I had thought Granay, but Theatre built appreciably faster. Hopefully the situation in Brazil does not stagger like Africa has.

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Saladin is a Whacko. Here we see a problem; Justinian is a juggernaut. He capitulated both Ragnar and Saladin, as well as picking up Mansa after he broke off from Charlemagne. Byzantines expand deep into Africa south of Egypt. However, Saladin broke off from him and immediately proceeded to demand my world map. Likely due to my American exploration, but amusing nonetheless. Usually Saladin is a player, but he has become frail and cut up by HRE and Byzantine. I still haven't encountered the Asians other than Genghis, I assume Qindi Huang is far in the lead as I know he discovered Liberalism...
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
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Turn 42, not having Slavery from the start bit me, and the AI ganged up on me and nipped my progress, but I managed to get out of the worst of their attacks. Here it goes. I am on the precipice of my make or break moment.

You can do it, livinginaz. I have faith in you.

First thing first, I immediately switch to Slavery. I shouldn't have waited. I immediately started whipping, and what a difference it makes. I could've produced twice as fast. I fared okay for not having it, I suppose... My upkeep is higher which doesn't help, luckily I got a GM that I invested in Byzantines which was a boon for me. Inflation is creeping into place.

Good move switching to slavery. I usually will send my GMs escorted into China (not escorted if no barb risk), but I didn't get any...

The map of the mainland has not shifted much. I am making cultural gains, but slowly. My planning was decimated by an unfortunate accident, however. Isabella DOWed me unexpectedly, I held onto Cordoba by luck. Spain has way more troops than the HRE, and even with the few losses they suffered, they have a big army. I whipped some units to move in, they did not go for Marseilles. Then Russia DOWed me too. I thought for sure I would lose Danzig as I sent my Knight away on the turn I thought Marseilles would get hit, but didn't. A miracle, the AP put a resolution the turn after Russia DOWed to stop the war against me, and it passed! Even Isabella and Peter voted for it, for some reason... This led me to abandon my planning for the beeline to South America temporarily, which I now am restarting slowly.

Looking at your map, I think I know why she warred with you suddenly: borders. She has limited room for expansion, and she'll have a huge army because it's not out fighting Saladin or barbs if there's some blockage. Instead, the culture-pressed borders means that it's a pressure cooker that can explode onto you because you share so much tension with her. I always try to do everything I can to get the AI to waste production by killing itself in pointless wars. Ideally, minimal turf changes hands, or they capture garbage cities like in my posts. I would open borders with her again ASAP to see if she sends her army into other territories. I'm actually surprised she declared on you because you share the same faith. Was she at peace with Saladin? Did she have access to other enemies to attack other than you? I'm glad to hear that the AP went your way! They blocked the hell out of me when I was going for Peter.

You can see that Ribe fell, funnily I got offered a very good deal for Civil Service the turn before it fell to the filthy thief of Byzantine. I saw that the HRE got Baghdad which complicates things further. They are building units and I am not sure how to counter them yet. Might need to wait for steel cannon and rifling. Knight with trebuchet is still a costly fight, and I can't sustain movements into the New World at the same time. Again I am just lagged by no prior whipping.

It's so weird to see Byzantine Ribe lol. I captured Ribe and razed it to the ground in preparation for me taking the HRE capital. I want the pig tile that the city occupies to feed my future city! I think that you held out pretty well so far. Yeah, I went draft rifles and canons and tried to play diplo while setting myself up in Asia to squeeze the Europeans. My thinking is that the Asians are pretty behind in military tech, so my moment of truth will be if I'm able to conquer Europe or not.

I did as Plains-Cow suggested and did some culture in Tunis, it will have a border pop the next turn after this screenshot. Tripoli has a chance to grow soon too. Not quite sure what worker actions to take here though, the terrain isn't great for this era. Soon I will move into the New World, and hopefully squeeze the HRE a bit with culture, if I can nab a city by conversion it could make conquest easier down the road. I am daunted after my war with Isabella, my current force is not enough for a major campaign. Justinian is performing well, but his tech lead has not increased since the last update, not sure how his score ballooned other than seizing Aksum. Mansa seems to be vassal of HRE for some reason. I will possibly get another update tonight.

Yeah, it's the only thing I can think of to try and make Tunis viable since it's starved for food. The only other thing is killing the HRE, but since you already have a war history with Isabella, it might be best to go for her first since she could get easily bribed into war with you. I'm very partial to draft rifles in a pinch, but the stacked anger can get extreme if you try to draft too many times in a row without letting it cool off. If you've never done a draft x Globe Theater city before, it's amazing for the strat. Globe removes ALL anger in a city, and if it has a lot of food tiles, you can draft rifles every turn for 1 population and zero anger while still producing in it. You probably already have the tech needed to unlock it; all it requires is enough theaters built in your empire and room for a national wonder to be built. There is a limit to national wonders that can be built in each city, so keep that in mind if you decide to go Globe Theater. The Americas are certainly an intriguing idea still. I wonder what you'll pick? I'm sure it will be exciting to watch!
 

livinginaz

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Was she at peace with Saladin? Did she have access to other enemies to attack other than you? I'm glad to hear that the AP went your way! They blocked the hell out of me when I was going for Peter.
Yeah, when Saladin collapsed he peaced and the next turn she DOWed me. Vikings were at peace too I think. The AP saved me from losing Danzig, no question. That would've been devastating.

Yeah, it's the only thing I can think of to try and make Tunis viable since it's starved for food. The only other thing is killing the HRE, but since you already have a war history with Isabella, it might be best to go for her first since she could get easily bribed into war with you. I'm very partial to draft rifles in a pinch, but the stacked anger can get extreme if you try to draft too many times in a row without letting it cool off. If you've never done a draft x Globe Theater city before, it's amazing for the strat. Globe removes ALL anger in a city, and if it has a lot of food tiles, you can draft rifles every turn for 1 population and zero anger while still producing in it. You probably already have the tech needed to unlock it; all it requires is enough theaters built in your empire and room for a national wonder to be built. There is a limit to national wonders that can be built in each city, so keep that in mind if you decide to go Globe Theater. The Americas are certainly an intriguing idea still. I wonder what you'll pick? I'm sure it will be exciting to watch!
The Draft is something I've never tried. Globe theatre, yes! I already have Maxed out Paris and Danzig, but I have two good cities to put it in. Cordoba seems a bit vulnerable to place it though, so probably Bordeaux. Drafting may let me crush Isabella with ease, which is essential now. With that base I can suffocate the HRE hopefully and stand up to the Justinian juggernaut.
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
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Hah, I posted at the same moment you did! Nice! I'll comment on this, too.

As things play out, I run into an increasing deficit but continue to luck out with a stream of gold from GMs and trade. I am able to maintain 100% science for longer periods, and am not trailing any more than I ever have.

It looks like you've really managed to stabilize and turn things around well. Your Paris and general culture is far more powerful than mine ever was, but I drafted Paris to hell and back lol. I'm very impressed you pushed your culture borders that far into the HRE to link Danzig!

Major cultural overrun is finally occurring. I got a Great Artist that I used in Danzig to reclaim a lost Village I was working, and to widen that bridge that was being created back to Paris. Soon a road will be built. I've been keeping Paris healthy and happy while whipping, my hammers allow me to produce a lot of things in 1 turn too. Bordeaux and Marseilles are whipped, but do not grow back as fast as Paris. Danzig does grow back very fast and I whipped some nice buildings. I am going for Hermitage to fortify the city as a cultural barriers against the empires around it. I do not quite have the culture to flip any cities yet.

Yeah, I'm surprised I got London to flip to me in the end. I think I just built too many early wonders in Paris and pushed the city too hard. Still, I wasn't expecting it. My Elizabeth's going full-tech at this point. I'm thinking it's a space game for England.

Evokes memories of CivIII Napoleonic Europe; France takes Ireland. No one had moved into Dublin so I seized it as I moved towards the New World. I couldn't spare any of the workers so I have to build one, I whipped a Granary and this city definitely needs more food. I want to develop its culture to squeeze England, my expected number one rival in colonization.

That's a good move. I waited awhile before even thinking about Ireland. It's such a safe haven for building up wealth and the like.

The situation in Africa remains fragile. Tripoli is starving, I am providing a farm (even that I recall a farm isn't great there) but Tunis still grows slowly, I have whipped it. Cordoba is a nice city; has been whipped efficiently for my New World efforts. I am moving to build courthouses to bring the maintenance under control, due to the soaring deficit I run when Maxing tech. Luckily I threw a GM into Russia for 900 free gold. I am getting a decent stream of Great People.

Hey, it looks like Tunis is getting culture enough to claim the fish! Frankly, that's all you need for it to be a viable city with whips. I feel like North Africa is always pretty precarious, but it's because of the lack of any good land tiles outside of the very edge near Spain (which you already have). I didn't get any merchants, just scientists and artists in Paris. I'm glad you're getting such good use out of them!

Beginning to establish in Brazil. I hope my city placement isn't awful, I wanted to try and destroy jungles in the placement to reduce worker turns. I need more workers ASAP, one worker per city isn't cutting it with the jungles in the way. Rheims has forest as well as jungle, which is a relief. The theatres may be a waste, but I want to maximize my border area with Incans to hopefully vassalize them (he likes my Civics) and to ensure I take key areas before anyone else arrives. I had thought Granay, but Theatre built appreciably faster. Hopefully the situation in Brazil does not stagger like Africa has.

Looking like you're first in South America. If you manage to block the AI off along the entire coast, all of the inland will be yours as well, but that's only if it fits your strategy. It could be tempting to try serfdom if there's ever a time when you don't need whipping to get all that jungle out of the way, but I think that getting workers over there or whipping them in the New World is equally viable. Plus, the whipping can come in handy if there's a crazy DOW...

Saladin is a Whacko. Here we see a problem; Justinian is a juggernaut. He capitulated both Ragnar and Saladin, as well as picking up Mansa after he broke off from Charlemagne. Byzantines expand deep into Africa south of Egypt. However, Saladin broke off from him and immediately proceeded to demand my world map. Likely due to my American exploration, but amusing nonetheless. Usually Saladin is a player, but he has become frail and cut up by HRE and Byzantine. I still haven't encountered the Asians other than Genghis, I assume Qindi Huang is far in the lead as I know he discovered Liberalism...

...like Saladin. He's a nutjob for sure lol. If Justinian takes all of Arabia, it looks like it could be a game between you, him, and perhaps China. I lost the race to lib by like 3 turns! I find that Saladin is a wildcard because he doesn't upgrade his units soon enough to be dangerous until the late game or if he manages to steamroll into Central Asia and India somehow.

Yeah, when Saladin collapsed he peaced and the next turn she DOWed me. Vikings were at peace too I think. The AP saved me from losing Danzig, no question. That would've been devastating.

Crazy how these events can change the dynamics of the game so much, huh? I still can't believe that I got an event that got me out of that war with China. I was really digging in for it. That's just the benefit of being such a versatile CIV edition: there are many ways to win. Looks like your Danzig is much more integral (and useful in the midgame) than mine lol.

The Draft is something I've never tried. Globe theatre, yes! I already have Maxed out Paris and Danzig, but I have two good cities to put it in. Cordoba seems a bit vulnerable to place it though, so probably Bordeaux. Drafting may let me crush Isabella with ease, which is essential now. With that base I can suffocate the HRE hopefully and stand up to the Justinian juggernaut.

Those theaters in South America will go towards the count for however many are needed for you to build Globe Theater, so there's that benefit to them as well. Drafting allows you to get a unit and move it same-turn but causes stacked anger just like whipping. It's 3 anger, so it's expensive, and has a cooldown just like slavery whipping. You also need to be in Nationhood civic to use the button. Rifles cost 1 pop and Infantry cost 3, so you will always be able to whip Rifles way faster than Infantry. I'm looking forward to seeing what your decide to do!
 
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livinginaz

Seven Ages of Man
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Land of the Yinzers, PA
I am very lucky or better at the game than I assumed, maybe a bit of both. I keep getting Great People that are a boon. No one has attacked me, and I even swung a Defensive Pact with Justinian.
Spoiler Update 4, the French Empire takes the lead for one turn :

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The culture bomb is working! I got another Great Artist in Paris, and did a Greatwork. I also have worked a few turns of culture because there was nothing worth producing with the techs I had. I am hoping I flip Bremen. London is probably stunted due to my seizure of its water tiles. However, Elizabeth has become a friend, so I am not worried about that competition as much. Note how close I am to Justinian, it's a bit further because Mansa keeps going free then re-vassalizing. I was in the lead for one turn. Also, Qin SHi Huang is not doing well, a great relief. I need to meet the Asians, I think an Explorer will be built just to confirm where things are.

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This one is a bit tricky. Tunis is a very good city now for its surroundings, I have it up to 9 or 10 but I keep whipping. Tripoli finally has a chance to grow. The issue is, I can't work any more tiles and I'm not sure whether to replace any existing ones. Also, you can see Cordoba is suffering from Spanish cultural pressure. I am close to warring with them as I have Rifling and can go for the Draft, I build the Globe theater in Bordeaux. However, I have very good relations with Europe, as well as a defensive Pact with Justinian, and I am afraid to tick off everyone. Elizabeth will also do a defensive pact with me, she is friendly. Capac too, which is weird because he won't go vassal yet. Charlemagne has Rifling too, and I am afraid that i have to go now if I want to win these wars.

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Dublin is shaping up to be a good city. You may see that I have pulled back on a tech a bit, I am sustaining at 70% for a while since the GM luck has run out. Need to solve the unhappiness.

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This is really a great city. Many tiles that allow a great farm, and some nice cottages along with a camp. Very pleased with this one.

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Up north, not too bad but the jungles need cleared. I can move inland once I secure the coast, but I'm not even sure how necessary it will be if I smoke Spain and the HRE. These should shape up nicely. I got gold from both goody huts which was a nice bonus. Barbarians are an issue, but they seem to have stopped. This is likely my last update for the night, as I deliberate going on the offensive with a draft. The AI is still keeping a lot of techs from me, I beelined for Rifling.
 

livinginaz

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Land of the Yinzers, PA
It looks like you've really managed to stabilize and turn things around well. Your Paris and general culture is far more powerful than mine ever was, but I drafted Paris to hell and back lol. I'm very impressed you pushed your culture borders that far into the HRE to link Danzig!
This is the strength of France with culture, I have invested in it because I hoped to crumble HRE a bit before a war, and more quickly integrate them. It's not going as well with Cordoba or Marseilles, but I'm pleased with my cultural power on the continent.

Looking like you're first in South America. If you manage to block the AI off along the entire coast, all of the inland will be yours as well, but that's only if it fits your strategy. It could be tempting to try serfdom if there's ever a time when you don't need whipping to get all that jungle out of the way, but I think that getting workers over there or whipping them in the New World is equally viable. Plus, the whipping can come in handy if there's a crazy DOW...
The lull in buildings and Paris' massive food source let me get extra workers into South America. I was able to keep Astronomy from the AI, but it seems like they finally have it.

Crazy how these events can change the dynamics of the game so much, huh? I still can't believe that I got an event that got me out of that war with China. I was really digging in for it. That's just the benefit of being such a versatile CIV edition: there are many ways to win. Looks like your Danzig is much more integral (and useful in the midgame) than mine lol.
I was lucky to get a very positive event with Peter as well, he is close to Friendly, though we will see what the wars do to that. Danzig must be held, it is a major city to me now, possibly more so than any besides Paris and Bordeaux. I can't believe China is so weak in my game, unless it's just not showing up on the trade table they weren't the ones to get Liberalism.
 

livinginaz

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Now I think I owe my friend some opinions as well for his help:
I move to construct Globe Theater in Paris so that I face zero draft unhappiness and get basically one Rifleman per turn. I plan to draft more in Asia and alternate to let the draft anger cool off. I have a high happiness cap and barracks, so my drafting outside of my Globe Theater capital won't hurt me at all.
The Globe Theater in Paris is killer, I wish I had known a bit earlier about it and could've built it there instead. I really like your strategy of developing in Asia, I remember seeing AI France and Spain going for it before, but failing to make a major setup. If I do France again or even Spain I will have to give this a try.

I'm assuming Peter's stack is marching to Paris because I don't see it anywhere near my Eurasian holdings. It is, and it takes Danzig from me, which I will be sure to reclaim shortly.
Danzig seems to be a common target for him. Even in Earth 18 Civs I remember any cities in that region were getting conquered over and over until I accidentally razed them :lol:

Mansa Musa (who is a... Buddhist? lol) decides he likes the cut of my jib and peace vassals to me. I'd assume it's because of my tech lead plus our mutual struggle, but I figured that he wouldn't do that because we're different faiths. We've both been at war with Saladin for basically forever, so we're good buddies because of that. I think that's what pushed him over the edge to peace vassal to me.
Good job getting him away from the AI. I peaced with Saladin and Ragnar early (Ragnar had a chance to threaten my Workers so I just gave up the war for 10 gold) and that did worsen my situation with the rest of the world. I remember in the vanilla version, if no one conquered the Vikings it was really a good thing for your relations because it was a guaranteed boost.

In an absolutely bizarre series of events, Ragnar declares on me, and IMMEDIATELY VASSALS TO CHINA out of fear
Things like this are what make this scenario great. It's completely crazy some of the things that happen. I hate it when you get cornered by the sudden vassal or capitulation.

...and then the game's random events give me a break for a change! Super refreshing rather than having improvements destroyed by a natural disaster for the 1000th time. The Chinese, totally not just saying it because they were bribed in and weren't committed to the fight at all, decide to offer me peace in an act of mercy. They climb over the bodies of their dead to return a Frenchman who was captured drunk with a hurt foot back to our lines. Of course I accept this olive branch, and peace is restored. Now my easternmost forces that I've built up to defend my borders are free to slam into Russian cities!
This is the positives and negatives of random events and the AP. They get annoying with things like natural disaster, negative relation hits, etc. But sometimes it works out and gives you that great assistance you needed. The AP nicking the war from you was a bummer. I sometimes raze the AP if they fuss me with it and I can get to it, harder on higher difficulties I assume. At least with the UN you can prepare for it a bit more than the AP, and even then you just hoard nukes then ban them. Nothing really like that with AP.
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
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I am very lucky or better at the game than I assumed, maybe a bit of both. I keep getting Great People that are a boon. No one has attacked me, and I even swung a Defensive Pact with Justinian.

Nice Defensive Pact with Justinian if someone declares on you, but make sure you check to see if any of the other Christians have pacts before going to war in Europe. I wanted to move fast enough to take out the AI before they could sign pacts with one another, but my game's tech for everyone was pretty slow because everyone kept getting into grindy wars with one another at random (except Elizabeth). I also didn't trade techs around that were monopolies for military purposes.

The culture bomb is working! I got another Great Artist in Paris, and did a Greatwork. I also have worked a few turns of culture because there was nothing worth producing with the techs I had. I am hoping I flip Bremen. London is probably stunted due to my seizure of its water tiles. However, Elizabeth has become a friend, so I am not worried about that competition as much. Note how close I am to Justinian, it's a bit further because Mansa keeps going free then re-vassalizing. I was in the lead for one turn. Also, Qin SHi Huang is not doing well, a great relief. I need to meet the Asians, I think an Explorer will be built just to confirm where things are.

Maybe you can flip Salzburg, too. At least you have a good place to invade from if you declare on the HRE with all that border pressure you create. Mansa is so weird in 1000AD; he always vassals and breaks only to re-vassal. My Ragnar's doing the same thing. He unvassaled and re-vassaled same turn to the same AI after we were at peace post-event. My China was already score leader by mid game and kept vassaling AIs. I think they snowballed into Lib, which I expected to go to me (or maybe Justinian), but Justinian was stuck in a forever war with Saladin and kept losing and retaking his cities east of Constantinople. I'm surprised his Cats couldn't get the job done.

This one is a bit tricky. Tunis is a very good city now for its surroundings, I have it up to 9 or 10 but I keep whipping. Tripoli finally has a chance to grow. The issue is, I can't work any more tiles and I'm not sure whether to replace any existing ones. Also, you can see Cordoba is suffering from Spanish cultural pressure. I am close to warring with them as I have Rifling and can go for the Draft, I build the Globe theater in Bordeaux. However, I have very good relations with Europe, as well as a defensive Pact with Justinian, and I am afraid to tick off everyone. Elizabeth will also do a defensive pact with me, she is friendly. Capac too, which is weird because he won't go vassal yet. Charlemagne has Rifling too, and I am afraid that i have to go now if I want to win these wars.

It looks like your North African holdings are good for what they are. At least it provides you a springboard into Africa if you plan on colonizing that. Or you could go for Mansa after taking care of Europe (or before, but I'd probably be nervous about him running to an AI and vassaling himself). Maybe you can bribe others into war with non-Christians? You can also do the gold diplo trick of asking politely for 10 gold if they're your friend (Pleased or higher) for nothing in return. That DOES work to enforce a mandatory peace without risking a "you made an arrogant demand" negative diplomacy hit.

Dublin is shaping up to be a good city. You may see that I have pulled back on a tech a bit, I am sustaining at 70% for a while since the GM luck has run out. Need to solve the unhappiness.

What are your plans with Dublin? Customs House/income hub or will you whip military out of it?

This is really a great city. Many tiles that allow a great farm, and some nice cottages along with a camp. Very pleased with this one.

Yeah, all that corn and deer is amazing. It looks like you're really locking down South America, which will be a great boon for your economy. Consider Communism and State Property for when your empire starts getting too expansive and courthouses aren't cutting it. Reduces maintenance an absurd amount.

Up north, not too bad but the jungles need cleared. I can move inland once I secure the coast, but I'm not even sure how necessary it will be if I smoke Spain and the HRE. These should shape up nicely. I got gold from both goody huts which was a nice bonus. Barbarians are an issue, but they seem to have stopped. This is likely my last update for the night, as I deliberate going on the offensive with a draft. The AI is still keeping a lot of techs from me, I beelined for Rifling.

Nice! Looking forward to what you'll pick to do.

This is the strength of France with culture, I have invested in it because I hoped to crumble HRE a bit before a war, and more quickly integrate them. It's not going as well with Cordoba or Marseilles, but I'm pleased with my cultural power on the continent.

Yeah, I can see Spain pressuring Cordoba with culture a lot. Have you had any Spanish revolts there?

The lull in buildings and Paris' massive food source let me get extra workers into South America. I was able to keep Astronomy from the AI, but it seems like they finally have it.

Sounds like your first-mover advantage was maintained well. Any thoughts about going to North America? The eastern half below Canada is all forests to chop to expand.

The Globe Theater in Paris is killer, I wish I had known a bit earlier about it and could've built it there instead. I really like your strategy of developing in Asia, I remember seeing AI France and Spain going for it before, but failing to make a major setup. If I do France again or even Spain I will have to give this a try.

I picked Paris because it has access to the seafood tile and the pigs and wheat, but I think you picked a good city where you built your GT. You can always move around some of the tiles to feed your GT city for faster growth, but it might starve Paris. I'm glad you like my Asia strat! It's a bit of a risk due to barbs and needing to invest in building settlers and workers early for fast expansion, but it stops Peter or China from becoming too strong. My goal was to colonize all the way to Mongolia proper, not just their cultural borders.

Danzig seems to be a common target for him. Even in Earth 18 Civs I remember any cities in that region were getting conquered over and over until I accidentally razed them :lol:

Lolol, I didn't know he had such a fixation for establishing Kaliningrad in all these scenarios.

Good job getting him away from the AI. I peaced with Saladin and Ragnar early (Ragnar had a chance to threaten my Workers so I just gave up the war for 10 gold) and that did worsen my situation with the rest of the world. I remember in the vanilla version, if no one conquered the Vikings it was really a good thing for your relations because it was a guaranteed boost.

I think that I managed to get him away from the AI because of our eternal war with Saladin and my tech lead on him, so he felt like I could defend him. I don't know why Saladin is so reluctant to attack across the desert, but he never seems to take any of Mansa's cities. Surely he knows he's there since Saladin starts with knowledge of Africa and scouts quickly. My goal was to remain at war with Saladin to keep "good feelings" high among the Christian leaders until I was ready for war.

Things like this are what make this scenario great. It's completely crazy some of the things that happen. I hate it when you get cornered by the sudden vassal or capitulation.

For sure! It's a super fun one that has a lot of replay value as different civilizations are experimented with. I'd like to do a non-European 1000AD run sometime.

This is the positives and negatives of random events and the AP. They get annoying with things like natural disaster, negative relation hits, etc. But sometimes it works out and gives you that great assistance you needed. The AP nicking the war from you was a bummer. I sometimes raze the AP if they fuss me with it and I can get to it, harder on higher difficulties I assume. At least with the UN you can prepare for it a bit more than the AP, and even then you just hoard nukes then ban them. Nothing really like that with AP.

The problem with this AP is it's in Rome, and Rome is a gem of a city with some nice wonders in it. Controlling the AP is possible via population size and conquest, and usually I don't worry too much about it since I always try to be in the AP religion. I also always look to spread the AP's religion buildings for the hammer bonus they offer.
 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
252
Location
In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Early-morning weekend update for those looking for something to read for brunch!


Spoiler Update #3 pictures and text :


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Isabella capitulates to me, leaving her with holdings in South America only. She also gives me one of her cities in the Caribbean, which will be useless. I probably could have looked at where it was before I accepted it in the peace deal, but oh well lol. I turn off the slider during the final stages of conquest after getting Assembly Line so that I can upgrade to infantry units quickly. I have a substantial army of drafted rifles, some with good experience, so I make them my first infantrymen. I blitz through the HRE in about 7 turns and take Charlemagne as my next vassal.

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A scene of Old Guard French riflemen entering Sicily.

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Looks like I get extra spices from Cuba while Isabella's cavalry units sit in a jungle forever. Very nice of her to loan me a Spanish ship to transport the goods back to France.

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The new English capital's in North America. I never attacked Elizabeth, so she still has all of her GB cities sans-London, but it looks like she's given up on the Old World altogether lol.

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A shot of my Asian holdings. I'm waypointing units in preparation for my next war. During our forced peace, Peter declared on Saladin and we reopened borders. I figure it's finally time to dance with Arabia and claim Jerusalem, so I waypoint through to Anatolia. I also don't want to lose any Arabian cities that would have been easy conquests to Peter, and decide to follow his invasion into the Middle East.

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Elizabeth's been trading techs with the AI like crazy, and somehow Peter has artillery units. Nobody else that I can see does besides England and Russia. Justinian is barely into Gunpowder. It's a wacky sight. Let's take a peek at the Arabian garrison and see how he's going to perform against Saladin's stack:

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...poorly.

 

Plains-Cow

Best Resource; Always Wins
Joined
Oct 25, 2022
Messages
252
Location
In Your Capital's Starting Ring
Updates continue:

Spoiler Update #3 pictures and text continued :


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I get some bonus production from a forge event. A French blacksmith discovers that bigger forge=more gun, so he gets a medal and a parade.

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Everyone in the AP decides to troll Monty, so I roll with it for the laughs. I play around a bit with min-maxing gold and decide I'm not in the mood to fiddle with the tech slider that much and just go with trying to keep it high and in the green at the same time.

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Ah, the famous French general Erwin Rommel makes an appearance in Paris. I decide that my military is getting pretty big, and I'm already running civics that give enough experience, so I decide to make a super-medic with him for that amazing Medic III healing bonus. I got him the turn I attacked the Arabian garrison in Anatolia. I didn't have enough units to kill off all of them, but I won every battle but one and will take the city next turn. I decide to march a few units past the city to go for Jerusalem to prevent a Russian or Byzantine snipe (some of them are marching deeper into Arabia) and leave my newly-arrived stack from Europe clean up the rest of the units in the city and capture it.

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Rommel, the Breton Fox, links up with the invading forces to complete the 1000-year crusade we just remembered we're still apparently doing. His famous talent for medicine will be most useful.

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Hah, yeah, so I'll be taking care of that culture pressure soon. Don't you worry, Syracuse...

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The French cannons roar, and the infantry charge!

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Jerusalem falls, and I get to enjoy the sweet, sweet shrine income bonuses that come with it.

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So...Saladin has 13 catapults running around guarded by a longbow. That's, uh, something.

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I've been trading around with my vassals for technologies. I tell them what to research and trade with them all for the ones that I need until it becomes impractical to ask them to research high-beaker techs. Feeling a little miffed after seeing Peter with artillery, I decide it's time to up my cannon game.

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I split my armies into three parts: one to attack west, one to attack into Africa, and one to attack the Arabian capital. Saladin starts to wilt like lettuce left in the sun for a day. Baghdad is a particularly well-developed city that I look forward to owning, though something will need to be done about that workshop sitting on the unimproved wheat tile lol.

 
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