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Ljolsafar, Fyrdwell and deer

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by [to_xp]Gekko, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    first of all, let me say that I LOVE the idea of giving the good elves this UU that requires deer: really flavourful and cool :goodjob:

    it made me think about deer a little though, and it comes to mind that having deer only spawn in tundra/ice doesn't make much sense: deer are a pretty common animal kind that thrives, in different forms of course, all over the world: just think of the many kind of deers that live in Africa for example. the elven love for deep forests means that they usually don't have many chances to get deer ( especially if you play with flavourmod enabled as I do ) except by trading, which makes this UU a little too difficult to get, and doesn't feel quite "right" imho.

    so, I think it would be nice to have deer resource spawn into forested tiles ( where you normally expect to find them, after all ).

    this would mean that the ljolsafar have a way bigger chance to get the resource for this UU, and they don't HAVE TO settle in crappy cold spots ( or trading with foreign civs ) in order to get the resource they need for one of their UUs. this would even make the hunting tech a little bit more powerful ( it's kinda expensive considering how soon in the game it comes available : exploration is usually a vital tech ) without making it unbalanced : currently it's a no-brainer if you start in tundra/snow. same for the hunting lodge: would be a little bit more powerful, but nothing gamebreaking, and that health bonus for deer would be more useful.

    then to mantain 2 resources unique to tundra/snow ( so that there still is at least a small incentive to settle in that unfavorable terrain ) you could add a "moose" resource that only spawns where deer are spawning now ( basically they'd replace the current implementation of deer ) , but make moose more clumpy in its distribution compared to current deer ( i.e. similar to fur ) . which would make cold terrains more useful and give them some much-needed food. especially if you considerate how much it sucks to have the misfortune to start a game in snowy terrain right now: it's basically a death sentence. so that if you happen to start there, you're still going to try and expand into better terrain ASAP, but not be screwed up so badly as now by tundra/snow crappy terrain, and actually have a fighting chance against your luckier neighbours.

    ok, this post is over. I do realize that it's poorly worded, so if anyone wants some clarification on this, just ask. and sorry for opening yet another new thread, if that angers somebody - please let me know :D
     
  2. arcticnightwolf

    arcticnightwolf Chieftain

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    Gekko, next thread? omg!

    now is it 5:5 ( 5 threads on first page started by Kael : 5 threads on first page started by Gekko)
     
  3. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    it's not a challenge, I'm just trying to share my ideas with this awesome community ;)

    and I actually have a couple more threads in mind, but I'm not posting them yet to avoid spamming the forums. you should thank me for that :p
     
  4. cephalo

    cephalo Chieftain

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    I agree that it would be good to increase the deer. The tundra/ice thing was ok in Civ, but in FhF it's a strategic resource. If you want to test it, it's a super easy change in the CvBonusInfos.xml file.
     
  5. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    thanx for the reply cephalo :) I'll try messing around with the bonusinfos file and see how it goes. hope to have some more people drop their opinions about this one btw :D
     
  6. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    ok, I've tried messing around with the bonusfile but the result was definitely not what I wanted, deer where way too common all over the globe. unfortunately there are A LOT of variables in there that I have no idea what they do :( if anyone that knows about XML more than I do can help, I'd be most grateful. basically what I'm trying to do is to have deer be very common in snow+tundra, and be rare in forested grass/plains. thanx in advance for your help guys :)
     
  7. fuzzy_bunnies

    fuzzy_bunnies Chieftain

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    Just as an aside, I like the deer thing too... its very flavorful but it sucks if you're nowhere NEAR the poles. Maybe make it deer and elk? With deer being a plains resource.

    PS I'd like to submit my write in vote for the addition of Doviello Penguin riders ;) Weee!
     
  8. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I'd like to see Deer spawn in grassland forests.
    No need to worry about needing the tile surrounded by other forest tiles or anything; just give it a small chance of spawning in forest, it will naturally be more likely to occur in large connected forests tiles than a single lone forest tile.
     
  9. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    well said. problem is, there's no way of setting a different chance for each terrain with XML alone ( which is all I know unfortunately :blush: ) . I could just reduce the likeliness of deer spawning overall, but this would make them too rare in tundra/snow, and I don't want that as those 2 terrain are already bad enough imho. if someone with python/SDK skills likes the idea and wants to try it, that would be awesome :D
     
  10. Blackmantle

    Blackmantle Chieftain

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    Change to include a different resource offering the same bonus and graphics (elk / stag) and let the elves ride both whould sound somewhat the easier / better way if you modify it yourselves.
    Should be as easy as coppy&paste the deer line and just change the terrain and frequency for the pasted one as well as the entry for fyrdwell and hunting lodge accordingly... ;) (May seem a bit lame but the result is just the same if im not mistaken.)
    No need to rip yourself appart codewise just to avoid some minor neglectable cosmetic issue.

    Overall i like the idea as well. Same for beavers/furs btw. because of the lodges (since hunting lodge could use a few more resources it improves in my tastes.).
    If to a way lesser degree because they are not a strategic resource. Even if the name / graphics change of that resources is much easier to put together for deer than for furs.
     
  11. arcticnightwolf

    arcticnightwolf Chieftain

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    There is also possibility to add to Ljolsafar's palace deer (like Hippus)...
    fuzzy_bunnies: I like idea Doviello Penguin riders, but penguin aren't common in FfH.
     
  12. cephalo

    cephalo Chieftain

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    If you just add plains to the FeatureTerrain tag so that it can appear in plains forest, it should be alot more common but still appear often in tundra.
     
  13. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    thanks blackmantle and cephalo for the support, much appreciated :)

    what I'm thinking right now is to add a new "deer" resource in bonusinfos.xml , only visible by ljolsafar ( how is that done btw? do I need to add a new tech the ljolsafar start with that does nothing but let them see deer? or is there an easier way? ) , that does nothing but grant access to fyrdwell. current deer will be renamed to "moose" . that's cuz I want to change as little as possible in the game. suggestions? :D I'll try to get this working as soon as I get back home later today :goodjob:

    btw: is there a way to make the new "deer" resource disappear if the forest feature on the tile is chopped down? ( to simulate destruction of habitat ) with xml alone cuz that's all I know :D thanx in advance for the help ;)
     
  14. Jean Elcard

    Jean Elcard The Flavournator

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    I don't think that's possible with XML alone, but it should be fairly easy doable within the Python function "onPlotFeatureRemoved" in "CvEventManager.py" I suppose.

    EDIT: Here is the necessary code you would have to add (blue). Should save you some time:

    Code:
    	def [COLOR="Magenta"]onPlotFeatureRemoved[/COLOR](self, argsList):
    		'Plot Revealed'
    		pPlot = argsList[0]
    		iFeatureType = argsList[1]
    		pCity = argsList[2] # This can be null
    		[COLOR="SeaGreen"]# remove deer if habitat vanishes: [/COLOR]
    		[COLOR="Blue"]if pPlot.getBonusType(TeamTypes.NO_TEAM) == gc.getInfoTypeForString('BONUS_DEER'):
    			pPlot.setBonusType(BonusTypes.NO_BONUS)
    			pPlot.setImprovementType(ImprovementTypes.NO_IMPROVEMENT)
    [/COLOR]
     
  15. Willgar

    Willgar Chieftain

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    not meaning to hijack but on small maps (which i play but with 5 rival civs) Deer and Fur seem very rare even in Tundra areas. Was wondering if resource availability properly scales with map sizes?
     
  16. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    thanx man, you rock! :goodjob: I would have never be able to do this myself :D still not sure if I'm going to add that effect though, it might make those deer too hard to come by. it would work very well with flavourmod though, I guess I will upload 2 different files for ffh and ffh+flavourmod.

    had no time to work on this today unfortunately, I was out till dawn to dusk due to holidays being over. I'll probably do this tomorrow though.
     
  17. El_Duderino

    El_Duderino Chieftain

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    i think that the deer should only spawn on ancient forests, this way people dont get too much deer, it makes sense lorewise, and the elves are going to adopt it anyway
     
  18. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    ok I've started work on this - although it is slightly harder than I thought, it shouldn't be much of a problem. besides, I'm thinking of adding a distinction between pigs ( domesticable walking meat :lol: ) and boars ( wild furry tusked pigs, used by the dwarfs to build them boar-riders ) as well. how does that sound?
     
  19. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    umh, work on this is frozen for now - I'm a perfectionist and having to do things the crappy way due to my ignorance in programming ( yes, that does include XML, most of the variables I have no idea what they do :D ) freaks me out. while I try to learn more about how to edit stuff, anyone that likes this concept is more than welcome to use it :)
     
  20. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    If you want to know what EVERYTHING in the XML does, learn the C++, at least how to read it :) Each item in the XML is loaded into there to do what it does. Many names are not too helpful for understanding precisely what the function is, so it is quite worth a gander.
     

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