LK150 - WM, Indonesia again

[Northern Pike]

 

[Northern Pike]

Why do we have Bangka of America so far out in the Atlantic that it'll probably sink? I hope that wasn't suicide reconnaissance, when the option of triggering our GA with a harmless war against Brazil could be so useful.

Later: Realizing how many risks Greebley seems to have taken with various Bangkas, without losing any of them, I made some experiments with an early save from this game, and it turns out that Bangkas can't sink, even in ocean. Were we supposed to know this? Was it intentional, LK?

 

[LKendter]

I made some experiments with an early save from this game, and it turns out that Bangkas can't sink, even in ocean. Were we supposed to know this? Was it intentional, LK?

Nope, that was a mistake.


With how small India has gotten, I agree they need to be hit so that we can grab our piece of the pie. Hopefully they can't buy a meaningful ally.

ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Northern Pike
Greebley (just played)
Commando Bob (swapped)
Elephantium (up)

 

[Greebley]

I was wondering if it was due to the Polynesians early explorations of the oceans - crossing all the way to Hawaii and what not. Game-wise we don't need the ability so no real reason to include it. Since you can get to almost everywhere early without crossing the ocean, I don't think it's overpowered either - at least for this map. It would mean meeting America a bit earlier.

I think allowing coast and sea but not ocean might be the best. That gives it some of the abilities to cross early.

Edit: If you are curious how I knew they wouldn't sink, they had the movement numbers on ocean squares rather than "I can't go here" indications.

 

[Northern Pike]

they had the movement numbers on ocean squares rather than "I can't go here" indications.

Yes, that was how the penny dropped for me too. Thanks for the clarification.

Looking ahead to Tusker's round:

Sidarta should begin to function as a worker pump after it completes its temple, or its granary will be wasted. Making the invisible-shields-on-growth mechanic work can be tricky with a town that isn't on fresh water, and Sidarta may have to produce its workers on a two-turn cycle at sizes 5 --> 6 rather than 6 --> 7, gaining two shields (after corruption) from a mined hill on growth. Don't sweat the details if you don't feel like it, but definitely workers and nothing else after the temple, please.

We don't need to build military everywhere, and OTOH we've done nothing to build up our commerce position. So I'd suggest that Semarang should switch from its barracks to a marketplace, and once that's done we can merge it up to size twelve, or close, with the workers Sidarta will then be producing. This will give us a powerhouse commerce city quite quickly.

After the five native workers outside Samarinda finish developing the jungle tile they're working on, three of them can build a one-tile road to the city with which we replace Hyderabad, but with that exception the whole force should move down the peninsula to develop Mokoaguow. If we're going to do long jungle burns at all they should be for the benefit of our best cities, not marginal places.

The two blocking warriors NE of Semarang will eventually die of disease if they're left fortified in jungle. We should unfortify them and just cancel their movement every turn.

 

[Elephantium]

I've got it.

Where are the units in "Bangka Goes East" headed? There's a Settler and a Treb, and I'm not really sure what to do with them...

 

[Northern Pike]

I'd say just send them to our front line in Indochina, whether or not the Indian war is still active when they arrive.

 

[templar_x]

The two blocking warriors NE of Semarang will eventually die of disease if they're left fortified in jungle. We should unfortify them and just cancel their movement every turn.

you can also sentry them, with the same effect on defense like fortification but no risk of disease afaik.
t_x

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the useful reminder.

 

[Elephantium]

Raze Hyderabad
replacement towns as indicated on the screenshot.
Sidarta: Worker pump. Maybe 5->6 rather than 6->7
Semarang: Merge to size 12 for commerce after mkt completes
Workers at Samarinda: 3 road to Hyderabad replacement;
others move to develop Mokoaguow.

Pre-turn:

I change Surabaya to Market to further improve our commerce position.
Change Semarang to Market

I sell Republic to India for 216 gold and then declare!
Cat hits the Archer.
No damage taken while killing the Archer.

Babs and Russia sign peace.
T1 - Just moving troops...
IBT - Two Indian Archers come out of the fog by Hyderabad.
Babs and Egypt sign MA vs. Persia
We lose our Incense.

T2 - Catapult misses
MDI dies and promotes spear (3/4)
MDI dies
MDI, redlined, kills Spear
MDI kills spear and promotes...and destroys Jaipur!

Sell Currency to Zulus for Incense.

IBT - Germany boots us; Babs and China sign MA vs. France.
Germans and Babs sign vs. Persia
France and India are now at peace.

T3 - Pekenbaru founded on [2].
Cat hits Indian Archer
MDI kills Spear
MDI kills second Spear and razes Hyderabad.
I miscalculate and expose a Settler to the Indian Archers -- I thought there was a Pike ready to move to that square
Then I make it worse by exposing the Catapult...but taht I cover with a Warrior.

In the meantime, I buy two Workers from Persia for 250 gold. He wanted Iron, but he's almost as weak as India.

IBT - India kills the Warrior, bombards us with the Catapult, and kills our Settler. Sorry for the screw-up, team.
Egypt completes Knights Templar

T4 - Redlined MDI kills Archer and recaptures Cat
MDI kills Archer and promotes.

Buy Australian Worker for 124 gold.

T5 - Pretty simple troop repositioning.

IBT - looks like we're in good shape for Sidarta. First worker just finished

T6 - GLib is about to expire; Egypt and America just got Education.

IBT - Spices deal expires on the IBT.
Sell Monotheism to Australia for 10gpt (half their available; I want to avoid a bankruptcy-inspired-sneak-attack), 160 gold, and Spices.
Egypt wants us to buy Education. I refuse, of course.
Seconds later, we get it for free.

T7 - settle Tasikmalaya on [2].
Get 4 more Workers and 195 gold from Persia for Education.

T8 - Just shuffling troops...

T9 - America is sniffing near Palembang...hope they're not looking for a fight...

IBT - India landed a Spear next to Depok!

T10 (250 AD) - Knight kills Spear by Depok

 

[LKendter]

WAHOO - roster back to normal.

Perfect timing to be up. This is a boring, nothing to do, weekend.

I wonder if Persia could become a target my turn. I'll have to see how all the cities sit after India dealt with.


ROSTER:
LKendter (up)
Northern Pike (on deck)
Greebley
Commando Bob
Elephantium (just played)

 

[Greebley]

I think going after another civ would be good if we can do it. Our lack of growth last game definitely hurt.

Since we know we want to go for Cavalry, getting libraries (the culture would help too), and starting the GA in the not distant future might be good. Someone is likely working on Invention, but after that any research on chem to mil trad will reduce the price when we buy and if we get lucky and can get to it first using a GA, we can sell to the richest civs which is a huge bonus for us.

Its a bummer the AI got Education before invention. That is very unusual.

 

[LKendter]

The save:

 

[LKendter]

250 AD (0)
We are drowning in cash, so I rush several temples. We really need to up our culture rating. Plus our position in Asia has potential for culture overlap and flips. I want to get ahead in that race.
(IT) Babylon completes Sun Tzu.


260 AD (1)
Getting that last India city isn't practical. I sign peace grabbing a worker from him.
(IT) We get booted by France.


270 AD (2)
(IT) I give America $100 to go away.


280 AD (3)
I grab a worker from Babylon for $125.
(IT) India and Babylon ally vs. France. India proves there death wish and declares on France.
I grab the $209 the India must have gotten from France to declare war for the price on monarchy.


290 AD (4)
I have no idea how 4 city Persia got astronomy. However, he also has 3 workers that I grab for $375.
(IT) India asks us for an alliance. LOL++++++


310 AD (6)
(IT) I don't want BS wars, so I agree to give the clueless Zulu monarchy.
Egypt completes Copernicus' Observatory.


320 AD (7)
(IT) France and Russia get friendly.


330 AD (8)
(IT) France and Babylon get friendly.


340 AD (9)
(IT) Our war mapping pike gets kicked out of Mongolia.

 

[LKendter]

Summary:
I checked around, and the price for invention was too much. At best we get a two for one with Persia for astronomy. I'm of the opinion to let our lone scientist finish invention.



At this point we only have two targets - China and Mongolia.
China is a tech leader. New Tientsen is probably the only city we could grab. Unless we got a very fast peace, the Philippines would be in danger from invasions. The island near Australia has better troops after my turn, but the Philippines still has warriors as the only units in some cities.

Mongolia is behind us needing Theology. We would burn Choyr and see how far we can go from there.

I've improved our stack by the border, but I'm still not sure if this is anywhere close to taking on a civ that we are rated weak against.



ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Northern Pike (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Commando Bob
Elephantium

 

[Northern Pike]

Two rounds of nice development.

I've got it.

I may try to start, or at least set up, a phony war to put us into our GA. The Zulus look like a good choice, since they're close enough for our Bangkas to get there fairly quickly, but far enough away that the war probably wouldn't amount to anything. Would anyone object to this?

 

[Greebley]

I am ok with it but I think we want to try with 2 preferably 3 Banka. Sea battles are easy to lose and a phony war for nothing isn't great. Even better would be bombard to 1 hp, and sink a ship near us, but we likely won't get that lucky with a ship.

 

[Northern Pike]

View attachment LK150-450AD.SAV, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

350 (0): I don't expect to start the Mongolian war this round. As LK observes, we haven't built up much of a strike force.

If we could send the Persians gpt, we might be able to pull off an Astronomy-Invention twofer that would pay for itself. But since the Persians might be eliminated at any point, that's not prudent. We just send Xerxes 275 gold for two more workers.

We sell communications with Brazil around for a few pennies.


360 (1): Bah, Jakarta falls one BG short of working as a one-turn worker pump. The difference from the last game is that it has wheat rather than cows.

We're leaving a lot of gold on the table by not having a marketplace in Jakarta, and a reserve of five settlers is probably enough for now. So I'll let Jakarta grow past size six while working on a market.

We're informed that the Babylonians have wiped out the Persians, so it's a good thing we handled that situation carefully.

Bandung marketplace --> harbour.


370 (2): We send the Zulus Monotheism to renew our supply of incense.


380 (3): We sell Theology to France for 74 gpt and 118 gold.

We could trigger our GA by attacking an Indian galley now--except that we're bound to peace with India for another eight turns. We’ll stalk the galley with Bangkas until the eight turns expire.

Surabaya library --> knight, Bandung harbour --> knight.

The Chinese build Leonardo.


390 (4): Our patience is rewarded as we're able to trade tech for tech: Education and 159 gold to France for Invention. There's no civ with Astronomy and not Invention, though, so no twofer develops.

The tech leaders already have Gunpowder.


400 (5): We get another worker from Babylon, for 80 gold and communications with Brazil.

Bekasi temple --> pikeman, Medan library --> trebuchet, Aliwarga aqueduct --> marketplace.


410 (6): We send Engineering to the Australians for a renewed supply of spices, 9 gpt, and 27 gold. I'd rather have given them gems, since we'll have another source hooked up soon, but they have another supplier.

The Egyptians are buidling Magellan, so they've reached Navigation.


420 (7): Mokoaguow marketplace --> trebuchet.

The Mongols demand Education. I consider rejecting the demand, since the Mongol war will cost us one of our luxuries and it would be good to have war happiness as (temporary) compensation. But I don’t think we’re really ready for the war, and this is a good enough situation overall that we don’t need to gamble. So, we yield up Education.


430 (8): Ibu Rea marketplace --> library.


440 (9): Not much.


450 (10): Two of the four tech leaders now have Banking, and two don’t, so a threefer looks possible. It’ll be expensive, in that we’ll have no opportunity to get our gold back for techs at the end of the process, but I think we have to strike.

So, we first buy Banking from the Sioux for 3000 gold and 90 gpt.

We send Banking and 487 gold to Egypt for Gunpowder. We have one source of saltpetre, already hooked up on our home island. Given our terrain, this is good luck.

We can now see that America has Chemistry, but not Banking, so we don’t have to settle for Astronomy as the third part of the threefer. We thus trade Banking, 98 gpt, and 796 gold to Abe for Chemistry.

After this the four tech leaders all have Banking-Chemistry-Gunpowder, so we have nothing to offer for Astronomy. But the odds are good that before long we’ll be able to trade some combination of those three techs for Astronomy by dealing with a civ slightly behind us in tech.

We sell Monotheism to Venezuela for 34 gpt and 50 gold.

 

[Northern Pike]

The quarry: