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LK155 - CCM, Maya

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    For our next city I would like to take a spot where the Dutch have developed the land.

    At some point we will need more coastal cities. We know at least Carthage is on another land mass. With the number of civs we have found so far, I suspect another land mass. At some point, we will need massive shipping abilities.
     
  2. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    @LK- agreed, Dutch first.

    To be clear, I meant the other spots as options to discuss for the next settlers after we plant a city in ex-Dutch lands.
     
  3. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Preturn: Since we know which tech we are going to buy next, any science towards it will lower the price, so I think it slightly more cost effective to run 20% science. A few builds adjusted because of this.

    1250 AD: Capture the Scout with a Priest.
    Another option other than building wealth is to build units with the intent of disbanding in towns with low shield output. It migrates the shields from fast building cities to slower building ones to get them up and running. I do change 2 towns to units to do this.

    IBT: Scandanavia builds Hanseatic League

    1260 AD: Disband and 8 gold gets us Quirigua's Stone Head to get Iron faster.

    1270 AD: Speed a few builds. I am disbanding injured Cavalry and building replacements.

    IBT: France and Carthage are no longer at war.

    1280 AD: Stack of units is in Worker Housing so now they will heal (in one turn instead of 2).
    Kill Dutch Archer with Enslaver gaining a worker. We cover with a Cavalry.

    1290 AD: Science plan seems to have worked, We can now get Chivalry for an affordable 85 gpt. I buy it from China who we just met. Pick up 17 gpt + change from France for Chivalry.
    Pick up another Slave from a Dutch Archer (Enslaver nearly died). Cover with a Chariot
    Science is back to 0% as I am not sure where we are going next. 3-4 civs has all 4 possible techs, others have 1 or two with Engineering the most known.

    1300 AD: We now have Iron.

    Notes:
    I am stopping here to make a team decision on Canada. The big stack of units could go forward to declare war or back to the town to upgrade.

    We could:
    1) declare war and move into their territory.
    2) Declare war and wait for them to move to kill their speed 2 units.
    3) Our units are obsolete with Iron and can now upgrade. We are Weak compared to Canada.

    Upgrade or rebuild of our units first might make more sense. We are ahead in tech (they need dark ages), but they probably have a lot of units.
    War would be a good way to use up the older units to replace with new, however, our towns don't have Pikes yet. It is therefore a problem if Canada had a stack near another town. At least one stack of 3 did appear near Dutch Territory so they may be on the move.

    Tikal is building Regular knights; I was planning on sending these south for disbanding.
    I accidentally split up workers to the south near Quirigua. Rejoin so two units covering or use units heading that way to cover two stacks.

     

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  4. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Re: Canada: :hammer:

    I'd really like to see us wipe out their fast units (I'd guess we need to handle about 30 units), then burn Quebec and Ottawa. For upgrades, it's 30 gold each to upgrade Chariots (we have 9) and Ancient Cavs (we have 8). That's 510 gold to upgrade everything, but we only have 115 in the bank right now.

    How does this sound? Add another defender to Uxmal and upgrade the Chariot from there, sending it to the front.
    Upgrade the A-Cav by Tikal and the Chariot in Worker Housing, sending them to the front.

    Right now, we have about 30 combat units (including Enslavers and Priests) at Yaxchilan. That should handle the initial surge from Canada, and we can send wounded Chariots and Cavs to upgrade at Worker Housing. After 4-5 turns of absorbing their initial rush, we should be able to take the offensive.

    We should also send the new Meso Pikemen about to be completed to the front; it'll take them 5 turns to get there.
     
  6. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Did Greebley finish his turn or pause to get a team decision?

    Another decision is do we build our next city in former Dutch lands or as a replacement for Ottawa?
     
  7. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Greebley, can you let us know.
     
  8. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    We should certainly try to wipe out Canada's fast units at Yaxchilán before we advance on their cities. I like Tusker's ideas about upgrading.

    Uxmal should work four coastal/sea tiles instead of mined plains tiles. This will give it both more gpt--when it's set to wealth anyway--and fast population growth.

    It probably won't matter, but we should change our fifty-turn run to Navigation, since that's the tech for which we wouldn't mind waiting fifty turns.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  9. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Regarding JJ's question, our next city should definitely go in the Dutch lands. The sites are far better and the process will probably even be quicker, since it'll be a while before the Canadian fast units are neutralized and Ottawa is razed.
     
  10. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Agreed that our next settler goes in Dutch lands. Replacing Ottawa will come later!
     
  11. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    go ahead and play
     
  12. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I got it.
     
  13. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Ten (10) turns of war with Canada and our Troops, except for Enslavers and Priests, have not entered into Canadian territory. The Canucks keep sending warm bodies for us to kill. I think that they might have finally used up most of their excess troops and we can begin to advance.

    I did not check for trades on the final turn.

    Our settler is about 2 turns away from settling in former Dutch Territory. Also, since we have several monks, I send one after the settler so the new city could expand its culture quickly.

    1300AD
    As NP noted, Uxmal switches to work coastal tiles and get faster growth and more gold, also I fire the clown and hire a tax collector.

    We declare war on the Canadians. After we declare war, our brilliant Foreign Advisor informs us that the Canadians are annoyed with us.

    Move SoD into Yaxchilan.

    1310AD I switch Engineering to Navigation.
    By Lagartero: Ancient Calvary kills Spear. (1,0) Javelin kills Archer and we get a slave. (2,0) Javelin kills a Catapult (3,0).

    1320AD
    By Yaxchilan: Elite AC kills Spearman. (4,0) Elite Chariot kills Spearman. (5,0) Elite Priest kills Spearman. (6,0) Elite Cahriot kills Spearman. (7,0) Knight kills Spear (8,0) Knight kills Spear (9,0)

    By Lagartero: We enslave a Padre. (10,0) Enslaver kills an Archer (11,0). We enslave a badly wounded Dutch Pike. (12,0)

    Between turns: Canadian fast units start to arrive near Yaxchilan. (Town renamed Yax since name was to long to type)

    Carthaginians establish an embassy with us.

    1330AD
    By Yax: Knight killed by Chariot. (12,1) Elite AC kills Chariot (13,1) Elite Priest kills Spearman (14,1)

    Between Turns: Some Canadian mobile units head south past Yax.

    1340AD
    I send an Enslaver to investigate the southern movement by Canadian troops.

    Tikal fires its scientist and hires a clown. Uxmal fires its tax collector and hires a scientist.

    By Yax: Elite AC kills Chariot (15,1) Elite Chariot kills Spearman (16,1) Knight kills Spearman (17,1) Chariot kills Spearman (18,1) Catapult kills a Spearman. (19,1) Catapult kills AC (20,1) Catapult kills AC (21,1) Catapult killed by AC (21,2) Catapult kills AC (22,2) Catapult kills AC (23,2) Catapult kills AC (24,2) Catapult killed by AC (24,3) Catapult kills AC (25,3) Catapult kills AC (26,3) Knight kills AC (27,3) Knight kills AC (28,3) AC kills invisible unit (29,3) AC kills Catapult (30,3) AC kills Chariot (31,3) Priest kills a Chariot (32,3) Priest kills a Chariot (33,3) Enslaver kills AC (34,3) Priest kills Chariot (35,3) Priest killed by Chariot (35,4) Priest kills Chariot (36,4) Priest kills Chariot (37,4) Enslaver kills a Chariot (38,4)

    Between Turns: Carthage demands 28 gold. I give it to them.
    By Yax: The Canadian mobile forces return from the south. Knight killed by Archer (38,5) Catapult killed by Archer (38,6) Spearman killed by Chariot (38,7) Javelin kills Mounted Warrior (39,7) Knight kills Mounted Warrior (40,7) Knight kill by Mounted Warrior (40,8)

    1350AD
    By Yax: Cuahchic kills Mounted Warrior (41,8) Cuahchic kills Mounted Warrior (42,8) Enslaver kills Chariot (43,8) Knight kills Chariot (44,8) regular Knight kills AC (45,8) Javelin killed by Spearman (45,9) Catapult kills Spearman (46,9) AC kills Chariot (47,9) Javelin kills Archer (48,9) Elite Chariot kills Chariot (49,9) AC Kills Spearman (50,9) Catapult kills Spearman( 51,9) Priest kills Spearman (52,9) Priest converts Spearman to Monk (53,9) Enslaver captures a Spearman slave (54,9) Knight kills Spearman (55,9) Priest kills Spearman (56,10) Enslaver captures an Archer slave (57,10) Enslaver kills an Archer (58,10)

    Between Turns: By Yax: Enslaver killed by Archer (58,11) Cuahchic killed by Mounted Warrior (58,12) Cuahchic killed by Mounted Warrior (58,13)

    1360AD Move luxury tax to 30% to prevent unhappiness.
    By Yax: Cuahchic kills Mounted Warrior (59,13) Chariot kills Mounted Warrior (60,13) Catapult kills Spearman, (61,13) Priest converts Spearman to monk (62,13) AC kills Archer (63,13) Chariot kills Archer (64,13) Catapult kills Spearman (65,13) Catapult kills Spearman (66.13) AC kills Archer (67,13) Enslaver kills Archer (68,13) Knight kills Spearman (69,13) Knight kills Spearman (70,13)

    By Quirigua: Enslaver forces a Dutch Archer into slavery (71,13)

    Our Foreign Advisor tells us that the Canadian military is about the same size as ours. For reference, Canada will give us 14 gpt for peace.

    1370AD
    By Yax: AC kills Spearman (72,13) Chariot kills Spearman (73, 13) AC kills Spearman (74,13) Knight kills Spearman (75,13) Priest kills Spearman (76,13) Javelin killed by AC (76,14) Catapult kills AC (77,14) Catapult kills Spearman (78,14) Knight kills warrior (79,14) Knight kills Archer (80,14) Elite Chariot kills Archer (81,14) Elite Priest kills Archer (82,14) Knight kills Archer (83,14)

    1380AD
    By Yax: Elite AC kills Archer and Gets a Leader (84,14). Knight kills Spearman (85,14) Priest kills Spearman (86,14) Knight kills Spearman (87,14) Priest kills Spearman (88,14) Chariot kills Archer (89,14) Catapult kills Catapult (90,14) Catapult kills Catapult (91,14) Catapult kills Catapult (91,14) Catapult kills Catapult (92,14) Catapult kills Catapult (92,14) Knight kills Spearman (93,14) Priest kills Spearman (94,14) AC kills Archer (95,14) Priest kills Archer (96,14)

    Between turns: Carthage completes Art of Islam.

    1390AD Yax finishes Temple of the Moon and Leader rushes Marketplace.
    By Yax: Elite AC kills Archer (97,14) Cuahcchic kills Spearman (98, 14) Knight kills Spearman (99,14) AC kills AC (100,14) Knight kills Spearman (101,14) Knight kills Spearman (102,14) Knight kills Spearman (103,14) Knight kills Archer (104,14) Catapult kills Catapult (105,14) Catapult kills Catapult (106,14) Elite Catapult kills Catapult (107,14) Catapult kills Catapult (108,14) Enslaver forces Archer into salvery (109,14) Enslaver kills Archer (110,14) Knight kills AC (111,14)

    Near Lagartero: Priest kills a Missionary (112,14)

    Near Quirigua: Elite Enslaver forces Archer into slavery and we get a Leader. (113,14)

    1400AD Leader rushes Town Center in Quirigua.
    Near Quirigua: Enslaver kills Dutch Spearman (114,14) Enslaver kills Archer (115,14)

    Near Yax: Knight kills Missionary? (116,14) Elite Priest converts Archer to monk (117,14) Knight kills Spearman (118,14) Catapult kills Spearman (119,14) Catapult kills Archer (120, 14) Elite Chariot kills Archer (121, 14) Priest converts Chariot to a monk (121, 14)

    Our ship finds the Germans. They are ahead of us in Tech.

    The Save is below.
     

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  14. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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  15. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    More to do in Canada. :trouble:

    I've got it. Once we're sign peace with Canada, do we want to rotate to USA or head back to the Netherlands? Given the distances involved, I'm on the fence about whether oscillating war is really worth it.
     
  16. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    JJ, an impressive slaughter. :goodjob:

    On the positive side, we're now strong relative to Canada; on the negative, we've got level 1 war weariness. So it's time to push forward and raze Quebec and Ottawa before level 2 WW forces us to make peace, or we'll get nothing at all out of the war.

    I think that fighting another war against an opponent we'd have to wear down from scratch, i.e. America, is out of the question at this point. Our only serious options are to hit the Dutch again, since we're still strong relative to them, or to go into pacifist mode until we can build settlers and actually gain territory from our wars.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  17. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    It would be nice to go into Dutch territory and control the choke point to the rest of the continent before we get settlers. I think we should have a settler ready which won't be for at least 10 turns; longer if we want to settle some other spots first.

    The time to do this is before southern AI's send settlers northward to fill in the lands we cannot now fill. They can still do it with boats, but that is a slower process.
     
  18. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Mid-set teaser:

    We've burned three Canadian cities and made peace to avoid level 2 War Weariness. Our 10th city is built and culture-bombed, but Carthage built a city near our iron/incense city.

    My plan for the rest of the set is to simply move our army back towards the Netherlands.


    Spoiler :

    Pre-turn- look around, tweak a couple of tile assignments.

    IBT-
    Canada wants peace :lol:
    Germany complains about our explorers

    T1-

    Carthage built Hadrumetum near Quiriguá :(
    Canadadian front:
    Cat narrowly kills Spear 1-0
    Cat kills Spear 2-0
    eMeso Knight narrowly kills Spear 3-0

    More enemy units are visible, but I want to press on for Ottawa more than I want to kill more Spears.

    IBT-

    We see one of the Canadian Spears get killed by an Enslaver. Maybe USA?
    A-Cav dies on our Pike 4-0

    Quiriguá completes Supply Center: Incense

    T2-

    Cat kills Spear 5-0
    eCat kills Spear 6-0
    JT kills Spear 7-0
    Enslaver kills Warrior 8-0

    Calakmul built near the ruins of Amsterdam.

    IBT-

    Turkey warns us about our boats.

    T3-

    At Ottawa:
    Catapult dies on eSpear 8-1
    MK retreats
    MK kills Spear 9-1
    Enslaver captures Spear and razes Ottawa! 10-1
    We have three new Workers now :D

    eAC kills AC 11-1
    MK kills Spear 12-1
    MK dies to Spear 12-2

    IBT-

    Pike at Calakmul stops an invisible attack 13-2
    AC retreats
    AC kills our AC 13-3
    AC dies to our AC 14-3

    T4-

    ePriest kills rSpear 15-3
    Enslaver binds enemy Enslaver up with his own chains! 16-3
    Cat kills Spear 17-3
    Cat retreats
    Cat kills Spear 18-3
    Cuahcic kills Spear 19-3
    Priests kill two ACs, gaining one Monk 21-3

    Quebec:
    MK kills Spear 22-3
    MK kills Spear 23-3
    MK kills Spear 24-3
    Priest kills Archer and razes the city. 25-3

    AC kills Spear 26-3
    eChariot retreats
    Priest kills Spear 27-3

    IBT-

    AC dies to MK 28-3

    T5 (1450AD)-

    We've hit L2 WW. It's pretty good timing; I'll just attack Halifax before making peace...

    Halifax:
    MK dies 28-4
    MK kills Spear 29-4
    MK retreats
    MK dies 29-5
    MK kills Spear 30-5
    MK kills Archer; Halifax burns. 31-5

    I sign a straight peace with Canada; they have nothing to take :(

    I culture-bomb Calakmul.
     

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  19. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Nice work finishing off the Canadian campaign, and thanks for the midway report. :goodjob:

    By setting the sliders temporarily to 10-0-0, we can afford to buy Navigation for gpt--from Germany for 172 gpt, for example, though that's not necessarily best. Then it should be simple to parlay Navigation into Engineering, Theology, and Alchemy, since those four techs are spread around amongst civs that have some but not all of them, in the convenient way we rarely see. Finally, we should also be able to trade techs for luxuries and a bit of gold, so that the return to 8-0-2 settings won't be painful.

    After all this our new fifty-turn tech target should be Sacred Music, since we need it eventually, but not quickly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  20. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Tusker, I second NP:
     

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