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LK155 - CCM, Maya

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I've checked more thoroughly. For Navigation, Carthage wants 163gpt; the others all want 170+. Does anyone have any objections to buying from Carthage?
     
  2. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I do not have an objection to trading with Carthage (either 163gpt or 162gpt + 15 gold). In 4 turns our deal with China concludes and we stop paying 84 gpt. We can afford to run a small deficit.

    Personally, I think we should avoid trading Navigation to the Inca, in hopes we can trade our way to Exploration and have a chance to build the Meso-religious Great Wonder.

    Also, I would try to get Alchemy from the USA or the Dutch. Hopefully, you could trade with China or Turkey for Gunpowder or Renaissance.
     
  3. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I'm okay with trading with Carthage. It may make them a big stronger, but with a good chunk of there cities on a island I am not as worried as the early game.
     
  4. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Thinking about it, "Don't trade with the runaway AI" makes more sense in a vanilla game than in CCM. They have more money than everyone else put together already - so much that they can't possibly spend it. What are they going to do with another hundred gpt that they aren't already doing?
     
  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Sadly, Incas got Navigation on their own over the last IBT :(
     
  6. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Yes, and when we allow for the fact that the leading civ only gets the same one settler per twenty turns as the others, runaway civs really don't exist in CCM.
     
  7. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Pre-turn- look around, tweak a couple of tile assignments.

    IBT-
    Canada wants peace :lol:
    Germany complains about our explorers

    T1-

    Carthage built Hadrumetum near Quiriguá :(
    Canadadian front:
    Cat narrowly kills Spear 1-0
    Cat kills Spear 2-0
    eMeso Knight narrowly kills Spear 3-0

    More enemy units are visible, but I want to press on for Ottawa more than I want to kill more Spears.

    IBT-

    We see one of the Canadian Spears get killed by an Enslaver. Maybe USA?
    A-Cav dies on our Pike 4-0

    Quiriguá completes Supply Center: Incense

    T2-

    Cat kills Spear 5-0
    eCat kills Spear 6-0
    JT kills Spear 7-0
    Enslaver kills Warrior 8-0

    Calakmul built near the ruins of Amsterdam.

    IBT-

    Turkey warns us about our boats.

    T3-

    At Ottawa:
    Catapult dies on eSpear 8-1
    MK retreats
    MK kills Spear 9-1
    Enslaver captures Spear and razes Ottawa! 10-1
    We have three new Workers now :D

    eAC kills AC 11-1
    MK kills Spear 12-1
    MK dies to Spear 12-2

    IBT-

    Pike at Calakmul stops an invisible attack 13-2
    AC retreats
    AC kills our AC 13-3
    AC dies to our AC 14-3

    T4-

    ePriest kills rSpear 15-3
    Enslaver binds enemy Enslaver up with his own chains! 16-3
    Cat kills Spear 17-3
    Cat retreats
    Cat kills Spear 18-3
    Cuahcic kills Spear 19-3
    Priests kill two ACs, gaining one Monk 21-3

    Quebec:
    MK kills Spear 22-3
    MK kills Spear 23-3
    MK kills Spear 24-3
    Priest kills Archer and razes the city. 25-3

    AC kills Spear 26-3
    eChariot retreats
    Priest kills Spear 27-3

    IBT-

    AC dies to MK 28-3

    T5 (1450AD)-

    We've hit L2 WW. It's pretty good timing; I'll just attack Halifax before making peace...

    Halifax:
    MK dies 28-4
    MK kills Spear 29-4
    MK retreats
    MK dies 29-5
    MK kills Spear 30-5
    MK kills Archer; Halifax burns. 31-5

    I sign a straight peace with Canada; they have nothing to take :(

    I culture-bomb Calakmul.

    IBT-

    A Missionary fails to convert our Spear at Lagartero. I'm not sure if he retreated or failed.

    T6-

    A JT checks the relevant tile and kills that pesky Missionary 32-5

    Trading:
    I buy Nav from Carthage for 162gpt+10g.
    India buys Nav with Theology and 40g
    USA buys Navigation and Theology with Alchemy, 97 gold, and Elephants :D
    Unfortunately, it looks like we were the only ones lacking Elephants :\
    Austria-Hungary gives us Engineering and 32 gold for Theo+Alchemy
    Turkey sells us Gunpowder for Nav, 48gpt, and 7g.
    China buys Navigation for Gems + 40g.
    Japan buys Navigation for Spices + 16gpt + 10g.

    We're at -66gpt.

    IBT-

    (Canadian) Missionary converts one of our Chariots :( 32-6

    T7-

    MK rides down the pesky Missionary 33-6
    We're "up" to -55gpt :D

    Oh, I should have done this last turn.
    France buys Theology for Silks, 31gpt, and 37 gold.

    IBT-

    Siege Workshop switches to Wealth; the Workshop is obsolete, and we can't build the Great Guild until we get Saltpeter.

    T8-

    zzz...

    IBT-

    Poland builds Sacred Music, and Carthage builds Holy Book Printed

    T9-

    We're back up to +72gpt. I also have two roading crews headed for the saltpeter; we'll want a colony there ASAP.

    IBT-

    Scandinavia demands 57 gold. He gets it...for now.
    Dutch boot our scouting A-Cav.

    T10 (1500 AD, game turn 179)-

    I'm actually running out of Worker tasks; our cities are nicely built up. Now it's a matter of tweaking irrigation vs. mine balance and building convenience roads outside of BFCs.

    IBT-

    Carthage declares war on Mongols!
    Chichén Itza produces a Clan.

    T11-

    It will take 7 turns for the capital and Worker Housing to defend all of our cities:
    1 = To Lagartero
    2 = To Bonampak
    3 = To Uxmal
    4 = To Tikal
    5 = To Worker Housing
    6 = To Chichén Itza
    7 = To Siege Workshop

    We should build Worker-stack defenders for ~4-5 turns before starting that sequence.

    Military plan:
    40 Meso Pikemen (2 in each city, plus coverage for 5-6 Worker stacks, plus a few defenders for the next Dutch war)
    Yax: 2 MKs, 1 Enslaver, 1 Priest (seed garrison for the next Canadian or USA war)
    Calakmul: All other units once we can muster them. Around 20 MKs, 9 Priests, 5 ACavs, 2 Chariots, 7 Catapults, and 7 Enslavers.

    We'll need to disband 10 JTs, 6 Meso Spears, and 1 Cuahchic, building 27 Meso Pikes to replace them (and clear some A-Cavs and MKs from Worker guard duty). That's going to take until the end of the next turnset in Worker Housing and Chichén Itza. I've been pretty aggressively replacing slow defenders with ACavs and MKs to allow the slow guys to be disbanded in our newest cities.

    We don't have Saltpeter; there is a source in USA lands and another in the desert to our south. I've already started roading towards there; our new Settler should go there.



    The red dot gets both cows and the salt in the BFC, but it has some desert tiles.
    Blue doesn't get the salt in the BFC, but it does get it in our borders with one Monk culture-bomb, and it gets some lucrative coastal tiles -- better than land tiles in this game, where we end up with too much production and too-high unit costs.
     

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  8. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I vote blue dot with culture bomb to get the Saltpeter ASAP.

    When it comes to worker tasks, how about the time to chain irrigation to blue dot? I suspect that will take a lot of time.

    I think the Dutch need to be the next war target. Even if we run out of worker tasks for now, having a ton will really help as we place new cities down. Having a ton on standby for when rails arrive will rock.

    ROSTER:
    LKendter (on deck)
    Greebley
    Jersey Joe
    Elephantium
    Northern Pike (up)
     
  9. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Great stuff squeezing Gunpowder out of the tech trades. :thumbsup:

    I like the overall plan of defense.

    I've got it.
     
  10. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    A couple of thoughts:
    We should build the Great Guild in Quirigua not Siege Workshop so we have a "barracks" closer to the front. Quirgua has 30 base shields vs Siege Workshop 28 shields. I am not sure what effect corruption will have, but it will not be large and Quirgua should be able to produce units as fast as Siege Workshop.

    We should build Firelancers not Pikemen. Roading to the Saltpeter should be finished in 3 turns. It will take 8 turns for a city to be built. Therefore, I think we should send a slave there to build a colony. We could build Knights/Wealth for 3 turns then start building Firelancers.
     
  11. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I don't think we *can* build Great Guild anywhere but Siege Workshop -- isn't SW a prerequisite for GG?
     
  12. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Do we want to keep the Javalins given that they can enslave? I got a real worker last time I tried it so I they they may be better than enslavers.
     
  13. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Enslave is good. Cuahchics give us the same benefit AFAIK. Another point to consider is that most of our JTs are on guard duty.
     
  14. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Done, and done. :cool:
     
  15. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    The Save
     

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  16. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    LK155 1505-1560 AD (NP3-77)


    1505 (0): We send Gunpowder and 64 gpt to China for Renaissance. We now have another useful build in all our cities--banks--which will disrupt Tusker's beautifully worked-out plan for a military buildup somewhat. ;)

    We sell Engineering to France for 19 gpt and 3 gold--not much of a price, but it's unlikely we'll get anything more for it at this point.

    The Poles build the Vatican.


    1510 (1): We aren't perfectly set up for the Second Dutch War, but we can see that some of their cities are held by pikemen and some by spearmen, so we'll strike before they complete the upgrade. We road the mountain outside Calakmul that overlooks Haarlem, and concentrate our forces there.

    One of our three exploring merchant ships reverses course, to avoid an absurd situation in which all three would be in the same place in about ten turns.

    Quiriguá windwill --> marketplace.


    1515 (2): We make a couple of failed attempts to provoke the Dutch into declaring war on us, then declare on them.

    We crush a Dutch chariot wandering around Lagartero, and a longswordsman outside Quiriguá (2-0).

    We take and raze Haarlem, defended by three spearmen and a longbowman, for the loss of a knight (6-1). We claim three workers.
     
  17. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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  18. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    The Dutch don't counterattack our advanced forces.


    1520 (3): Groningen turns out to be held by pikemen, so we wait for our catapults to catch up rather than attacking this turn.

    The Dutch muster a decent counterattack out of Groningen, and we lose a knight and a pikeman, while two more of our units redline-retreat (6-3).

    Chichén Itza bank --> pikeman, Siege Workshop bank --> wealth, Lagartero windmill --> granary, Calakmul National Symbol --> granary. Just the completion of these two banks improves our economy by 53 gpt.

    The Chinese complete Forbidden Palace.


    1525 (4): We storm and raze Groningen, garrisoned by two pikemen, a longbowman, and two trebuchets (11-3). We gain three workers.
     
  19. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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  20. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    We mop up a longswordsman and a slaver in the Groningen area (13-3).

    The Dutch land a longbowman near Calakmul, but otherwise don't attack.

    Worker Housing bank --> pikeman, Tikal bank --> wealth, Uxmal bank --> wealth, Bonampak bank --> wealth. This time the new banks improve our economy by 112 gpt.

    The Indians build Angkor Wat.


    1530 (5): We pick off the longbowman landed near Calakmul (14-3).

    Otherwise, we take a healing turn.

    It looks as though another fourfer is available. We set the sliders to 10-0-0, and buy University from the Turks for 347 gpt. We then, in three straight-up deals involving no gold or trade items, send University to China for Sacred Art; trade Sacred Art and University to Germany for Naval Guns; and exchange Naval Guns for Clockworks with China.

    When we return to 8-0-2 we're at -144 gpt. We sell obsolete techs to four civs for a total of 371 gold, 112 gpt, and saltpetre, reducing our deficit to a tolerable -32 gpt.

    We can now build fire lancers instead of pikemen, and when we have our native saltpetre hooked up next turn our extra source may have trade value.

    Yaxchilán bank --> town clock, Quiriguá marketplace --> town clock.

    And answering Tusker's question about what the Carthaginians can even do with their gold:
     

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