LK156, Spain, CCM 2.0

I also peeled of settlers / steamrollers in city that were working underdeveloped tiles. I would rather get another steamroller to be able to fix those tiles.
 
Glad you got out of fascism. I was surprised by that choice given the horrid culture issues.
 
By the way, I still felt that worker management was a PITA. Much less than usual but still too much of a burden.

Civ 6 got something right in that respect actually.
 
I just came back from my holydays and gratulate to the progress you have made in your current succession game. :clap: I have never thought that this game will reach that level in this game with all the tons of errors we have found (and ironed out) in the first betatest version of CCM2.


Governments in CCM2

trying another Government might help with the beta testing.

Yes, new forms of governments are one of the most difficult tasks in modding Civ 3 (that´s why here not much new was created in over ten years of modding Civ 3) and every test is very helpful. :yup:

Fascism:

You may be wondering why I revolted again after just getting to Fascism. The xenophobic attribute with no culture until our cities are mostly native citizens was killing our ability to work toward domination. Some of them would have needed 10+ turns to shrink enough. Then we needed to grow again to make Spanish people the majority.
IMO fascism is a dead government.

Best we can do is build a city next to conquered city and culture bomb that. If I remember correctly the 500 city limit has been lifted.

I don´t think, that Fascism in CCM2 is a 'dead' government. To starve the population of conquered cities down to small numbers in fascism is an obsolete tactics from old standard C3C. In CCM2 you are playing with the Antal1987-4 exe, meaning you can build a fascist 'suburb' in the next neighbouring tile of the conquered city, That suburb can be 'culturebombed' directly after foundation if you have enough great artists or can reach the 10 culture-'fat cross' with some cheap religious communities and the national flag/symbol in a very short time, allowing the conquered city to have access to most of the tiles of the 'fat cross' of the conquered city..

The best tactics for fascist 'suburbs' in my tests was to rush build there only cheap culture buildings for a fast growth of its borders. When the city limit of 512 cities is reached (the Antal4.exe doesn´t increase this limit) such a suburb can be abondened without big losses.

In my eyes fascism still is the best government in building up a big army of veteran units and improving the conquered terrain (as this government still holds the biggest worker bonus) . Gaps in covering territory for a domination victory, that cannot be closed by 'suburbs' can be simply filled up by changing into another non-xenophobic government shortly before the end of the game.

Theocracy:

Theology doesn't end up working well, either. The theory of having larger cities offset the low max slider doesn't actually work out that well in the early-mid game. The monasteries are just too expensive for it to be worth it, even before you consider the expiration date on them.

I agree, that in the last version of the CCM2 biq the costs of monasteries are much too high. In the next version of the CCM2 biq these costs are set to old costs,and the rate cap is 6.


In government Republic the GW 'The Alamo' that provides a war monument to every city of the civ, that cummulative to other buildings lowers the war weariness, helps to lead extensive wars. The Alamo also gives the city where that GW is built, an additional barracks function.

I wonder, why nobody considered Democracy. The war weariness in CCM2 is only 'low' (as it is in Republic), but it has less corruption than Republic. In Democracy the war monuments, that cummulative with other buildings lower war weariness, all must be built normally.
 
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By the way, I still felt that worker management was a PITA. Much less than usual but still too much of a burden..

Why don´t you upgrade your old workers to partisans and use them in war? The partisans in CCM2 can become a very nasty problem even to civs that are not in an official war with your civ.
 
Why don´t you upgrade your old workers to partisans and use them in war? The partisans in CCM2 can become a very nasty problem even to civs that are not in an official war with your civ.
We are still suffering from a worker shortage. With the pop requirement, and high shield cost we can't build steamrollers fast enough. We still badly need the extra help from the old fashioned workers.
 
Fascism You can build a fascist 'suburb' in the next neighboring tile of the conquered city
With settlers costing a pop point now, building 100s of setters to cover this gets very expensive. This might have been a valid plan in the previous version of CCM. However, IMO it isn't with this version. Building spare settlers just to fill in the gaps is tough. Combat settlers are harder to do. The last thing we need is another population drain.
 
Interestingly with Theology, we had some debate in here about whether it would still be useful after the Monasteries went obsolete. However, in my solo game, the real problem came in the early-mid Age of Discovery. I fell behind in research but had no shortage of vet troops. I was only playing on Emperor, so that wasn't a huge problem.

In a Deity game, though... oi. The slider limit is harsh.
 
The Monasteries went obsolete.
This is my main issue with Theology. Spending a ton of shields to get barracks, just to have them disappear.
 
I just thought it was funny that I didn't even notice that aspect in my solo game. The slider limit was the real problem, not the barracks disappearing.

City-State is nice if we get to it early. For the next game, plan on Despotism->City State->Monarchy->Communism?

Civinator, I think we ruled out Democracy because our extensive warmongering requires lots of barracks :cool:
 
Ya even in regular civ we don't go for republic which is probably the better govt - just not for our style of play.

I do think Communism seems pretty decent for our style. I have played 3-4 turns and will likely stop at 5.

We took out Israel and France and started on Korea. I haven't made another war yet as Korea's units are all over.

We have increased our boundaries with new cities. I have to decide if I want to go for the 'big blank spot' more to the north (take the desert up there)
 
Having a desert city lacking irrigation to "gift" to the conquered when we encounter the houseboat bug would be nice.
 
My opinion is settle everywhere possible as sections open up. With Israel dead, we should have several to grab in that area. A self-founded city is just as good as conquered city toward domination. In someways better, as we can set in the optimal border expansion spot.

We shouldn't hit the houseboat bug this game. That is why the settlers are generic this version. The specialty settlers were what was causing the bug to show up so much in CCM.
 
We shouldn't hit the houseboat bug this game. That is why the settlers are generic this version. The specialty settlers were what was causing the bug to show up so much in CCM.
Unfortunately, that fix did not work. Several of the beta testers (myself included) have encountered the houseboat bug.
 
Preturn: Switch a 2 turn Infantry to 1 turn Adventurer. They can spot Invisble units to range 2 and cover fast moving stacks. We don't need many but can free up Infantry.

Start moving on France since we have units sitting around. Kill some French Crossbow.

IBT: No attacks on us. France is sending units at us.

1750 AD:
Israel:
Capture Haifa without loss.
Jerico has only 2 Defenders and falls Easily.
Isreal has one city left. We can get there this turn if we use a settler:
Capture Elath which has a single defender. There is still a settler out there so I build two outposts and new roads. Find the Settler and kill it.
Isreal is now Eliminated.

France:
Captured Lyons losing a Dragoon.
Looks like planting two towns will really help next turn for French Conquest.

Upgrade around 45 Dragoons to Hotchkiss.

This turn I used a bunch of Settlers to fill in Area. I had less war roads to build.

Wittled down a French Stack to allow easy kills (losing Horse Artillery). We got 2 Artists and a Monk this turn.

1752 AD:
Lay down the two towns to reach French Cities
Capture Marselles without loss.
Capure Paris pretty Easily. It was size 3 with no Irrigation and 20 Workers sitting around in the city.
Capture New Orleans which is tough but we get really lucky on the retreats.
Use two Great Artists on Paris and Mountains Edge to reach 2 more towns.
Capture Besancon and Rheims without loss.
Grenoble hasn't had sufficient border expansion, so it is vulnerable from the East. We capture without loss.
The Great Artist we used allow us to reach 2 towns if we build our own with combat settling.
Capture Tours without loss.
Capture Rouen without loss.

Finally we send a Settler out to build a town that will help reach the final known French towns.

We don't really have enough units to start a war with Korea or anything so I don't declare another war.

1754 AD:
French
Build Town and Take out single Defender of Avignon
Use our Lawyers on def 1 units of France (and one Korean) before the final city. All Four of Lawyers succeed and gets us 4 Great Artists!

Take out Chartres:
LK_AD1754.png

Many French leave the map.

A Korean 'Leave or Declare war' and we are at war.

Korea has an annoying number of units near us. It might be nice not to need to kill them. I don't

Move the Artists and Monks; they are annoying in the capitol where I heal.

Build Korean Nemesis to reach first two Cities.

Arequippa falls losing one Hotchkiss.
Cheju has 8 good defenders (and 2 weak) but we still do well with retreats and only lose one Dragoon.
Inch'on which we can reach has 3 defenders and kills 3 Hotchkiss.
Capture Bremen after building a town to reach it (lose a unit).

Line up an attack on Mampo.

Build a city to reach and Capture Taejon losing 2 units. Messed up a bit though; I can't really defend Taejon and will likely have to retake it (only def 3 unit).


IBT: Several attacks by Korea. In once city they kill all the Infantry leaving a def 12 HMG, so they must have used targeted attack.
Taejon does fall to a Lawyer. Cheju and Inchon holds vs attacks.

11756 AD:
Manpo is auto-destroyed with a loss of one Infantry.
Retake Taejon from the invisible lawyer and a defender.

Use a Monk on Taejon and build Abandon 04 to reach size 30 Pyongyang.
Capture Pyonyang with the loss of a Hotchkiss.
Use a Monk on Pyongyang to reach the Capitol Seoul.
Seoul Captured with the loss of 3 Hotchkiss and we get World Buddism.

I mis-move a Partisan so when I get an Artist I use it to build Abandon 06 and capture Wonsan
Cover the Partisan so it won't get killed by the stack next to it.

As mentioned before it would be nice to not deal with the large number of Korean Units:

The 'planning ahead' to try to take out Korea next turn.
LK_AD1756Korea.png

A spy to make sure Korea has 5 cities.
In the Image below, Yellow Circles are stacks of Hotchkiss moved into slow terrain to take two cities hard to reach, Hyangsan and Paegam
Red circles are settlers that can settle and allow Hotchkiss to get to Pyongsong, Nampo and Pusan. A border expansion of Seoul would get us Pusan, but that takes 2 turns.

Lost 3 Artillery type units in battles we have favorable odds.

I rush more settlers and a few Steam Engine to replace upgraded Workers. I hadn't realized the upgraded to Partisans.

IBT: Abanon 04 and Abandon 05 are lost. I guarded them more lightly so the AI went for them.
The Koreans take a long time to move all their units. I will be glad if I can remove them from the map. A lost Settler will be a big bummer.

1758 AD:
Build red circle cities.
Attack on Paegam loses an attack 16 flame thrower and city is Captured.
Hyansan also falls without loss
Pusan costs us 3 units to Capture including our Supertank.
Nampo has 7 defenders and costs us 3 Hotchkiss.
Pyongsong cost us a Partisan. We capture the city and Korea is destoyed. Their hundred odd units come off the map.

Lose a Lawyer vs a Golden Horde horse unit. W have having really bad luck with our unique untis this turn.

Another Artist

Made some more Partisans. They can reach distance 3 cities.

Notes:
We have unused units near the Capitol. I didn't want to start the next war.
The road north is kind of vulnerable this turn (see image). Maybe attack the easier Nubia (and/or British) if you want to fight this turn and not the US or Mongols.

Units are mostly near the capitol

Image: Decided to head towar filling in the Northern Bald Spot.
LK_AD1758Korea.png
 

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I was going to rush some more steam rollers to replace workers that are now partisans. The next player can do so if they find the number of Steam rollers small. Note that I left some steam rollers unused near the capitol so the war could start this turn if desired. They are fortified.

I found the number sufficient for war and settling new areas, but improving existing towns is slow. OTOH the game is getting near the end so improving cities doesn't help as much.
 
Upgrade around 45 Dragoons to Hotchkiss.
Our favorite upgrade has arrived.

I rush more settlers and a few Steam Engines to replace upgraded Workers. I hadn't realized they upgraded to Partisans.
I hope we didn't upgrade too many of the workers. I was quite frustrated my turn with lack of ability to fix cities / rail to front / rail to new city spots.


Good riddance for France. Even those small civs gone will increase our land percentage. At this point that is the main thing that matters. I don't see how we can lose this game at this point.



ROSTER:

LKendter
Greebley
Jersey Joe (up)
TheRat (on deck)
Elephantium
 
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The hotchkiss have the ability to choose units which gives us the ability to see how many defenders up front.

I found the workers really inefficient compared to the Steam Rollers and Given the choice between 2 1/2 steamers or 24 attack/def 8 units, the latter is much more important. We can rush more Steamers or set cities to them if we need be. I didn't do all workers, but I think the next player should.
 
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