LK158, CCM2, Canada

[LKendter]

Now have heard from everyone but Elephantium on starting another.

 

[Greebley]

I like the idea of waiting for the new version as well.

 

[LKendter]

LK159 roster:
LKendter
Jersey Joe
Greebley (wait new CCM version)
TheRat (wait new CCM version)

Elephantium - status?

 

[Elephantium]

I'm in, too. AWCCM sounds fun - maybe step down a difficulty for it. Waiting for the new CCM version is probably a good idea.

 

[LKendter]

LK159 roster:
LKendter
Jersey Joe
Greebley (wait new CCM version)
TheRat (wait new CCM version)
Elephantium (wait new CCM version)


CCMAW - How do we have any chance to keep up in tech? That is the big question that makes me leery about trying that.

 

[ThERat]

Possible if you can take the GL. After that, it is simply by expanding and taking over enemy cities.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:
How about a modification of AW. Have to DoW first x civs you meet. Have to stay at war with any that declare. Only can Dow, if you have had contact with a unit for a given civ. Won't be long till it is a full AW, but buys a little time.

 

[ThERat]

Handy's grumpy old men used to have the rule that tech trading would be allowed on contact before DoW. Obviously no gpt deals allowed, only straight up deals. That might help too.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I am in favor of waiting for the next release of CCM2.

CCMAW - How do we have any chance to keep up in tech? That is the big question that makes me leery about trying that.

Civinator mentioned the possibility of not allowing mines to be built on grassland tiles or forest tiles.

Possible if you can take the GL. After that, it is simply by expanding and taking over enemy cities.

Israel, Russia, and Germany all start with Writing and Warrior Code. Picking one of those nations would let us immediately start learning Literature, and have a good chance to build the Great Library. They all are Militaristic and Scientific.

Personally, of the 3, I prefer either Russia or Germany since (unlike Israel) their Golden Age probably will occur in the Age of Discovery (second era), after the Great Library is obsolete.

 

[LKendter]

My guts say AW would be extremely hard since we normally survive early with tech trading. Often get a bonus with trading away a resource early.

How low a level are you willing to play? We have never self-research before the at least late second age. In this case, we have to pull it off the first age. We typically need 2+ civs under our control to be self-reliant, and that takes time.
My gut says even Monarchy will be tough if we meet to many civs early on. Civ3 AW faces a max of 6 civs. If the random map is Pangaea we could have 10+. The free military buildings make it worse as we have 1 slavers hut fighting 10 slavers huts, etc.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Literature will be the only tech we have to research (assuming we could then build The Great Library) in the first Era.
Deity level will probably take us 50 turns to research Literature and if we can then produce 10 shields per turn (cannot mine grassland tiles) it will take us 40 turns to build the GL.
Monarchy will give us 1 more default happy face, but it will probably still take us 50 turns to research Literature, and another 40 turns to build the GL.
Even with a couple of gold mine hills, some bonus food, and a happy resource this looks like with will be very tough.

If we can survive the first 100 turns or so without losing a city, we should start to dig out of the hole we are in.

 

[LKendter]

I don't like the idea of having to plan on getting the Great Library. If we fail, then what is the plan? If we have multiple wars going by then, tying up a city on the GL will be very painful.

No way I do AW on deity...

 

[ThERat]

There is no way to survive AW on deity in CCM2, even vanilla c3c is hardly doable. I have been playing a few AW CCM2 games and have to say, with Italy, DG is barely winnable and only if you are in a 'suitable' corner of the world, where you don't meet more than 3 civs early on. AWE is more likely to net a good result and would give some flexibility in terms of civ choices.

By the way, the assumption of 1 versus 10 slaver huts isn't correct. The AI frequently attacks random units with their invisible units.

The issue I have is that playing deity seems no challenge at all here.

 

[LKendter]

The issue I have is that playing deity seems no challenge at all here.

Don't forget LK157 Maghreb was a loss.
This game had a few tough ones like India. Don't know what it would have been like if we didn't have the mountain range to funnel them.

 

[gozpel]

Some nice people here still doing civ3. I understand why too, as in civ3 you could do this, after the new games SG's dies out, which is sad.

I have read through old SG's, and my humble apology to you Rat for doubting you in Silence is Golden. You were and are a master.
Lee, thank you for following it through in the Squeeze Rematch, if we only had one iron we would've won that, honestly.
And also Greebley, I didn't play with you much, but you always supported us.

What is this mod?

 

[ThERat]

Wow, gozpel...I remember that Silence is Golden madness. I had a lot to learn then, no way a master. I joined the grumpy old men then and learned my AW trade the hard way with the ultimate AWD win on a standard pangaea. Great folks then, absolutely amazing games. With Civ 4 it all fell apart though...forget about civ 5/6 for SGs.

CCM2 is an amazing mod though, there is a whole section on it under Mods. It tackles plenty of issues with C3C including the ICS. Try it

 

[Jersey Joe]

What about a sort of religious Always War. On a quick count I find 16 Christian civs and 15 non Christian civs.
Play a random Civ.
Once we are at war with a civ we may not make peace.
If our civ is Christian :

• We must declare war on any non-Christian civ.
• We can only trade with other Christian civs.
• We may, if we want, declare war on any Christian civ.

If the Civ is Not Christian:

• We must declare war on any Christian civ.
• We can only trade with any non-Christian civs.
• We may, if we want, declare war on any non-Christian civ.

 

[Civinator]

What about a sort of religious Always War. On a quick count I find 16 Christian civs and 15 non Christian civs.
Play a random Civ.
Once we are at war with a civ we may not make peace.
If our civ is Christian :

• We must declare war on any non-Christian civ.
• We can only trade with other Christian civs.
• We may, if we want, declare war on any Christian civ.

If the Civ is Not Christian:

• We must declare war on any Christian civ.
• We can only trade with any non-Christian civs.
• We may, if we want, declare war on any non-Christian civ.

CCCM2 : Crusade CCM2

Btw.: There is progress in the CCM2 update. More than 30 new units are now added (many more are still to add). The arrow-graphics for the new techtrees are done, but for screenshots the new additional unit lines for improved predreadnoughts, improved armored cruisers and early dreadnoughts must at least be present in the techboxes.

 

[Greebley]

I think SID would be playable. Keeping up in tech would be the biggest issue. The AI cannot completely outgrow us like c3c due to the limited cities.

A less good start could also be a bigger challenge. We had 3 pigs for this one.

 

[CommandoBob]

Lurker:

Another variant idea:

Instead of using religion as the criteria, what about the alphabet?

If your civ has a name that begins with the letters A to M, any civs you meet with names that begin with A to M are friends; those whose names that begin with N to Z are enemies. You cannot turn on your friends until all your enemies are dead.

Would seem a bit easier to remember at a glance who is friend or foe.

Could be confining if you meet a lot of friends early.

Maybe, initially you are too savage to recognize friendship and thus DoW on the first 3 civs you meet and then become "enlightened". The wars would not have to stop, you would just "strive to do better".