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LK161, Australia, CCM 2.5, 180K goal

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    It finally feels like 180K is moving. I see more artists walking to it. :)

    I don't know why we have supply shipments by home. They don't work this game, as I turned it off to stop MapStat from crashing on me.

    We are just 6 techs from Rails and Crystal palace (2 free techs). We get can the last of naval power from USA for spices, coffee and < 1300 (didn't haggle). We have hit the empire size where we really need railroads built.
    We need to buy military tradition soon. I know it kills castles, but we can't afford to lose the race to first for Crystal Palace.

    ROSTER:
    LKendter
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley (up)
    Elephantium (on deck)
    Don’t build an opera in 180K. We agree not to use the 2X to 4X exploit for monks / artist
    Cultural win progress:

    850 AD: 11,978 / 180,000 6.6%
     
  2. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Ok, I have got it.

    Since we have peace with France, I will likely starve their cities down in the hopes of lessening or removing flip risk.
     
  3. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Spain is to far away for city capture right now. My goal would be quick peace.
     
  4. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Question: Napoleonic Age is France only. If they build it and we capture the city that has it, do we get the benefits of the France Only wonder?

    I ask because it includes Barracks in every city on the continent and would fix our problem of no vet units now that we have Mil Tradition. Might even be worth helping them build earlier if so.

    However, I don't remember getting civ specific wonders, so I am not sure we can capture or not.
     
  5. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Greebley, the Napoleonic Era is a GW, so if you capture the city you also gain that GW and its benefits.
     
  6. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    If we want to build the Crystal Palace, I think Hobart might have a better chance of building than 180K would. As of right now, Hobart only has enough food to support a population of 19. If it had a population of 19 it would be producing over 90 shields per turn.
    180K only gets into the 90's by using Engineers. I think our Golden Age will end at about the time Napoleonic Age is learned. Which ever city we designate to build the Crystal Palace needs to build both a Factory and a Gas Holder for the extra Shield Bonuses.

    The best would be to have a pre-build to swap to a Factory (to build it on the turn we learn Industrialization) and then short rush the Gas Holder so we have a couple of turns to pre-build the Crystal Palace.
    When Railroad is learned we need to start railing the hills and forests. We should complete a rail in 1 turn. Preferably, have 2 groups building 2 rails per turn.

    If we are going to use Hobart, it will need some pre pwork.
    Before Industrialization is learned we need to finish mining the 2 hills and before we learn railroads we need to finish mining the mountain.
    When Industrialization is learned (if not before) we merge slaves from conquered nations in Hobart to bring it up to 19 population.
    First thing to rail in Hobart is 2 grasslands so we can have a population of 20 (merge another slave) and work the mountain for an extra 4 shields.
     
  7. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I ran a test, and you can merge slaves. Did something change with that? I thought we couldn't do that. I still prefer 180K for Crystal Palace.

    Good point about the workers. We need to start moving workers toward 180K soon. I would stick to 180K for wonders as the base tile development is already there.
    Looking at the tech tree, we need to plan even earlier. Napoleonic Age has Code Civil doubling happy of courts. That is another happy in all cities for us. In addition, I don't want to worry about a wonder cascade with another civ swapping from Code Civil to Crystal Palace stealing it from us.

    Stick with instant buy of Naval Power. Start research at max on enlightenment. Buy military tradition with Free Artistry when Taj Mahal is 1 turn away. Once we start research on Napoleonic Age

    How about military academy in Hobart?
    Can we sneak in Spy Palace in 180K? It is 5 CPT, and we may want to start using spies at some point.

    JJ is really good with planning wonders. Any comments JJ?
     
  8. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    180K should finish building the Taj Mahal on the same turn Arabia and India learn Enlightenment. It will then take them another 4 turns to learn Napoleonic Age. A good time to build the Great Palace and the Military Academy.

    180K will lose 9 Shields when we learn Enlightenment and Slavery goes obsolete. However during our Golden Age its base will then be 76 shields per turn (with 1 cop), so it can build the Great Palace (300 shields) in 4 turns.
    I do not know exactly when our Golden Age will end (I think some think in the next 10 turns). As a precaution 180K should build the Great Palace with max shields ( in the 90's right now).

    The same is pretty much true for Hobart building the Military Academy (300 shields). With a population of 19 Hobart should be able to Produce about 78 shields per turn without Slavery (during our Golden Age) which will be 4 turns.
    If we are going to merge in slaves, I would wait until either Hobart is going to grow on the next turn or, we are going to start building the Military Academy. I would be nice to have the Granary as full as possible since if our Golden Age ends we might have to run some Engineers at the expense our food reserves to finish the Academy in 4 turns.

    As for workers, There is a worker gang at Darwin which will not be able to do much there until we make peace with Spain (or kill them all :mwaha: ). There is a second gang mining the forests by Elephantium Prime.

    There are 2 Worker gangs in Melbourne which can finish its base tile development in 860AD and move up to Hobart. Hobart's base tile development is almost done only need to mine and road 1 mountain, 1 hill, plus finish the mine currently in process.

    We might consider researching Democracy (8 or 9 turns during Golden Age) instead Napoleonic Age (10 or 11 turns), we are not going to out research Arabia and India. To have a chance at the Crystal Palace we will need to trade for or, steal ;) Napoleonic Age.


    Edited for spelling
     
  9. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    I actually started playing before I got to read all of the above, so I didn't follow it. 180K rushed the war Memorial last turn after the Great Palace completed so should start a prebuild for the next wonder.

    Anyway here is the report so you can use it to come up with what to do now. Demo is known for example which may mean a delay before Nepoleonic is out.
    -----------------------------
    Preturn:
    Put French cities to starving.
    Do the Coffee, spices, 1247 gold for Naval Power from USA.
    Get 543 gpt, Mil Trad, 4800 gold from Lowlands for Naval Power, Fine Art, and Rubber (They actually have more gpt remaining)
    Can trade spices and Naval power for 295 gpt + 580 gold from Nubia.

    I am not sure Spain is 'too far away' or not. If we cannot go for France, Spain and Greece are next closest. One of their cities is only 6 or so sqaures away from us. However, we will see how it plays out before making a decision. It is true our forces are on the wrong side of our empire for attacking Spain. I may move on Spain and if they don't make peace soon enough they will find us moving on their cities.

    Do other trades for older tech. We are pulling in 1975 gpt in the end.

    IBT: We lose the two exposed Grenadier near Hyangsan but take 3 units with us.

    860 AD: Lose two Grenadier to one of the Spanish Pike that showed up near Hyangsan.

    Kill off stack that appeared; two Lawyers get 2 Great Artists which is nice. We do leave a Hussar exposed; Not sure why it didn't have 2 movement - must have used the wrong one?

    Hobart started Mil Academy due in 5.

    IBT: Lose exposed Hussar.

    870 AD: In some of the worst RNG I have seen in a while, our 5 healthy attack 6 units are not able to kill 3 Pike - in fact, one is still at full health, the other two are down a hit point.

    Some trades for old tech. A lot of unit movement.

    IBT: Noone built Taj Mahal so we should be able to get it next turn.

    880 AD: Kill a small stack using healed units.

    IBT: Canabera riots though I thought I had checked before. Note that Lux is zero now. Scroll ahead to make sure Taj Mahal isn't affected if we got a change in happiness.

    We do get Taj Mahal this turn and start Great Palace.


    900 AD: Spain will make peace but we got a potential attack on the nearest Spanish city, and we can try for monks and artists if at war, so I continue. I don't want to switch to Greece.

    Also Pamploma has Tabaco which we are missing. Definitely we want this city.

    Our attack 6 units have a really hard time with the defense 3 Pike. This is due in part to xbow getting defensive fire, but also just bad luck. To make things worse, this turn we don't retreat so lose like 5 units.

    With 2 turns left, USA owns Enlightenment. We can buy it for 2130 (we are currently at 2540 gpt. Turn around and pick up 375 gpt + change from Nubia and 114 gpt + 1000 gold from Lowlands. A few other older tech deals and we are up to 3118 gpt.

    Rush many builds since we have strong gold. We are back down to 16K gold

    IBT:
    Napoleonic Age is next for RR.

    910 AD: Attack and Capture Pamploma. Suddenly 5 Tabacco is ours (one is under the city)

    IBT: The Arabs destroy Maghreb.
    Golden Age Ends. Sniff. We will miss you.

    920 AD: Larger numbers of Spanish are now near our city. We kill what we can. There will likely be counter attacks. Find an Kill a Spanish Lawyer

    IBT: Lose Grenadier and Musket but take units with us before we die. The AI Pillages for the first time.

    930 AD: Another Great Artist. Clear out the main stacks of Spanish. There are now scattered newer units coming from Spain.

    There are also units near Pamona. They may pillage a Tobacco if they send enough Pike.

    940 AD: Priest dies to a Crossbow.
    Spent more on buildings again.

    950 AD: Moving units toward Pamona.

    Notes:
    I am inclined to take more of Spain. I think Spain switched focus to Pamona as all units retreated. Started updating to Light Horse with attack 8 which should have better luck than attack 6. It is 8 more turns until we could go for France, so I sent units toward Pamona.
    LK161_AD950b.png
    However, if we don't want more of Spain we could turn around and wait a bit for the France end of treaty.
    LK161_AD950c.png
    The one thing I haven't yet done for the turn is plant the settler shown in the following image (our Saltpeter has been threatened so I would like it inside our city space). I was thinking of building where it is now, but it occurred to me with Camel within radius we could get another city that builds vet units. If we want that we can move the unit toward the Camel to build Desert Fort which gives a shield bonus, and normal vet powers.
    LK161_AD950a.png

    Democracy is available; it is the one tech we don't need for RR. India, USA and Arabia have it.
    Nubia and Lowlands have the same tech as us. Everyone else is behind us, IIRC.

    I am building War Memorials, another science building. Leaving the GA means our rate of science is down a bit.

    I am also trying out building coastal battery. They eventually give free boats and might help with Coastal Bombardment. I haven't really investigated them before, but I know some towns have had them in previous games.
     

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  10. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Note, I think we should try getting barracks via France. Once we know Napoleonic Age, we gift it to France. We wait for their wonder to complete and then capture it for Barracks everywhere.

    We can continue against Spain, and probably take it out before France completes the Wonder. We will likely have rails so moving back to France will be fast.

    Double check that I got their wonder right.

    Note that I have been building units so we have a lot of regulars. I have had poor luck in them becoming vet.
     
  11. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    180K is really moving. I suspect the game will be over by culture before we take over our continent.

    I vote to shift the settler to get the camel in the second ring for Desert Fort.

    Napoleonic Age is 6 turns away. Please switch 180K to battlefield medicine immediately. That will be the prebuild for Code Civil. We are already behind in prebuild timing, so we need it now.
    Please buy democracy soon. 180K is tied up, so we need to find another city to build the Capital. This acts like the FP. Any corruption reduction helps. Constitution gives us another happy face.

    If the AI completes Napoleonic Age before us, we need to buy the remains and start on industrialization. If we somehow complete first, then don’t trade it.

    We also have Olympic Games (Imperialism) coming up for 1 happy face AND double colosseums.

    Once we learn railroad, our workers need to start converging on 180K.

    Sadly, have to leave for work. There is even more I would like to talk about. The end of this age is loaded with wonders we want.


    ROSTER:
    LKendter (on deck)
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley
    Elephantium (up)
    Don’t build an opera in 180K. We agree not to use the 2X to 4X exploit for monks / artist
    Cultural win progress:

    950 AD: 25,150 / 180,000 13.9%
     
  12. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Greebley, I thought you would have tougher time verse the Spanish that you did. Well done. :goodjob:

    If 180K switches to Battlefield Medicine and hires a cop and 5 Engineers it will generate 60 Shields per turn. When we learn Napoleonic Age it will have accumulated 360 Shields, can switch to Code Civil (400 Shields to build) and build it the following turn.
    After building Code Civil 180K should start building Battlefield Medicine again (maybe at 50 shields per turn) need to try and judge when we will get Railroads.

    The best Civ to trade with for Democracy might be India (we can trade them Elephants) .

    I think Nampa should have its 2 hills and mountain mined/roaded plus enough grassland irrigated to support working the hills and mountain.

    Hobart can work 1 less mountain and work another grassland to grow quicker and still produce a Light Horse in 2 turns. I think we should mine/road the 1 mountain and 1 hill at Hobart to complete its basic tile development. This bring the workers closer to 180K for railroads. Another place for workers would be to mine a few Forests at Elephantium Prime.

    Seoul might be a good place for the Capital.
     
  13. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    We have a LOT of resources / luxuries to sell. Can we get decent money for them. My only request is to NOT sell to France. I don't want to be tied into any deals with them.
     
  14. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I need a swap, maybe a skip. I'll have scant time to play before Sunday.
     
  15. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Got it, it may take me a while. I can start now, but time is tough.
     
  16. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    What do you think about gifting France to the Napoleonic Age. Sure it gives them a Golden Age, but I think the Barracks in every city is worth first waiting for them to complete it their wonder. Though before doing this double check I read the entry right. I think it is Barracks for every city on the continent.
     
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  17. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Greebley, gifting France is an interesting idea, but we would also need to give them the 6 other techs the are required to "unlock" Napoleonic Age. Then we have to hope that they build it in Paris, Tours or, Orleans which should take less than 5 turns. We cannot attack France until or peace treaty ends in (I think) 8 turns. If in things work out for us during those 8 turns, we should have started our prebuild for the Crystal Place. If we get Explosives the turn before we complete the Crystal Palace, the 2 free techs puts us in the next era with only needing to learn 2 techs to revolt into Communism. I we do not get Explosives we are 3 techs away from the revolution.

    If we gift France all the techs they need for Napoleonic Age as soon as we learn it, and they might enter their Golden Age just as our Peace Treaty ends. It will take 2-3 turns to have troops able to attack the city that build the Napoleonic Age wonder. So we will be capturing the wonder at about the time we are completing the Crystal Palace.

    If we do gift France and capture the Wonder we do not have to rush to get Communism and can first learn the techs that provide useful Wonders (like settlers and planting forests).

    After somewhat making a case to not gift techs to France, I think we should try it.
    We are going to conquer France when the Peace treaty ends so we are not going to trade with them. Therefore, gifting France the techs will not cost us any direct income. If France sells the techs to other civs we should get some of there profits when we capture their cities.
    Also, it sounds like a fund idea.

    Barracks (go obsolete when we learn Early Tanks) are only for this Land mass, but we may win the game without leaving it.
     
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  18. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Oh I also agree on building desert fort after thinking about it some more.
     
  19. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Haven't gotten far with this set. Won't finish to early next week.
    I did move the city to get camels in the borders.
    France will get Napoleonic Age once we have build Code Civil.
     

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