1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

LK161, Australia, CCM 2.5, 180K goal

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    You do realize that 700,000 culture completes world wide culture?
     
  2. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,934
    Yes, this must be raisen, too - but the main problem is the cummulation of culture points in one city and the use of monks and great artists. As these units only can be used once and make the 'big part' of the culture points, the values for a single city cultural victory and a world wide culture victory are not so far in distance from each other in CCM2.
     
  3. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,366
    Location:
    Idaho
    Limiting it to only 1 building that doubles the effect seems about right. That would mean 90 Great Artists to hit 180000. Decreasing the shield value for monks by half so they give 100 culture instead of 200 would seems acceptable. You still get the 100 culture border expansion, but you might not get all the tiles 200 culture would give you.

    I think it would make strategy more interesting. Do you to choose use an Artist for a large border expansion to make attacking deeper into enemy territory easy, or add to a city's culture in quest of 180000 culture?

    We got most of our 70 Great Artists after we learned the Napoleonic Age (Monasteries made obsolete). Plus, our ability to get Great Artists decreased significantly after we killed off the backward civilizations. Lawyers are not meant to attack Infantry and Tanks.

    In the last game we played I think the Aztec's might have had the only city (their Capital) to have greater than 10000 culture and I think it was less than 12000.
    With respect to Monasteries, the doubling for Sacrifices would be nice if you could sacrifice population in return for shields, but that was changed to paying gold to rush production.
     
  4. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,366
    Location:
    Idaho
    Not my usual kind of turn set. I did not even attack 1 person. :yup:

    Ending 1725 BC: Culture Win Progress in 180K: 20

    1700 BC: 180K builds Temple starts on Academy.
    S. Africa establishes an embassy in Canberra.​

    1675 BC: Canberra grows and hires a Scientist. Research rate dropped to 0.

    1575 BC: Canberra Slaver’s Hut -> Slavery.

    1550 BC: Melbourne Flag -> Temple.

    1350 BC: Trade Rome Coffee + 282 gold for Code of Laws.
    Trade Code of Laws to Russia for 52 gold and 6 gold per turn.​

    1300 BC: Iron City is founded.

    Culture Win Progress in 180K: 62/180000

    Notes:
    • We can get learn Trade from Spain for:
      • Code of Laws
      • Hardwoods. We do not need until we can build Siege Workshop.
      • Coffee. Mine will finish this between turn and then 3 turns to road next Coffee.
      • Lump Sum and Gold per turn
    • Canberra + Melbourne (along with Temple already in 180K) will give us the 3 Temples we need for Christian Community.

     

    Attached Files:

  5. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    Summary:
    I like the idea of getting Christian Community. That would be a great win for our 180K city.


    ROSTER:
    LKendter
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley (up)
    Elephantium (on deck)

    Cultural win progress:
    1725 BC: 20 / 180,000.
    1300 BC: 62 / 180,000.
     
  6. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,366
    Location:
    Idaho
    Given the discussion on culture doubling buildings, maybe we should deem having more than 1 culture doubling building per city an exploit. We could limit each of our cities to 1 such building.
     
  7. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    I have to agree. We could end the game absurdly early doing that.
     
  8. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,934
    That is true, but I´m sure you will discover soon without any problems, that 'farming barbarians' can be a very interesting option to receive easy targets for lawyers and even holy men throughout the complete game. :D
     
  9. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    ROSTER:
    LKendter
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley (up)
    Elephantium (on deck)

    Cultural win progress:
    1725 BC: 20 / 180,000.
    1300 BC: 62 / 180,000.
     
  10. Dwarven Zerker

    Dwarven Zerker Just one more turn Honey!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Colorado
    I'm sure you thought of this, but what about making the buildings go obsolete so only one provides the doubling benefit at a time? Either the next building makes the previous one obsolete or a tech serving as a gateway to the next building.
     
  11. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,282
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Ok I got it.
     
  12. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    :bump:
    Overdue for Greebley results
     
  13. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,282
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Apologies, my time to play last weekend kept getting messed up, but not in time to ask for a skip. I will see if I can play a weeknight since the turn shouldn't take long
     
  14. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,282
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    As a note, going for Literature and getting the Great Library might have been interesting. Getting the free tech known by 2 AND a settler every 10 turns, it is a nice deal even though it lasts only for a short time.
    ------
    My turn:

    1200 BC: Get Another Coffee but not in time to trade for trade - Spain got the missing tech.
    Trade older tech for some gold and also gems which lowers lux to 10%

    Russia doesn't have Mysticism, but does have Riding.
    Get Mysticism from Korea for Coffee and Hardwood and 214 gold.
    Get Riding from Russia for Mysticism, 157 gold, and 10 gpt.

    Note: We could build near the Camels to the north of us to get Desert Fort which can build Vetran units. There are also Horses in that direction as well as another Iron.

    1175 BC: Meet Persia with our Boat but they are behind in tech.
    Have to go back to 20% lux as our capital grew.

    1150 BC: Hannibals code and Great lighthouse competed.
    180K city builds Granary. Start on Slavery next.

    1125 BC: We get some excellent luck and Japan gets Trade first. We can trade Mysticism, Riding, and Naval warfare to get Trade and 10 bucks.

    Mathematics remains out there if one of the other civs with few techs can get it. I gift Writing to France (pre-req for Math) to add another civ that might get it: Will be checking France, Israel, Persia, Spain for Math

    1075 BC: Alternatively we could meet the Lowlands and Trade Mysticism and 76 gold for Mathematics. A scout met them rather than a boat near some internal Sea. We are not caught up in tech
    LK161_Lowlands.png
    Start the Siege Workshop in 180K but we should discuss if we want to complete it there. It will be another culture, but also a source of Vet Units so might be better elsewhere. Right now there is no decent spot however. We could switch to a Market if we want it somewhere else.

    1050 BC: Several civs now have Monarchy, so tech parity was brief indeed.
    We got another Coffee and get a nice 10 gpt + 28 gold for it.

    Get a demand of 21 gold from Nubia which I pay.

    1025 BC: Spices are connected. Lost the scout that found Lowlands.
    Can go to 10% lux again. Now Construction and Philosophy are known. We could barely afford Philosophy, the cheapest of the available tech so no trade.

    1000 BC: One of our boats was lost trying to back track. The other one has almost completed circling. This is turn 80 so a good stopping point.

    Notes:
    If we don't want Siege workshop in 180 K, we could switch to Slavary and take the -1 culture hit for the shield bonus. Melbourne for example could build it instead.

    We can now build the Christian community.

    Not sure on the Melbourne Spearman - it would be regular, but we are getting threats so I thought maybe more units. We also could use more for worker defense.

    We could also consider going after the Koreans at some point in the future. I think taking that peninsula would be our first target as it keeps the front line short.

    Our lands:
    LK161_BC1000_Home.png

    There is a sea in our continent that appears not to be connected to the ocean. It seems pretty sizable. Below is pieces of it we can barely see.
    LK161_BC1000_InlandSea.png
     

    Attached Files:

  15. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    My vote is to take the culture hit, and switch 180K to slavery. After that is done grab the cheap Christian community to offset it.

    We are doing great on the map knowledge we are getting.


    ROSTER:
    LKendter (on deck)
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley
    Elephantium (up)

    Cultural win progress:
    1000 BC: 122 / 180,000
    1300 BC: 62 / 180,000.
    1725 BC: 20 / 180,000.
     
  16. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,366
    Location:
    Idaho
    I agree. We should switch 180K to Slavery and build the Siege Workshop in Melbourne. 180K needs to be able to build culture first and only build troops when no other buildings are available.
    Personally, I would have workers building mines on 180K's other 2 hills before working on the grasslands.
     
  17. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,934
    This game is very different in gameplay, compared to the previous succession games you have done and shows, that it is worth to 'fine tune' the culture victory for more peaceful 'builder civers'. :goodjob:

    Thank you all for your input in improving the culture victory in CCM2. :)

    Yes, I have thought of this and it means, that the building opera house must appear later with the tech 'Napoleonic Age', when monasteries are going obsolete. Monasteries shouldn´t go obsolete more early, as the the government 'Theocracy' shouldn´t be further weakened and around the Napoleonic Age was also the age of the great supression of monasteries in Europe (Edict on Idle Institutions issued by Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor in 1780, Declaration of the Assembly in France on 2 November 1789, that the property of the Church was “at the disposal of the nation and the German mediatization - as the major territorial restructuring that took place between 1802 and 1814 in Germany and the surrounding region under the pressure of Napoleon Bonaparte's France, included a mass secularization of Catholic Church properties - prominently targeting monasteries as well as other Catholic Church properties).

    Dwarven Zerker, your post made me rethinking this problem again. :) I found an arguement to switch the appearance of opera houses from the tech 'Free Artistry' to the tech 'Napoleonic Age'. I must change the focus of opera houses from their first appearance in 1637 to the building of some of their most prominent exampels (like the Teatro La Scala in Milan, that was inaugurated on 3 August 1778) and rewrite some parts of the civilopedia about it.

    So with the next update of the biq, the opera house will come with tech 'Napoleonic Age', when the monastery is going obsolete.

    This will become another part of 'fine-tuning' the culture victory. :) Monks will give only 100 culture points (the Great Artists will still give 1000 culture points). I´m not quite sure, if I should remove the 'doubling culture bonus' of the GW 'Great Playhouse'. May be the most proper solution is indeed to remove the doubling-culture bonus from that GW (it still stays very powerful by giving a theater to every city).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  18. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    Trust me, it will get bloody soon enough. We need to acquire several civs to stay competitive at deity.
     
    Dwarven Zerker likes this.
  19. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,939
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I need a swap
     
  20. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    17,861
    ROSTER:
    LKendter (up)
    Jersey Joe
    Greebley
    Elephantium (on deck)
     

Share This Page