LK165 - CCM, Deity, Space Race, Arabia

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    We still have 76 War Weariness Points (WWP) from fighting Spain. They will be at zero at about the same time our peace treaty with Spain has been in effect 20 years. If we declare war on the Maghreb right now the extra WWP will put us back to about the same level we were at when we made peace.with Spain. I am not sure about the mechanics. I believe that after the initial bump in WWP they should only go up slowly since we will lose Spainish WWP every turn mitigating the Maghreb WWP we gain.

    Does anyone know if when the AI has relocated their Palace if the settler clock starts over, or if it just continues with the old count?
     
  2. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    How do you know the exact amount of WWP?
     
  3. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    It is found in the Civ3Multitool - SaveGame Modifier - Diplomacy tab
     
  4. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    If we haven't been at war with Magreb before, there should be no war weariness until we earn it.

    It after 20 turns of peace with Spain we should have ships with units waiting outside the borders for war. Spying on unit location should be really cheap with Spain having so few units (few hundred maybe?), so we can see if they have a settler and where it is before hand if that is a concern. It would also give a hint of what size force we need to take their city.
     
  5. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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  6. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I need a swap
     
  7. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    This is an interesting question, but as far as I know, until now nobody had a closer look to the consequences for the number of turns needed for autoproducing a new settler when an AI civ has lost its capital and therefore in CCM a new palace SW is autobuilt in another city.
     
  8. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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  9. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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  10. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    I was noticing Spanish treasure fleet gives us dockyards even if a city is not coastal. That means until it retires it is worth working sea tiles. I mention this because Seoul was missing out on half its possible shields by skipping the sea tiles (it is all grassland otherwise).
     
  11. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Played some turns and will play some more today. Not sure if I can finish today or not.

    So far the only news of interest is bad. Our one exploring boat was sunk by a Privateer. Will likely rush a replacement in city on continent.
     
  12. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    We have towns that are starving that are trying to generate shields. That is not optimal. Calculating shields comea after starvation so any set are lost. It is instead better to put the units entirely on scientists (or taxmen) which comes before starvation. This gives a big boost to science from starving captured cities.

    Make some trades for older tech. Decide to trade for Bastion Fortifications because we can afford it and no 2-fer is possible - it is the only tech we can work on. It costs 270 gpt from England. We haven't caught up in tech as Absolutism is also the only tech possible, and advanced civs have it. It is 7 turns.

    I also decide on 20% lux. We can't work all squares at 10% in some core cities.

    Switch Palma to an explorer. I think losing you Palace does reset your Settler BTW. The Explorer is in case I am wrong.

    IBT: Our boat exploring the other continent is sunk by a Privateer. Ugh, I hope we have a replacement nearby.

    Our Explorers are kicked out of Nubia. Note: One can use the strategy of walking the border between two civs, where you always switch whose land you are in. I will be trying this on the US/Nubia border

    1690 AD: But town near spain on Galleon. Will rush it at some point so we can explore.

    1695 AD: Boats nearby to load but it is 4 less turns away than we have peace so will wait a little bit.

    1700 AD: Build road to closest point of to Casablanca.
    Been building Eastern Merc in Mooville because some of our cities are lacking 2 defenders.

    IBT: Made an error on the Explorers and we get booted. Ugh.

    1705 AD: Our boat toward Spain is launched.

    1710 AD: Our lack of Saltpeter is getting expensive: 215 gpt. Once at war, we should continue the Magreb war until we grab the Saltpeter (near their capital).

    1715 AD: Def 5 Eastern Musketeer are near Magreb so will consider war soon.

    1720 AD: Decide to wait for reinforcements that are nearly there before war.
    We can now run at 10% lux (until WW kicks in) with only 2 cities still needing happiness buildings. Decide to go with that.
    We get Absolutism. All advanced AI have all 3 tech we can learn with no 2-fer possible. Max science is 8 turns on Mil Tradition - which we don't have to avoid this game. That will give us
    4 vet cities along with the great palace.

    We now can build Hussars.

    1725 AD: Declare war. We can reach Casablanca this first turn. One retreat and we capture the city gaining 49xx gold. Gain a Monk killing a Xbow unit.

    IBT: Lose the Pike on our Silver

    1730 AD: We capture Tangier and Leptus Magna for over 8000 gold each, losing one Cuirassier on each city.

    Our settler met a fairly large stack that has an emigrant, but we might lose it if they attack.

    Our Lawyer went Elite on its very first attack.

    IBT: We do lose our settler. Unfortunately the emigrant was already on the settler spot, otherwise the Grenadiers might not have attacked.

    1735 AD: We kill advancing units and gain a leader. Initially I was thinking of the Great Palace at Wonsan so moved injured units toward it (see notes below)

    Notes:
    I bought plans from Spain so we can see all units until the next turn. They do not have a settler (what I expected). Next player should see what they have before hitting enter. Boats with units is right outside their border. We still have a few turns of peace left.

    To decide: Leader is at Wonsan. What do we want to do?
    1) Rush University at Wonsan
    2) Rush Great Palace at Wonsan.
    3) We can buy Mil Tradition this turn for 4075 gold + coal from England. If we do this we
    can rush mil academy in Wonsan and upgrade next turn doing both. If we do this we may want Cuirassier units 5 or less away from Wonsan so we can upgrade next turn. I think a few can get closer.
    4) Some other plan I did not think of

    Initially I was planning on 2 - It would really help the war effort to be able to upgrade the Cuirassier to Hussars. A place to heal and attack 6 would be a real boon.

    I then decided we have too few Veteran units being built, and should continue to build the Great Palace at Bagdad. That left me with 1) rushing a university at Wonsan, but then 3) occurred to me after that as a way to do both. I find 3) tempting but maybe we should have Iron Horse Saloon build the academy for max vet units.

    So I left it for the next player to use the leader. If the team prefers 2) or 3) we can still do that,
    but my current vote is 1) - but also buy tech right away and start academy in Iron Horse Saloon.

    I did not build a lot of units. I think it more important to get our science up. Next player may need to build more.

    We could buy all 3 tech with what we have now from England. We should also discuss if we wish to buy any. I think buying Mil Trad is worthwhile to start the academy in Wonsan or Iron Horse Saloon.

    The vulnerable Sassanid is because I didn't want an injured unit to retreat. It is expected to die.
    LK165_AD1735a.png
    LK165_AD1735b.png
     

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  13. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Germany is a better source for the deal. We can get the tech for 3950 + iron. I didn’t fully haggle, so it is probably a little bit cheaper.
    We can rush Military Academy in Wonsan. I agree that this game has no reason to delay it.
    After that MT and < 3960 gets enlightenment from Spain.
    Research can begin on democracy, and we can revolt to our final government. Democracy gives migrant workers for 10 shields giving a 25% shield boost. It opens up another city for barracks with army HQ. It opens up Capitol for yet another barracks and the FP effect. A previous game I documented how powerful that was. IIRC 100+ shields were gained after it being built. The last goodie is constitution giving a free happy face in every city. After that, we are only 4 techs from the all-important railroads.

    Rubber still needs to be hooked up. A lot of the more advanced units need it.

    Our main continent still is way too dark. Can we get a couple of explorers out looking at it?

    I agree with still need more defensive units. One of the defenders in Logrono is an enslaver. That should be out looking for more workers. There is an explorer in Seville that needs to be out fog busting.

    It is 2 turns until we can declare war on Spain. Please make sure the explorer is OUTSIDE of their borders. The city must be razed. After that, please abandon Palma. I never intended for us to have any cities on the other main land mass. With at least 3 civs there, it is a major landmass.

    ROSTER:

    LKendter (on deck)
    Jersey Joe
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    Greebley (swapped)

    Restrictions:
    You must choose governments: Republic and Democracy. To answer JJ question: Yes, we can delay democracy a few turns if needed due to GA or critical wonder race.
    Continents map: Can't take out a civ on another continent. Okay to RAZE cities from a civ that was on OUR landmass anywhere. Okay to claim a small island for resources.
     
  14. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I am against building either the Great Palace or the Military Academy in Wonsan. Wonsan will never generate many shields. Mekka has the potential to produce more than 50 shields before multiplier buildings and should get one. I would put the Great Place in Mekka since it also reduces corruption.. Another choice is Cheju, which has the potential to produce more than 44 shields before multiplier buildings and should get the other building. If we trade for Military Tradition this turn Cheju can swap from building an Observatory to the Military Academy.

    Meku should be working the Mined Silver not a hill without a mine.

    Why are we not staving Tangiers and Madrid?
     
  15. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Good point on shields. Rush university in Wonsan. Cheju has good long term potential, but it is still far away.

    Our best shield cities are this time are:
    Mooville (barracks)
    Iron Horse (56 shields, put military academy here)
    Bagdad (building Great Palace)
    Surf City (will need to build dockyards again. Put something from democracy here)
    Uruk (Put something from democracy here. Multiple forest to still use).
    Ellipi (Put something from democracy here)
     
  16. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    How about don't use the leader this turn to rush the Great Palace in Mekka next turn. We have few elite units so another leader might take time. That would give us upgrade in a city that will one day be worth Vet units.
     
  17. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I don't like Mekka. Going to be awhile before generating much in shields. I prefer the barracks in cities with most buildings done, and nice shield count.
     
  18. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  19. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I've got it.
     
  20. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    So I don't think we came to a consensus but the options for the leader were:
    1) University in Wonsan, Vet units in our best cities (likely Iron Horse and Bagdad)
    2) Great Palace in Mekka (if so get workers to improve and maybe rush buildings) for war healing and upgrades.

    Elephantium, Maybe you can be the deciding vote so go for the one you think is better.

    There was agreement on:
    Buy Mil Trad right away as set iron horse saloon to Mil Academy.
     

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