LK165 - CCM, Deity, Space Race, Arabia

Hmm, there are multiple examples of this.

Electronics:
Carrier WWII, 5 move upgrades to Carrier, 3 move
Anti-Aircraft Cruiser, 7 move upgrades to Guided Missile Cruiser, 7 move.
Pocketbattleship, 6 move upgrades to Guided Missile Cruiser, 7 move.
Dreadnought WWII, 6 move upgrades to Guided Missile Cruiser

Computers:
I see a County Class DG, 8 move

But Destroyer (WWII), 8 move upgrades to Lupo Class (frigate), 7 move

Ballistic Missiles:
Battleship, 6 move upgrades to Guided Missile Cruiser, 7 move
Cruiser, 7 move also upgrades to Guided Missile Cruiser

Plastics:
Destroyer (WWII), 8 move upgrades to Skoryy class, 8 move...but that "upgrades" to Lupo class, 7 move :(

Most of this makes sense, but the carrier and Destroyer -> Frigate upgrades seem like a step back. We did skip a step in the upgrade chain.

Full stats (name, attack.defense.move, bombard/rate of fire values):
Destroyer WWII 5.5.8 (8/1)
Skoryy Class 6.5.8 (9/1), AA 1
Lupo Class 5.5.7 (7/1), AA 2
 
Elephantium, without having looked into the biq, at least with the carriers you have overseen something very important about the carriers:

The Carrier WW II has normal movement, but the more advanced carriers have "all terrain as roads" movement (ATR). Therefore 3 moves ATR are 9 MV normal (including coastal terrain, that otherwise would hold a movement handicap for carriers). ATR movement for more modern carriers was used to limit the number of their possible blitz attacks for their increased long range bombardment (in addition to the aircraft based on that carrier). Each bombardment reduces the movement of the carriers by 1 MV point. If the movement is set to 9 MV, the carrier would be able to perform 9 long range bombardments a turn and I think three is more adequate for them.

WW 2 destroyers and the later Skoryy Class mostly had a speed of 35 kn (and more), while the frigates of the Lupo Class were slower (here please have a look into the civilopedia description), but those frigates had a better AA value than the WW 2 destroyers and this mostly is more important in the later game.

Edit: When having a look into the biq, the attack and bombardment values of the Lupo class can be increased.

And it seems, that in some cases the old problem appeared again, mixing up upgrade and obsolescence.

Modern carrier.jpg
 
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Well in this case we want to hunt down the Egyptian settler, but because we got Computers, it will take longer. It is not the individual ship in this case but all build-able ships are slower than the Destroyer we had started building. We have faster ships (carriers) half way across the world from our auto-built ships but that won't help.
 
We are not at war with Egypt. They have 1 city next to our borders, to capture that city (and preferably raze it) would trigger any MPPs Egypt signed and we might lose a luxury resource we are trading for.
 
I suspect Greebley meant Inca.
 
It was Egypt. I hunted down the settler and destroyed it so I could take the last city. The AI had already destroyed their last city once (leaving the settler so I had to reload and save it) and I was worried they might do it again.

The weren't advanced enough to have MPP.

I have 2 more turns to finish - as usual I found things for the bulldozers to do, so I am moving them. I prefer all border squares railed. I also placed 5-6 more towns. Will try to finish during the week.
 
Preturn: Notice there is a Great Wonder we are not building. Adjust some builds to add culture especially those on wealth.
We also have unfilled city-worthy land in Jungle terrain. I build roads and start using shift-w to auto-clear all wetlands. The bulldozers will stop automatically when done. It is the one automation I like using. We do not need it but I feel like doing something. More Culture if nothing else.
I do one lawyer attack and some Partisan attacks.
Brazil declares war on us. I wanted their map but it didn't work out well.
Edit: Went to next turn and noticed Britain had taken out the last Egyptian city when they have a settler. I reloaded this turn and took out the British stack to save the city. Also rushed boats to go after the Egyptian Settler which I found by stealing Egypt's plans. It was in an inconvenient location, but we will get there eventually. Lost 3 Partisans and gained one. Got 3 Great Artists.

IBT:
Aztecs are destroyed by lowlands
Japanese are destroyed by Scandinavians.
Scandinavia declares war on the British.
We build Nuclear plant in Ellipi so it can build Big Airlift in 4 instead of 5. Has 280 shields.

1964 AD: Cleared Swamp and placed a few cities to fill. Started to upgrade them. Computers in 1 so some cities become taxmen instead of science.
IBT: Egypt feeling cocky after the last turn reprieve declares war on the Greeks, little knowing the ships converging on the settler.
We get computers. We start NASA in surf city as it gives a bonus to science and that is a city with both shields and science if/when we can't do 4 turns with just scientists.
Spot more Inca units.

1965 AD: Kill some injured British units from the war vs the Vikings. Get a 5th artist, but I have also been using some. Was able to add two more towns and then hit the limit. The town that failed was max size 8 so not really an issue. The rest were all larger areas.
Lose a Tank to an Incan.

IBT: Sub appears and sinks a Lux Liner.

1966 AD: Was able to place 2 towns. Fighting must be fierce out there. Stole the Lowlands map. The other continent had a huge inland sea that could be connected to the ocean with a single city.

IBT: South America is destroyed by the Greeks.

1967 AD: Some units in the line of Adventurers are on unrailed squares so I start railing them. More taxmen, apollo still in 2.
LK165_AD1967a.png


LK165_AD1967b.png


LK165_AD1967c.png

IBT: Austria-Hungary kills Russians. Scandinavia and Mongols at war.
Lowlands and Greek are fighting

1968 AD: Lowlands won't talk to us.
We have boats near Egypt's boat caravan and should be able to take it out next turn.

1969 AD: Declare war on Egypt. Our boats sink their 3 boat Caravan. Take their capital losing 1 Partisan.
LK165_AD1969c.png


Start improving their Jungle/Marsh city. Also use a Great Artist.
Lowlands will talk so I go for straight up peace.

LK165_AD1969b.png

1970 AD: I got curious about exposing an enemy spy so I tried with Rome. They declared war. Didn't think that action was 'warlike' but I guess it is.

1971 AD: Been building Adventurers instead of wealth and this completes replacement of the Partisans sooner. Disband some units like regular infantry and adventurers that are extra.
I am also trying an experiment - landing on the other continent to put in an air base to allow us to explore farther out.
LK165_AD1971.png

1972 AD: Finish building an Airport on the far continent at end of turn. Border is pretty much railed now.

1973 AD: We research Plastic. We finally have achieved Pink Plastic Flamingo Lawn Ornaments.
LK165_AD1973b.png

Since I am creating Adventurers for disband, I realize another use of bulldozers is to increase shields above 50. I do this with some towns in the 40's.
Also start on making the desert at least roaded. I notice I missed one square near the Tundra so I sent our final worker to road it. I also left open the 'Mongol Corridor which existed before I started. I thought I spotted another but could not find it. There multiple squares without rails.
A lot of adventurers, infantry rush buildings that are still being built. Use several of our settlers for towns less than size 9.
For trades we have a new best friend:
LK165_AD1973a.png


Notes (turn 360):
We have one landing/airport on the far continent to base planes from. We could set up a second spot more to the west of the same desert.
There is a set of boats heading north with a liner and settlers for a second spot. Any place near black squares could be filled.
English and Vikings have been fighting
LK165_AD1973c.png
 

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The reason we didn’t build Great Airlift was I agreed with JJ that we didn’t need airbases in every city. I addition, we lost a great pre-build with an airport.
I didn’t bother with National SSN due to the sub bug.

Glad to see a few more bars filled in for the space race.

ROSTER:
Make sure to escape the space race screen. I took another look after saving the game, and it locked up again.

LKendter (swapped)
Jersey Joe (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Greebley
 
Ya the space screen locked up mid-turn when I once forgot. That is the worst case as I had to redo the whole IBT.

I went for those wonders in part to show what the wonders looked like (someone asked for screens of them) - otherwise I agree it is not necessary useful (Though it does allow us many airports if we want to airlift anything).
 
1973 AD: We research Plastic. We finally have achieved Pink Plastic Flamingo Lawn Ornaments.
:D

Greebley, that is a great report and very nice screenshots. :thumbsup: Seeing, that the succession game in turn 360 is near to achieving a space victory in a higher difficulty level shows, that the demands in the CCM threads to add 40 additional turns for such a victory are not necessary. 500 turns is more than enough.

Ya the space screen locked up mid-turn when I once forgot. That is the worst case as I had to redo the whole IBT.

Yes, especially when playing on big maps, the space screen in CCM unfortunately is somewhat fragile. It is a good idea to do a save before entering that screen.
 
Seeing, that the succession game in turn 360 is near to achieving a space victory in a higher difficulty level shows, that the demands in the CCM threads to add 40 additional turns for such a victory are not necessary. 500 turns is more than enough.
Higher levels speed UP the tech pace with a ton of trading. If I have to self-research most of the techs at low levels, I wonder how long it would take.
 
We could do four wars, one for each of us: Britain, Australia, Scandinavia, Mongols.

Or maybe try to take out the Lowlands? They're strong enough to put up a decent fight, and the logistics mean we couldn't one-turn punch them like the civs on our continent. I know we had a rule against taking out civs from the other continent...but I'm not sure how strict that was intended to be. There's a big difference between "Don't even start a war with an overseas civ" and "just don't wipe out their last city." LK, what do you think?
 
I know we had a rule against taking out civs from the other continent...but I'm not sure how strict that was intended to be. There's a big difference between "Don't even start a war with an overseas civ" and "just don't wipe out their last city." LK, what do you think?
The goal of that rule was to stay of the other continent as much as possible. The original wording wasn't the best, but the intent was no mega wars with the other land mass.
 
I think there are enough civs on our continent left. No need for lowland war

BTW the bases for bombers to scout the other continent was just an idea I had. When we get satellites we will see it all. If the next player doesn't like it we can send the units back. Before satellites long range U2 should be able to better target the black areas with the bases - I think we have two of them [Edit: 2 U2]
 
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If you want to play with the Modern weapons, just take Greebley's saved game and have at it. :yup: I figure that except for the house boat bug you can claim the rest of our land mass in 4 or 5 turns. We have enough gold that over a 100 cities can build a Tank (Type 59) a turn for at least 4 turns. You could have all other cities build Tanks, but having combat settlers will speed up movement. The real limits in how quickly you could capture the land is we only have 96 bulldozers, not many targets for Lawyers, and no settlers to start with.

As for my plans:;)
I have all cities building wealth. A turn takes less than 20 minutes. I am about to learn about Satellites and complete 2 more pieces of the Mars Mission. I figure Elephantium should be able to win the game.

I am waiting for a UN Vote so we can "fork the game and have the option having both a Diplomatic victory and a Space Race Victory.

I upgraded our Partisans to Mujahideen. Most Partisans cost 0 gold to upgrade, but Elite Partisans cost 270 gold to upgrade.

Question for Civinator: Why do Peacekeepers get a 226 tile range :wow: for Airdrops while all other Paratroopers are limited to at most 18 tiles? :confused: We should be using the same airplanes for the drops. :mischief: Is the UN conspiring against us by having the deep state :espionage: limit the range of our planes?:shifty:
 
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