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LK165 - CCM, Deity, Space Race, Arabia

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I really like that idea. It hurts a bit, but it solves the debate monarchy / republic debate. Forget monarchy and the wonder.


    Do we want to try for the Great Library.


    I don't know when, but at some point we need to get a decent coastal city up. We want to meet some of the civs on the other land masses. I would love to find a rich, backwards civs.
     
  2. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Southwest of our Capital, on a hill we get fish + Big game and hills+mountains. Looks like a good spot for a very productive city.
    Other, not so good IMHO choices:
    Korea has 1 coastal city, but it will require us to plant forests to have a decent amount amount of shields.
    East of us is a spot that could get us another Horse and 1 Pearl, but again it will require planted forests.

    Pie in the Sky thought. :crazyeye: We are the first to learn Literature. This gives us a Great Scientist and we Rush the Great Library. We stop all research until we leave the era of Ancient Empires. :lol:
     
  3. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Pre-turn, getting organized.

    900BC, game turn 71.
    Arabia is a Despotism.
    Sliders are 8.0.2, researching Lit in 29 turns at +16gpt.
    We have 80 gold.

    Babylon, size 8, not growing, 12spt, building Assyrian Spearman in 2.
    Bagdad (not Baghdad), size 3, grows in 4, 3spt, building Temple in 2. Can work a riverside grass to get an extra gold with no change in shields.
    Mooville (What is this, Wisconsin?), size 4, grows in 2, 7spt, building Siege Workshop in 4. May pick up another shield on growth, depending on corruption (7% according to CivAssist).
    Iron Horse Saloon (What is this, the Old West?), size 1, grows in 5, 2spt, building Walls in 10. Can work Wheat to grow in 4 -- costing 1 spt

    We have Elephants, Iron, and Silver hooked up. Horses will be connected in 9 turns.

    Our military consists of 1 Bowman (holding the) Bagdad, 6 Enkidu Warriors (mostly exploring), 9 Assyrian Spearmen, and 1 Enslaver. We also have 1 Worker, 5 Assyrian Workers, and 1 foreign worker.

    Our native worker stacks are covered, but the foreign worker is enslaver bait.

    We can buy Code of Laws for everything we have, but we can't quite afford Construction yet. We can sell various techs, but the prospective buyers are broke.

    Questions:

    1. Keep to the min run on Lit? We can research it in 20 turns @ 60% (-7gpt for now)
    2. Start building Assyrian Swordsmen to build up a force to invade Korea? Or do we need a few more Spears first?
    3. Any objections to switching Iron Horse Saloon to Forge instead of Walls?
    4. I sketched out a dotmap with some potential sites. Thoughts on our next city?
    dotmap.png
     
  4. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    1 - Stick with min research on literature. There is no guarantee we can get enough cash to keep deficit research going.

    2 - We are still in the peaceful building stage with a few sites to grab. I'm not in a rush for war #1. In addition, no cities have walls yet.

    3 - Don't care either way.

    4 - Purple dot to close to Seville. I don't want to fight a culture war this soon.
    Maybe later, but blue to far away for now.
    Orange has decent production with all those hills.
    Red too close to orange.


    Don't forget the plan to possible avoid our early wonder. It all depends how fast we get republic.
     
  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Heh, pink is also too close to red :) If we build the orange dot, we might even consider moving the pink dot SE, next to the Pearls. Or move all three dots 1SE to reduce overlaps (if we want three cities in that area).

    JJ mentioned a spot SW of the capital -- another spot to consider.

    I want to put a city north of Babylon for the sake of spacing, but the empty grassland isn't really worth it. Lots of better spots at this stage of the game.
     
  6. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    :D
     
  7. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Jersey Joe, CCM benefits a lot from the observations by your sharp eyes (of course by the other players of the succession games, too). :)
     
  8. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Lee's Comment is the reason I propose the port city.
    I agree with the above. Why should the next city we build not be a port city so we can start searching the seas for more continents and civs?
    Here is the spot I mentioned:

    With a Port it will be able to grow to size 20+ and produce about 20 base shields before having a Dockyard or rails.

    Elephantium's Orange spot has decent production potential and several "wet tiles" for extra commerce.
     
  9. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Here's an updated dotmap for the SE region:

    dotmap.png

    Orange, yellow, and green are the same as previous. Pink is now white. I've added alternate sites for each spot.

    Some numbers:

    Red-orange: 4 BGs, 12 riverside.
    Yellow-orange: 4 BGs, 13 riverside.

    White: 3 BGs, 12 riverside.
    Gray: 2 BGs, 9 riverside, 1 forest.

    Yellow: 1 BG, 6 coastal, 5 forest.
    Tan: 2 BGs, 8 coastal, 5 forest.

    Dark green: 3 BGs, 7 riverside, 2 forests, 4 coastal. No fish but quicker access to hardwood (enables Ballista Shop).
    Light green: 3 BGs, 7 riverside, 1 forest, 6 coastal. Fish.

    Red: 2 riverside (tundra), 4 hills, 5 coastal, 2 riverside. Game and fish!

    Looking at all this, I'm leaning towards red-orange, white, tan, and light green as the better set of spots here. I'd also lean towards white or green as our first coastal city -- more commerce than red.
     
  10. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Looking at the picture: please wake up spear to cover workers.


    I'm more concerned about shields from our first coastal city. I would vote for JJ's dot next.

    For cities: Yellow claiming the hardwood and in range of the fish for bonus food after despotism.

    Orange next to all the hills. A single tile of overlap can be accepted. It should have decent production with 2 hills and 3 mountains.

    Grey is the better with at least one forest. That city is weak for production.

    Tan is the better spot for the peat tile. Don't forget that comes with bonus shields.


    For being early game there has been a lot of debate already. I can tell this isn't a AW game. Those have been the one spot we can see that is worth it.
     
  11. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Good catch, will do.

    We could push gray one more tile for 1 BG and 2 forests...something to consider.

    Red dot will be great in 100 turns, but it's pretty bad until the borders pop -- no food. I think we'll get more in the next 25 turns from green. @Greebley, any thoughts? I'd like to make sure everyone has a chance to weigh in.
     
  12. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    For that spot I want YELLOW. I want that fish. Once in republic, and a harbor, it will be a nice source of excess food.
     
  13. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Yellow dot is between the big game and peat. I'm talking about the light green dot.

     
  14. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    With the comments so far I've changed my mind. I've marked P1 on this map. Black squares show my preferred sites.

     
  15. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I agree with 3 of Lee's chosen city spots and building P1 as our next city. Grey is fine where it is at but it might be a little bit better moved 1 east to get the Kelp (extra shield) but it is so shield poor in either location we should not make it any kind of Priority to build.
    P1 has the potential to be a better production city than Axum was last game and should produce more shields than the Red Dot site I proposed.
     
  16. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    LK, I'm on board with your updated dotmap. We'll probably need to revisit settling order after the next city; I doubt that the AI is going to leave the area empty for 80 more turns!

    Another thought on this -- WDYT about building Ishtar Gate right away after we're a Republic? It will be obsolete very quickly, but it'll still kick off our GA.


    EDIT:

    We need a plan B. Spain settled Valencia 1NW of the light green dot! :cry:

    It was right after we moved our settler into place, too :mad:

    I've attached my save for the current turn.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  17. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Was on vacation for longer than I thought, but back now. Think we need boats asap so definitely the coastal city. It leads to cheaper tech if we can meet more civs.

    Agree on skipping Monarchy. Do we know if we can build our special wonder if it is retired[edit: obsolete]? I would think it would still get us the GA whenever we build it - we just don't get the city benefits.
     
  18. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I did a slightly revised dot map. I consider Valencia as our city just temporarily in Spain's care.
    Of course we could declare war and settle in place. I am not in favor a taking this choice.


    Red Dot and Orange Dot are as previously placed.
    I moved white to get the Hardwood. Unfortunately, that requires settling on the Big Game. Also, when we conquer Korea we will get a Hardwood Resource. So it might not be important to get one immediately.

    I threw in pink just to see what it looks like. It settles on a bonus grass, but offsets the loss of that shield with getting Kelp. Neither Pink Dot or the Grey Dot it is replacing would produce many shields and building a city there should be deferred

    If we do not want Hardwood immediately, we could settle the spot of the previous White Dot and get Big Game + Peat and then settle Orange Dot.

    My preference is to either build on Orange Dot with our current settler and get Red Dot with the next settler, or build Red Dot first and Orange Dot second. I am not sure which method gets the 2 cities built the quickest.
     
  19. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Please *don't* edit in a save. I didn't even realize it was there until I was trying to figure out where JJ got the picture from.

    I hope those are worker stacks up north underneath the spears. We aren't ready to fight that number of troops.

    White dot is bad. It takes away the forest animals, our only source of food for that city. My vote is to concede hardwood for the moment, and build blue dot. Drop a flag first to get the extra shields from the peat tile. This is the fastest spot for the settler pair to walk to.

     
  20. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    There are Warriors under the Spears no workers there :sad:

    I vote for a build on Lee's Blue Dot. :thumbsup:

    Why are we not building Horsemen in Babylon?
     

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