LK165 - CCM, Deity, Space Race, Arabia

[LKendter]

From the screenshots looks like next city should be just NE of the horses to also get wheat.

There is a debate of putting it closer to the wheat to get a spare iron for trade bait.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Just SW of the wheat gets iron +wheat+horses, other than needing an aqueduct, given the trade possibilities, I think you found a better spot.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Something to think about:
Ishtar Gate goes obsolete when we learn Dark Ages (the golden age should continue on for a full 25 turns).
Great Library goes obsolete when we learn Chivalry.

What if we use the Golden Age from the Ishtar Gate to help build the Great Library (extra shields). If we build Great Library in Babylon it would also benefit from the extra 25% shields from Ishtar Gate.

 

[Elephantium]

I'd be ok with that if the timing works out. I was thinking we could avoid a despotic GA by revolting to City State ASAP, but that doesn't really let us beeline for the Great Library.

We might have to accept a despotic GA to get the GLib at all. Tough call.

 

[LKendter]

Revolt to monarchy when possible to avoid tile penalty? We might get through the full 25 turns of GA before republic arrives.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Continuation from 1740 BC:
IBT:
Scout killed by Invisible Enemy (0, 1).

1700 - 1420 BC: Workers work

1380 BC:
This might be but,
Trade Elephants +506 gold to Spain for Trade.
Send Trade plus 178 gold to Germany for Mathematics.
Send Trade to Maghreb for 16 gold and 9 gpt.

1340 - 1140 BC: Workers

IBT: Near Turkish territory, Warrior fights off Invisible enemy.

1100 BC: Workers

IBT: Near Turkish territory, Warrior fights off Invisible enemy.

1060 BC: Workers

1020 BC:

Give Germany 418 Gold and 8 gpt in exchange for Mysticism.
Trade Mysticism +7 gpt to Maghreb for Riding.
980 -940 BC: Workers

900 BC:

Near Bagdad, Enslaver captures Korean Warrior (1, 1).

Our Warriors near Turkey pillage the roads just built by Turkish Workers. However, we did not receive any gold for the effort. .

Notes:

• I avoided trading with Korea because they are a likely first target. Besides which, Korea and Turkey never had any gold.
• Korea may have a stack of Warriors and Spearmen in there territory northwest of Bagdad.
• Since it was founded on a Bonus Grass Square, I was expecting Iron Horse Saloon to have 2 Shields in the City Center Square. Our despotic government must be preventing it.
  
• We lack the Republic’s prerequisite tech of Construction. It was very expensive when I tried to trade for it before making the trades I did in 1020 BC.

 

[Elephantium]

Trade Elephants +506 gold to Spain for Trade.

Nooo!

Actually, that makes me wonder:

If you didn't know Trade, how did you Trade for Trade?

Send Trade plus 178 gold to Germany for Mathematics.

Well, at least the Mathematics work out

Also, I've got it.

 

[LKendter]

I am guessing 40 turns to literature.

The big debate is when we build our special wonder. I really don’t want a despotic GA. However, republic is still a long time away. Are we close to monarchy? I would gladly revolt to that and start our special wonder.



ROSTER:

LKendter
Jersey Joe
Elephantium (up and already got it)
Greebley (on deck)

Restrictions:
You must choose governments: Republic and Democracy.
Continents map: Can't take out a civ on another continent. Okay to claim a small island for resources.

There is still a debate on further restrictions.

 

[LKendter]

@Elephantium - if you can get Monarchy, please revolt and start our special wonder. Once we start, we will have to accept a bunch of regular units out of other cities.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Revolt to monarchy when possible to avoid tile penalty? We might get through the full 25 turns of GA before republic arrives.

We are missing the prerequisite tech Code of Laws to be able to trade for Monarchy. When I traded for Mysticism, I could have traded for Code of Laws but it was slightly more expensive (418 Gold and 9 gpt).
A trade for either Republic or Monarchy will cost about the same. I favor going for Republic and postponing Monarchy till later.

 

[Jersey Joe]

opps forgot to post screenshot
Our Empire 900BC

 

[Elephantium]

A quick check shows that Incas will sell us CoL for 30gpt + 80 gold, but "It can't be done" if I ask about Construction. So -- I might be able to swing Monarchy during my set, but I'm doubtful about Republic.

 

[Jersey Joe]

The Hanging Gardens is being built, so Construction might not be for sale until the Wonder is built.

<snip>

Restrictions:
You must choose governments: Republic and Democracy.
Continents map: Can't take out a civ on another continent. Okay to claim a small island for resources.

There is still a debate on further restrictions.

Is not revolting into Monarchy a violation of the restrictions? If we violate this restiction, what is to stop us from taking out civs on other land masses?

 

[LKendter]

Is not revolting into Monarchy a violation of the restrictions? If we violate this restriction, what is to stop us from taking out civs on other land masses?

To be honest, it is hard to call. My intent was to make sure we revolt to republic when available.

I never anticipated getting stuck with an civ with this early of a GA. I'll open up the question to the group for an opinion.
Hopefully we can bypass the issue and get republic.

 

[Elephantium]

I'm perfectly comfortable using any and all governments. The letter of the rule is just that we use both Rep and Dem. The spirit of the rule, IMO, is to force us off our usual "win by Domination shortly after we learn Great War Experience" path.

With that in mind, I don't have any problems with switching to Monarchy before we learn Republic.

And LK is right; a Despotic GA is a terrible waste.

 

[Arexander]

lurker's comment: I'm pretty sure the city tile only adds the extra gold from the tile you plant it on, so any extra food or shields provided by resources (or BG in this case) under a city are wasted. Besides, the tile penalty only applies to anything above 2, so going from 1 shield to 2 should still happen.

 

[Jersey Joe]

lurker's comment: I'm pretty sure the city tile only adds the extra gold from the tile you plant it on, so any extra food or shields provided by resources (or BG in this case) under a city are wasted. Besides, the tile penalty only applies to anything above 2, so going from 1 shield to 2 should still happen.

In general, I agree with you about cities getting only 1 shield. However, last game we had several cities (built on plains, hills, and grassland that had 2 shields in the city center. Maybe it is tied into motorized settlers.
I just loaded up LK164 and built 2 towns on bonus grass squares and they did not get the extra shield. It is not a big deal, just a curiosity.

 

[Civinator]

In general, I agree with you about cities getting only 1 shield. However, last game we had several cities (built on plains, hills, and grassland that had 2 shields in the city center.

Your last civ Korea had the industrious trait.

 

[Jersey Joe]

To be honest, it is hard to call. My intent was to make sure we revolt to republic when available.

I never anticipated getting stuck with an civ with this early of a GA. I'll open up the question to the group for an opinion.
Hopefully we can bypass the issue and get republic.

My personal preference would be to ignore Ishtar Gate for a GA and have a later GA by getting the appropriate Wonders.

I favor getting Republic first. I might only about 10 turns longer than when we could get Monarchy and we wold not have to change governments a second time this early in the game.

Ballpark numbers:
Construction will cost about 10% more than Trade did so it will take Elephants + 560 gold.
Code of Laws will cost about about 418 + 9 gpt
Monarchy = Republic in number of beakers required so they should cost about the same (30% more than Construction). Which is around 725-775 gold or 25 turns to accumulate..

It looks to me like Construction + Republic will cost about 150 gold more than Code of Laws + Monarchy.
So it will take about 8-10 turns to get the extra 150 gold to get Republic before Monarchy.
If we get Monarchy first it might take more than an additional 20 turns to accumulate enough gold to acquire both Construction and Republic.

In any event, we will be close to learning Literature (29 turns after 900 BC) and have a small chance of being the only ones who know it so we would have a tech worth as much as Code of Laws for trade bait.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Thank you Civinator. That explains the extra shield I noticed.