LK167, Spain, CCM, Conquest victory

Jersey Joe

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I do not recall being able to trade for workers in CCM. Could the FlintLock patch's default option "dont_give_king_names_in_non_regicide_games = true" that has changed how "trading Workers" and "Supply Wagons" work?
 

LKendter

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You could always trade for natural workers.
Slave workers can't be traded for. MapStat still shows workers for sale for France / China, but those can't be bought (slaves).
 
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Jersey Joe

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Continuing 1750 BC: I switch from researching Monarchy in 50 turns to researching Literature due in 16 turns at 70%

IBT: We get messages about building the Siege Workshop and the Desert Fort.
Time to queue up Desert Workshop in Barcelona.

1725 BC: Alcazar de Equo Ferri is founded and begins work on Iberian Flag.

1700 BC- : Workers work. :whipped:

1675 BC: Scout killed by unseen unit. :sad:

FlintLock patch alerts me to Barcelona being about to riot. :thumbsup: I hire a Scientist, in Barcelona, and reduce time to learn Literature from 13 turns to 11 turn.

1650 BC: The Royal Stable presents us with a Chariot.
Madrid Granary → Spearman.
Barcelona switches from Academy to Desert Fort

Enslaver captures Austrian Scout.

IBT: Madrid produces a Supply Shipment.

I1625 BC: I cannot figure not how to lead the supply Shipment into Madrid. :confused: Spearman did not get offered chance to lead Supply Shipment back into Madrid once it left. Charoit was offered chance to lead the Supply Shipment back into Madrid, but the Shipment disappeared when we lead it in and we did not get a payment of 25 gold. :dunno:

Enslaver kills Indo-Chinese Warrior.

IBT: Lowlands want Code of Laws. The Lowlands is on the “Do Not Trade” list :nono: so I tell them “Take your empty threats elsewhere.” The ambassador cowers away annoyed at us. :high5:

1600 BC: Alcazar de Equo Ferri Flag → Siege Workshop.

Trade Naval Warfae to Canada for 38 gold and 1 gpt.
Trade Furs, Camels, 378 gold to Austria-Hungary for Construction
Trade Construction to China for Philosophy.

1575 BC:
Trade furs to USA for 110 gold. Took Washington from annoyed to polite :)

1550 BC: We meet the Greeks and Trade them Naval Warfare for 70 gold.
Warrior killed by Invisible Unit on mountain south of Seoul

1525 BC: Workers work. :coffee:

IBT: Our scout is killed by Invisible Unit.

1500 BC: We meet Australia/Oceania. The are 1 tech (the Republic) ahead of us. Also, they have 6 cities and a settler. :wow:

IBT: USA establish an embassy in our Capital.

1475 BC: Enslaver captures Austrian Scout.

IBT: Maghreb establish an embassy in our Capital.
We have a monopoly on Literature. :rockon: Will wait to after trading to decide what to learn next.

1450 BC:
Cannot get Monarchy for Literature +gold so did not trade Literature and will study Monarchy.
Trade Philosophy to Greece for Elephant Training and 2 gold.
Trade Elephant Training to Arabia for 10 gold and 1 gpt.
Trade Elephant Training to Persia for 10 gold.
Trade Elephant Training to France for 8 gold.

1425 BC- 1375 BC: Workers work. :sleep:

1350 BC:
Trade Literature, Construction and 260 gold to Italy for Monarchy.
Trade Monarchy and 43 gold to Israel for Republic.
Trade Literature to Australia/Oceania for Seafaring and 20 gold.
Trade Construction to Greece for Mounted Archery, 7 gold and 2 gpt.
Sell Literature to Maghreb for 260 gold.
Sell Literature to USA for 243 gold.
Trade Literature to Israel for 45 gold and 9 gpt.
Trade Literature to Austria-Hungary for Coffee and 30 gold.
Sell Furs to Italy for 129 gold.

Our people want to change the form of government. :trouble:

1325 BC: Welcome to the revolution. :hatsoff:
1300 BC: We are now a Monarchy. :woohoo:
Our 2 exploring Transport Ships meet. The will take to long to sail back to a home port. They cannot enter a sea square. To avoid paying their upkeep, I disband them.

1275 BC: Workers work. :hammer:

1250 BC: We just got a new Supply Shipment.
The Supply Shipment and our 4 Enslavers have not moved this turn.

Notes:
  • The Worker Stack just east of Madrid, on the irrigated plain tile, are intended to join the Workers already building a mine in the forests of Madrid. The Speaman guarding the Worker Stack just moved to them from Madrid.
  • Nubia, Korea, Lowlands and Indo-China are on our side of the choke point.
    • They will be our first targets. We want them as weak as possible.
    • Therefore, do not trade with them.
  • I did not check for Trades this turn.
  • Since it appears that the AI learns Religion before Dark Ages, I have us learning Dark Ages. Hopefully when we trade for Dark Ages we can swap it for Religion.
 

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LKendter

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Our tech lead is still great. :thumbsup:
I didn't expect to be a monarchy that quickly.

We have found 18 of the 24 civs. Are the rest on another land mass? Did some get interior spots?

China may have workers for sale. MapStat doesn't say if natural workers or slaves. Please check before next turn.
There is 1 spare fur to trade. Please trade before next turn. Please keep those furs being traded. Furs are the big starting advantage.


ROSTER:
LKendter
Jersey Joe
Elephantium (up)
Greebley (on deck)

There is a natural choke point in Arabella. The follow civs should not be traded with: Nubia, Korea, Lowlands and Indo-China. Let them get weak for our first conquests.

Goal is winning by conquest.
 

Dwarven Zerker

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Awesome start to what looks like an epic game!

The unworthy lurkers (who play at monarch level) humbly request a screenshot. :bowdown:
 

Elephantium

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I've got it.

Plans:

Check for trades with China (and everyone).
Sell Furs to a rich rival. Maybe trade for wine?

Workers E of Madrid will join the current mining stack.

Prepare for war. We currently have 13 Spearmen, 3 Enslavers, and 3 Chariots. We're no threat to Nubia in this state. I'll start building Cataphracts in Madrid and Barcelona -- once the Forges complete, both cities should be able to make 20spt.

How soon are we thinking for that first war? I figure I can only get 7-8 Cataphracts built during my turnset.
 

Civinator

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The new French unit stack has no protection. I'm not sure if it is the Flintlock patch, or something else. Supply units are NOT working.
The Flintlock mod has no negative influence to the supply shipments of CCM 2.5. In your current game there must be happened one of the normal set-up mistakes about activating supply shipments at the start of the game (victory point scoring and/or supply shipments not activated and (/or) may be something screwed up about supply shipments when changing settings in the CCM biq). I cannot have a look into your current save files, as I have installed the files for the development of the next version of CCM on my pc and don´t want a "mix up" in the files of CCM 2.5 and CCM 2.6.

If you play with the Flintlock mod and haven´t disabled the settings about influencing the AI in the config file, as I have warned you, you have weakened the AI civs at least in the use of MGLs, as they should prefer building armies instead of building costly SWs and buildings, but in the settings of CCM 2.5 the "army" is only an additional CCM-artillery unit (this will be very different in the next version of CCM). If the supply shipments were screwed up in the settings of your current game, this will additionally handicap the AI, as the supply shipment units in CCM 2.5 have maintenance costs, but no use for the players if the settings for that unit are not correctly.

I cannot say, if there will be more negative consequences for the AI when playing a "not harmonized" CCM 2.5 with R11, per example when the R11 AI is looking for escort defensive units for a land artillery that is not existing.

Flintlock posted, that the config file can be changed even during a game and you should consider to adjust your config files at least now (in that case all players of the succession game should use the changed new config file when continuing the game).

Even if you are continuing your current game with the current config file for the Flintlock mod and the "screwed up" supply shipments (here no fix in your current game is possible, if this has happened) you will have an interesting game.
 
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LKendter

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I suspect it happened trying to deal with the data skew issue with Flintlock patch and the steam version. Supply shipments got turned off.
I tried to add them back in, but every attempt to load the save causes civ to crash.
At this point we need to accept it, or I start a massive re-rolling for another start. A good chunk of the starts were really screwed for starting space. Look at how tight Arabia is on the map, and I've roll that for myself more than once. My test game for supply units was so bad that city 3 had to go to a mostly jungle spot.
 

Civinator

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At this point we need to accept it, or I start a massive re-rolling for another start.
In that situation I would accept the not fixable problem with the supply shipments, but I would heavily consider to change the config file of R11 for every player to disable the AI settings for land artillery and armies. If you need any help here, please post it.
 

LKendter

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In that situation I would accept the not fixable problem with the supply shipments, but I would heavily consider to change the config file of R11 for every player to disable the AI settings for land artillery and armies. If you need any help here, please post it.

I'm not sure why the land artillery / armies flags are so important? You might have explained before, but I am not sure.
 

Jersey Joe

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At this point we need to accept it, or I start a massive re-rolling for another start. A good chunk of the starts were really screwed for starting space. Look at how tight Arabia is on the map, and I've roll that for myself more than once. My test game for supply units was so bad that city 3 had to go to a mostly jungle spot.
I say lets play on. We are almost past the point were an extra 25 gold will make any difference.
If you play with the Flintlock mod and haven´t disabled the settings about influencing the AI in the config file, as I have warned you, you have weakened the AI civs at least in the use of MGLs, as they should prefer building armies instead of building costly SWs and buildings, but in the settings of CCM 2.5 the "army" is only an additional CCM-artillery unit (this will be very different in the next version of CCM)
I do not see how that could have a major impact on play, I do not recall seeing many AI armies in "vanilla" Conquests. We fish for Great Leaders, does the AI?

Civinator: I do not know if this is another unit not behaving properly, a poorly worded civopedia entry, or a byproduct of the Flintlock patch.
I could not get our Transport ships to enter a sea tile. Also, I see in the .biq file settings that it will sinks in either sea or ocean. Could the setting that: It has no movement handicap for the coast, but the sea and ocean are not highlighted be the reason it can only sail on coastal tiles?
If the is the case, Movement Handicap should not imply it can traverse sea tiles. Also, why have a warning about sinking in ocean tiles hen the ship can never enter an ocean tile?
If the effects of the Great Lighthouse are what allow it to enter sea tiles, they would also prevent it from sinking in a sea tile.
 

Civinator

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I do not see how that could have a major impact on play, I do not recall seeing many AI armies in "vanilla" Conquests. We fish for Great Leaders, does the AI?
According to the readme file and the hints in the config file, the Flintlock mod just tries to change this behaviour when the MGLs are converted in armies or buildings. Of course the AI receives MGLs, too.
Civinator: I do not know if this is another unit not behaving properly, a poorly worded civopedia entry, or a byproduct of the Flintlock patch.
I could not get our Transport ships to enter a sea tile. Also, I see in the .biq file settings that it will sinks in either sea or ocean. Could the setting that: It has no movement handicap for the coast, but the sea and ocean are not highlighted be the reason it can only sail on coastal tiles?
If the is the case, Movement Handicap should not imply it can traverse sea tiles. Also, why have a warning about sinking in ocean tiles hen the ship can never enter an ocean tile?
If the effects of the Great Lighthouse are what allow it to enter sea tiles, they would also prevent it from sinking in a sea tile.
The early transport ships in CCM 2.50 have the wheeled flag and in CCM 2.5 ocean terrain is set to not allow ships with the wheeled flag to move on those tiles. These ships can move on coastal and sea tiles. If you set the movement that such a ship starts its movement on a coastal tile, passes over a sea tile and ends its movement on a coastal tile in the same turn, the route of that ship is marked by a red line on the map. If you only draw the ship on a sea tile no such line is visible, but the ship should be moved on that tile. These settings are also working with the Flintlock mod and CCM 2.50. I had a look into the settings of CCM 2.50 for the Spanish transport ship and all is o.k. If the ship can not be drawn on the sea tile, here something other is wrong.

In CCM 2.50 the movement costs are higher than in normal C3C. These movement handicaps are partly compensated by disabling those higher movement costs for ships in certain terrains. Therefore in different kinds of terrain some ships can be faster (and can move a longer distance in a turn) than other ships. In CCM 2.50 the Spanish transport can move "full speed" and range on coastal terrain - but not on sea terrain.

Spanish transport ship.jpg


The text about the passage of ocean tiles with these settings is superfluos, but it was left in case that somebody removes the movement restriction for wheeled units for the ocean tiles in the game, as in this case the "sinks in sea and ocean-flags" are still existing.

Have you really tried to draw that ship into a sea tile by only moving it to the white circle without a red line ?
Spoiler :

Sea transport1.jpg

Sea transport2.jpg


 
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LKendter

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I didn't think about using the mouse on the ship. By default I use the keyboard, and kept wondering why the ship was stuck.
 

Jersey Joe

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I didn't think about using the mouse on the ship. By default I use the keyboard, and kept wondering why the ship was stuck.
And I never think about using the keyboard.
I tried to draw the ship into a sea tile by getting a white circle to move into, it did not move.
When I tried a move like you show (moving through 1 sea tile to another coastal tile) I get a 23 tile redline path moving through only coastal tiles.

Civinator, thank you for the explanations about how ship movement is defined in the .biq file and about the warning statement. :thumbsup: Now both those items make sense to me.

I wonder if the manner in which the Flintlock patch setting: "disallow_land_units_from_affecting_water_tiles =" is implement, causes any unit with the Wheeled Flag set as to be treated as a land unit?
 

Civinator

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I found the reason for the problem with the movement of those ancient transport ships: In the old biq when CCM 2.5 was released, even sea terrain is blocked for wheeled units. That´s why in my screenshot with CCM 2.6 (in development) such a screenshot only needs two tiles to cross a sea terrain tile, while you needed a 23 tile path for a passage to that tile only using coastal terrain. The setting for not allowing wheeled units the passage over sea terrain was changed a longer time ago during the development of CCM 2.6 as it is not needed for a better game play. So in your current game you have to wait for merchant ships coming with tech Seafaring that don´t have the wheeled flag (even the trireme and the catapult ship have the wheeled flag).

The cause for the movement restriction of the ancient transport ships is in the settings of the old CCM 2.50 biq for sea terrain and has nothing to do with the Flintlock mod.
 
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Jersey Joe

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Civinator, :thanx: for looking into the ship problem.

The reason I found I could not enter a sea tile was that I had finished circumnavigating our continent and wanted to search the sea for another continent.
 

LKendter

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Not the war I wanted first...
Nubia fits easier into the empire.
 
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