LK168, Greece, Sid Attempt

[Jersey Joe]

For any leftover workers, I usually focus on getting our smallest cities to grow. I think this set, I'll invert that to focus on Mycenae, Irtjet, Bien Hoa, Vientiane, Wawat, Meroe, Axum, and Napata. Feel free to call out any other cities that need a boost.

Mycenae should be at the top of your list It does not need a lot to finish it. Bien Hoa needs a lot more food, I would chop the grassland forest and irrigate it plus all the plains. Napata is pretty well developed and mabe can get by with just more rails for now.

If workers are available, Plains Forests should chopped before being mined.

Delhi should be added to your list, it needs 1 hill mined, roaded and railed and 1 grassland railed. The rest of India can be used to produce settlers.

N.B. I did not eliminate my temp city of lmn8me-5 because I think it is keeping Scandinavia's borders from expanding unto the rail-line connecting Fort Onega to Fort Coffee.

 

[Jersey Joe]

With Hoover each factory add 100% to the shields. That means a town with 4 shield buildings goes from 200% to 300% or a 50% increase in shields. The game is long enough we will likely want factories in pretty much every important city, and doing a factory first is fastest.

Hoover adds a Power Plant to every city and that Power plant works in every city even those without a Factory. A Factory only adds 50% to the Shields so 200% goes to 250% not 300% which is a 25% increase in shield production. Also, the best total bonus you can currently get from commonly available shield boosting buildings is 225%.

I cannot argue with putting a factory in every important city.
However, my idea of an important city seems to differ with your idea of an important city.

With the ability to build mined forest, the grassland towns will become decent later.

At what cost? Every 2 Forests planted cost 3 Scientists and we lose 12 beakers. To build 1 turn Infantry right now, a grassland city needs about 10 mined forests depending on how many bonus grass tiles it has. It costs 9 worker turns to plant a forest and 12 worker turns to build a mine. Each mined forest costs 21 worker turn and 10 mined forests would cost 210 worker turns. Those 210 worker turns are might be enough to finish landscaping Mycenae plus at least one other city on Elephantium's list. Most of which should be able to produce 1 turn Infantry if not more expensive troops.

Note that if our culture is bad enough, then razing towns will give us very few workers. If that is the case I would prefer to keep cities until the civ dies which is likely not a long time. Even if we use the town as a science town starving down the size, the hundreds of science doing this is worth more than 0-3 worker,

3 Points
1) Until we raze a city we do not know it it is worth it or not.
2) Staving using Scientists works well if we are researching a tech in 4 to 6 turns. However, losing a Scientist per turn per city we are staving, does not work as well when we need 22 turns to research a tech. Starving 5 size 20 cities by hiring 100 scientist to start will only reduce our research time to around 19 turns needed (quick approximation) .
3) The cost to steal a tech is not reduced by how much we have researched. The cost to steal Interwar Period (not researched) was the same as Radio (researched). So we do not benefit from having scientists if we are stealing tech, we would be better of generating more gold per turn.

Actually, I do not know if we should keep Researching at 70%. The longest it might take to the Maghreb to learn WW2 Ships is about 18 turns and that is if they study
Totalitarianism -> Blitzkreig Tactics -> WW2 Ships.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Hey, we can build planes. How much of an air force do we want?

Several cities are about to riot, so I adjust them.
Angkor gives up a mountain - still doing 1-turn Infantry
Toshka is building Motorized Settlers, hmm, I think it needs more food if it's going to keep up with that.
Mandalay steals a mountain back from Phnom Penh, who focuses on growth.
Mycenae adjusts citizens for 1-turn growth

Looking around, we have a LOT of open space. A modest investment of Worker turns for roads will let us settle empty grassland, edges of deserts, empty coast in Old India, etc.

Do we want to start that process soonish? Or wait until we own the continent?

Development plan:
Breakpoints we want are
130 (Vickers)
100 (2-turn Steamrollers)
90 (Greek Infantry)
65 (2-turn Vickers, hitting this will often enable 3-turn Steamrollers as well)
50 (1-turn combat settlers)
45 (2-turn Greek Infantry)

Air force wants:
120 (Interwar Bombers)
110 (P.24 Fighters)
60 (2-turn bombers)
55 (2-turn fighters)

Athens, 93 needs 3 mined forests to hit 130 spt
Angkor, 91 needs 3 mined forests and a couple of cops to hit 130spt. Or 2 mined forests and the mountain it shares with Phnom Penh -- we'll have to take another look once that city is fully grown.
Sparta, 58 needs 1 mined forest to break 65 spt.
Saigon, 51 needs 3 mined forests (and a Gas Holder) to break 90 spt.
Thermopylae, 45 needs 2 mined forests (and a GH) to break 65 spt.
Hanoi, 42 needs 2 mined forests (and a GH) to hit 65 spt
Knossos, 38 needs 2 mined forests (plus GH and Railyard) to hit 65 spt.

Mycenae, Da Nang, Vientiane, Napata, and Bien Hoa all need growth and/or shield buildings before I can calculate.

All other cities are under 30 spt.

Promising small cities include Irtjet, Buhen, Meroe, Wawat, Axum, Skordalia, Ephesus, and Fort Gator. Maybe Zatju, Rhodes, Bengal, Ballana, Kerma, Dongola, and Semna, too - but some of those start to run into higher corruption figures.

Priority list is going to be Mycenae, Da Nang, Vientiane, Napata, and Bien Hoa in no particular order -- I'll evaluate that list each turn with the Workers available. Next will be Sparta and Hanoi (1 forest), then Knossos and Hanoi (2nd forest) before moving on to the "promising small cities".

Research:

Finally, I'd like to turn off research and focus on gold to feed tech steals. Any vetoes there?

 

[Greebley]

If the AI have most or all techs we can get I don't mind if you turn off research during that time.

I wouldn't concentrate on filling in land yet, but starting to fill the land isn't bad if there are sufficient settlers.

 

[Jersey Joe]

How much of an air force do we want?

I don't think we need any air force yet. Every plane built is 1 less ground pounder.

... I'd like to turn off research and focus on gold to feed tech steals. Any vetoes there?

I do not have an objection as long as we continue to build research buildings.

Looking around, we have a LOT of open space. A modest investment of Worker turns for roads will let us settle empty grassland, edges of deserts, empty coast in Old India, etc.

Do we want to start that process soonish? Or wait until we own the continent?

Worker turns are a problem. Consider only building a few towns. Towns build now should be around long enough to get an expansion to the third ring. If you can get extra resources or luxuries that would be a bonus. That is all we have left to trade to some of the civs like Poland and Britain.

We have 5 cities that can build 1 turn Vickers what we need right now are more Infantry. Also why build Steamrollers in 2 turns? Look at Thermopylae (though a partial rush of a Gas Holder would help), it is growing in size while slow building Steamrollers.

Please do not forget Pharsalos needs 1 mined forest.

 

[LKendter]

I'd like at least a handful of planes. A few on recon missions along the front would make life much easier.

 

[Elephantium]

New development. Spain declared war on us abruptly over the IBT!

I think it's a variant of the sub bug -- the only action we saw was a bombing in Fort Hephastus, defended by 1 Partisan.

They'll take 4-5 turns to get anything in reach to threaten us, so I'm going to proceed against Israel as planned.

 

[LKendter]

New development. Spain declared war on us abruptly over the IBT!

Maybe time for another MPP to wear them down.

 

[Jersey Joe]

We still have a few turns remaining on our MPP with the Inca. I wonder why bombing our town did not trigger the MPP we have with the Inca.
Unless the MPP was not triggered because Spain bombed a Partisan.

I built a Fortification in Fort Khatovar (the only town attacked by the Monguls) and it seemed to be very effective.

 

[Civinator]

New development. Spain declared war on us abruptly over the IBT!
I think it's a variant of the sub bug -- the only action we saw was a bombing in Fort Hephastus, defended by 1 Partisan.

I think it is more a variant of the known Privateer bug, when a coastal town is only defended by a naval HN-unit. In the case of the Privateer bug, the HN-ship is directly attacked by the other ship in the harbour (so ships normally can not perform normal attacks into coastal cities) and than the other civ is in war with you.

It seems, that this also works for a bombardment attack on a HN land unit, if that HN land unit is the only defender of the city. This could become a very ugly war trigger and exploit in a game.

Are you now after the bombardment attack in a official war with Spain ?

 

[Elephantium]

We still have a few turns remaining on our MPP with the Inca. I wonder why bombing our town did not trigger the MPP we have with the Inca.
Unless the MPP was not triggered because Spain bombed a Partisan.

I built a Fortification in Fort Khatovar (the only town attacked by the Monguls) and it seemed to be very effective.

Oh, but it did trigger the MPP. That will be in my turn log

@LKendter Who would you suggest for a second MPP? Israel is the best positioned for it, but we're conquering them, not looking to them for help (with legions of Crossbows and Late Pikemen )

@Civinator Yep, we're officially at war. I think you're right about this being a variant of the Privateer bug. I don't recall hearing the name before, but your description sounds familiar from a previous game.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I don't know if we need another MPP. The Inca are the ideal country to have an MPP with, they have a very long border with Spain. If it works like it did with the Mongols, Spain will send its troops against the Inca and if we attack from the North after annexing Israel we should for the most part only have to deal with city defenders.

On the plus side we might finally make contact with the Lowlands since they have a MPP with Spain.

If we sign an MPP with Germany when Germany declares war on Spain, Germany would stop sending Spain Iron.

 

[Elephantium]

Yep, we have contact with the Lowlands now. They have 17k cash and tech parity with us (well, according to tradeable techs, anyway)

 

[Civinator]

Yep, we're officially at war. I think you're right about this being a variant of the Privateer bug. I don't recall hearing the name before, but your description sounds familiar from a previous game.

The Privateer bug is explained here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/interesting-screenshots.192414/page-224#post-14998793

One post below there is the report, that this bug can be also triggered by a HN land unit: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/interesting-screenshots.192414/page-224#post-14998887

I think I will remove the HN flag of the partisans, guerillas and charlies in the next version of CCM to stop using this exploit by land units and considering the enslavers, holy men and lawyers I think it is a good idea to report this exploit to Flintlock to set it on his list.

 

[Elephantium]

Mid-turn teaser:

 

[Jersey Joe]

That was quicker than I expected.

I wonder how well Spain's 2 northern cities are defended

Is it worth the trouble to take over the 3 Egyptian cities that are on our continent?

If this is how quickly we are going to annex a civs, we need to put a little more emphasis on building the naval task force to invade Japan.

 

[Elephantium]

Hey, does anyone know if air units are lost during culture flips? We captured some Spanish Zeppelins along the way...

@Jersey Joe Egypt has 5 cities on our continent. Lisht, Asyut, and Avaris are pretty close to Old Israel. Buto and Rabbah are "hiding" further north in the tundra, near oil and ... coffee?

I know coffee is valid for hills, but seeing it in a tundra zone doesn't seem quite right

 

[Greebley]

yes you can lose air units to flips. Has one SG were on the first inter-turn a vast fleet of bombers was lost.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Several cities are about to riot, so I adjust them.
Angkor gives up a mountain - still doing 1-turn Infantry
Toshka is building Motorized Settlers, hmm, I think it needs more food if it's going to keep up with that.
Mandalay steals a mountain back from Phnom Penh, who focuses on growth.
Mycenae adjusts citizens for 1-turn growth

I'm not going to bother with an air force. We can build a few fighters when the war with Spain starts (Narrator: We did not).

I'm not going to bother planting many space-filler towns. We can plop a bunch down once we own the continent. For now, worker turns need to be spent elsewhere.

Development plan, focus on getting our "middling" cities (Bien Hoa, etc) up to par.

Trading checks:

We sign peace with Japan. They throw 68 gold and their WM into the deal.
We renegotiate peace with Poland, stopping the Coal and gpt deal. Now it's just straight-up peace.

New deals, ONLY with civs on the opposite continent.
Poland gives us 156 gpt for Coal.
Korea gives us 98gpt for Gems, Coffee, Tobacco, Rubber, and Saltpeter.
Russia gives us 49gpt for Coal, Gems, and Camel.
Australia gives us 75gpt for Gems, Horses, and Gold.
China gives us 68gpt for Gems and Horses.
Italy gives us Furs and 5gpt for Hardwood and Elephants.
Arabia gives us 11gpt for Gems.

I cut science to 0.

IBT:

Spain declares war on us!
Incas declare on Spain

Spain bombards Fort Hephastus which is defended only by a Partisan. This reminds me of the sub bug...

Lowlands declares war on Inca.

We catch Arabia sabotaging Saigon.

1879 AD:

We know the Lowlands now. They have 17k gold and seem to be at tech parity with us.

Fort Hephastus renamed to Fort Hephaestus

I dial up Israel and declare war.

I move JJ's dot by 1 tile, giving a path to both Bethlehem and Elath. Artillery heads for Bethlehem with some Infantry.

At Elath, we lose 2 Vickers in the assault.

Nazareth costs us another 2 Vickers

Gaza is a little easier; top defender was a Hussar! However, it has over a dozen units in it, so it keeps the army busy. We lose two Armored Cars in the assault. All told, it took 19 units, and we get 9 workers.

Battle of Kadesh:
Armored Car reveals 6 Pikes and 4 Crossbows.
Our Vickers make short work of them.
We get 11 workers.

We still have a lot of unmoved Vickers, so we offer battle to an Israeli stack N of Asturias. The stack has around 80 soldiers; it's down to 64 units when we run out of Vickers.
We get a Leader in the process! Achilles rushes Super Dreadnoughts in Phnom Penh.

This does inspire me to re-MM our mid-tier cities. I shift most of the cities making 25 to 60 spt from building Railyards and Gas Holders to building Infantry.

IBT:

Turkey and Maghreb sign MPP
Aztecs and Korea sign peace

Israel attacks!
Hussar dies to our Armored Car
Treb kills Armored Car
Inca declares war on Israel due to our MPP
Cannon dies to our Infantry near Jerusalem
Hussar destroys a Vickers
Artillery dies to Infantry
Cannon kills Infantry
Artillery retreats

Funny, I didn't see any movement from Spain. They must be busy for some reason :halo:

Byzantium hit by pollution.

Resistance in Elath ends.

MPP triggers as the Lowlands attacks the Incas. We autodeclare war.
We catch the Dutch planting a spy.
An Early HeavyTank autoproduces. At 12.5.2, it's strictly worse than our Vickers Mark E tanks at 12.5.3

 

[Elephantium]

1880 AD:

Battle of Bethlehem:
Heavy Artillery kill two Late Pikemen. The city crumbles -- I didn't need half as many units as I brought!
We also get a Leader. Diomedes rushes a Factory in Wawat.

Battle of Jerusalem:
Early Armored Car reveals 6 Line Infantry and kills one.
We lose 1 Vickers fighting the others.

Battle of Haifa, 1 Armored Car and 2 Vickers make short work of the defenders. We get 9 workers.

Battle of Jericho:
Early Armored Car reveals 10 Late Pikemen and 1 Line Infantry.
We get a Leader during the battle; he rushes a Factory in Rhodes.
We get 9 workers.

Battle of Hebron:
Early Armored Car reveals two Late Pikemen and one Line Infantry. They fall easily.

Clearing up some stray units, we get two Leaders. They rush Factories in Bengal and Fort Gator.

IBT:

We see a lot of movement from Israeli forces but no action.
We do see 1 Spanish unit -- an arty killing an Incan Adventurer.

Elath deposes us.

Incas declare war on USA.