LK168, Greece, Sid Attempt

In this situation an F11 screenshot (Demographics) could be interesting.
 
sg_132.jpg
 
@Greebley - your signature is out of date
 
750 AD: Decide to trade Japan for Wine. We don't need it so much now but it won't be available later because Japan will trade them all away.

I really think sending enslavers all alone is not a good practice (we lost one on Elephantium's turn). I wish we would stop doing that - or at least give them a normal speed 2 unit to protect vs other civs (with a guard they can attack out but be protected against the enemy retal). I will bring the one still out there back.

775 AD: We meet a Korean boat and find their border. They are up the usual tech.
Still weak to Indochina. Do want a war so building Military. More towns will help our tech slump long term.

850 AD: Declare war on Indochina. Our Military is at the limit we can afford. If too many units show up we can fall back a bit.

875 AD: Find backward China on the other continent. They are broke.
On our first loss with indochina, our gold goes from -19 to 11. My guess is our gold got recalculated when unit costs changed. We attacked Spear and then Archers gaining a worker.

900 AD: We kill 3 of the 7 Chariots from Indochina losing one and one or two Archers gaining another worker. One is injured an may retreat. The others will be able to attack us, but I think this will be their entire speed 2 force (catapults and ballistas still exist but move one).
Of the four attacking Chariots, we win 2 and lose 2.

925: Kill two Chariots. There is at least one coming. Our Pike are nearly at the front line. Our road is not that far behind.

IBT: We win the next Chariot battle so pretty good luck overall. Looks like we can advance.

950 AD: Don't move forward yet, the Hopolite are a turn away now so I wait.

I just missed getting Religion this turn (science 0 is still 1 so I buy it for 18 gold. That is likely the cheapest tech price I have seen (though I may have forgotten one).

I also get a serendipitous trade for older tech for Feudalism. Takes all 4 tech to afford. We are up religion only afterward.

Was going to stop here, but decided to squeeze in the final turn....

975 AD: More healing with the Hopolite caught up. There are fortified forces that could move, but I think we should advance with Hopolite protection next turn.

Notes:
Got the message about Divinity School. I did not place it yet in case people have opinions.
Pharsalos seem good longer term but will take a while to build it. It has the Iron hills, four other hills and some forest. Thermopylae seems the best fast build in 7 turns. I guess I would go with Thermopylae and Pharsalos for the Mil Academy (it seems too close to the Capital for the Great Palace and will be strong when Castle expire).

For the war, we are somewhat slower in tech with unit costs now, but taking all Indochina cities will double our city count with expected speed up after.

Indochina is still stronger than us but not by much from the Power graph. They may not send a lot of units until we take a city. In any case we need to be a bit on the cautious side. They have numbers but not speed. We have 32 units (some injured) at the lead stack outside their border.

We just got a Settler. I suggest the red dot on the map below. It has good potential as a high gold town with alot of coast and bonus cotton gold (weak in shields until dockyards). It also links our attack on Indochina and to keep our empire connected.

Edit: Image updated
LK168_AD975.png
 

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That war was a lot earlier than expected. With this being Sid I am really scared of troop volume from Indo-China.

Got it.
 
Nice trade for Feudalism. :yup:

Got the message about Divinity School. I did not place it yet in case people have opinions.
Pharsalos seem good longer term but will take a while to build it. It has the Iron hills, four other hills and some forest. Thermopylae seems the best fast build in 7 turns. I guess I would go with Thermopylae and Pharsalos for the Mil Academy (it seems too close to the Capital for the Great Palace and will be strong when Castle expire).
I would build School of Divinity in Thermopylae. The quicker it is built, the quicker we get Missionaries. Also, it has a short life going obsolete when we learn Humanism.
Temples go obsolete with Economics, after the first 3 are built, it is more efficient to build a Theater.

According to our Military Advisor, we have a Great leader named Odysseus. However, the only Odysseus I can find is a Greek Hero produced by the Statue of Zeus. :confused: Further, no other Greek Hero is enumerated by the Military Advisor.

Indochina does not have any Great Wonders. If they have any city with a size greater than 19, should we should raze it for the workers?
 
According to our Military Advisor, we have a Great leader named Odysseus. However, the only Odysseus I can find is a Greek Hero produced by the Statue of Zeus. :confused: Further, no other Greek Hero is enumerated by the Military Advisor.
This is a special setting for the Greek Hero unit in CCM. Giving a unit the leader-flag, but not the leader strategy, allows that a unit can receive individual names from the Military Leaders list, when being constructed (without the manually naming feature). If your only current hero is Odysseus, it seems Achilles, Diomedes and Ajax are missed in action. Your next Greek Hero should be Nestor. The Greek Heros are no military leaders in the sense of C3C.

Greek Heros.jpg
 
I would keep every city we can. We need cities to start catching up. A flips isn't bad if you just lose 2-3 defenders and when starving a very large city you earn a lot of science until they get down in size.

With 20 scientists that is 80 science a turn while it lasts.
 
That war was a lot earlier than expected. With this being Sid I am really scared of troop volume from Indo-China.

Got it.
We have room to fall back if needed. If we capture the city we get a turn warning vs the slower units and can give the city back if necessary. We have 32 units which is the largest army we can really afford so some losses is not bad. Attack and fall back can be done a lot of times before we are in trouble.

In any case, the power graph says they have more units but not a lot more. With our superior attack 3 vs defense 2 I think we should be fine

Hardest part will be healing, we want a city in the area. Injured units can fall back 2 and heal 1 if we are being chased.

The one advantage to being behind in tech is no buildings to build so we get units instead - though we can now build more with feudalism and religion in play.

Note I forgot to switch to castles - we can finally build those and may want them first rather than regular units.
 
Does that mean that we can't generate a Leader from combat while the Greek Hero units are in action?
Of course you can generate Leaders like normal. The named Greek heros are an additional feature.
 
I thought you could only have one Leader at a time in C3C. Is that something that CCM changes?
Elephantium, the Greek Hero is no leader, these units only use the different names of leaders. You could have several Greek Heros at the same time, if you wouldn´t have lost some of them during the game.
 
This is a special setting for the Greek Hero unit in CCM. Giving a unit the leader-flag, but not the leader strategy, allows that a unit can receive individual names from the Military Leaders list, when being constructed (without the manually naming feature). If your only current hero is Odysseus, it seems Achilles, Diomedes and Ajax are missed in action. Your next Greek Hero should be Nestor. The Greek Heros are no military leaders in the sense of C3C.

View attachment 645024
All four are alive and well. Ajax is near Delphi while the others are near the Indochina border:

achilles.pngdiomedes-and-odysseus.pngajax.png


Elephantium, the Greek Hero is no leader, these units only use the different names of leaders. You could have several Greek Heros at the same time, if you wouldn´t have lost some of them during the game.

:confused: Odysseus appears on the F3/Military Advisor screen. I didn't think you could generate a Leader while you already had one according to that screen. Is there some other piece of this that I'm missing?

mil-advisor.png
 
I've barely started my setting, and I am going WTH?
The volume of troops coming at us just got insane. I now feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. We are already hopelessly behind in tech. If we don't get bigger, then the game is lost. At the same time, I don't see how we can survive the sheer numbers of what is coming our way. Feel free to comment, as I need to take a few hour break before continuing the attack.

 
:confused: Odysseus appears on the F3/Military Advisor screen. I didn't think you could generate a Leader while you already had one according to that screen. Is there some other piece of this that I'm missing?
That part in the Military advisor screen is triggered by the leader flag of that unit - but alone the leader flag doesn´t make a military leader. Additionally the leader strategy box in the editor must be enabled for that unit and that unit must be set as the military leader in the general settings of the editor - what is not the case for the Greek Hero. The military leader, who has all three prerequisites in CCM is the standard C3C leader.

Elephantium, do a simple test: Try to rush a building with one of your Greek heros and you will see, that this will not work. Reason: The Greek Heros are no military leaders.
 
@Civinator My concern is the other way around, that the flag that makes a Greek Hero appear on F3 also prevents new GLs from appearing.

@LKendter I'd say the saving grace here is that Indochina has very few fast units. My battle plan would look like:
1. Retreat the workers and slow units towards the river. Build a road 1S from the cotton and put the Enslavers there.
2. Hit the first stack as hard as you can with fast units, then retreat healthy units one tile on the road. Ideally end the turn with nothing on the tile next to the Indochinese SoD.
3. Indochina will advance onto the end of the road.
4. Repeat harassment by fast units, retreating to 1S from the cotton.
5. Indochina will advance to the road 1SE from the cotton.
6. Hit Spears with Cataphracts, then hit the Archers with the Enslavers. Retreat them 1S across the river. Finally, use 1 Hoplite to pillage the road on that tile.
7. Let the enemy lose units attacking fortified Hoplites across the river.
8. Continue the fighting retreat to the gates of Knossos.

Up to you whether you commit the Greek Hero units in the initial assault or hold them in reserve at the river -- weigh support costs vs. being able to attack archers instead of spears.

How many Cataphracts and Hoplites can we get to the river in the next 4 turns?

sg_133.jpg
 
@Civinator My concern is the other way around, that the flag that makes a Greek Hero appear on F3 also prevents new GLs from appearing.
Yes, I understand this, but your concern is wrong. One more - and last - additional argument: If your concern would be true, you wouldn´t have a hero Odysseus in your army, when the other heros, who are in the row before Odysseus, are still existing. In that case Achilles would have blocked the appearance of the next heros - but they are there.
 
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