LK172, Civ=France, CCM3, just win
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
That would be an interesting challenge. I wonder if it would take much longer. We might have to avoid the tech leaders and concentrate on the backward civs. 500-600 Calvalryt or Dragoons should almost be as effective as armored cars and tanks.
Civinator, Thank You for the time you spend giving us this Great Mod.
Overall, I found our first CCM3 game enjoyable to play, even though my last set of turns was tedious.
If you want us to learn more techs. It would help to get Observatories and their 50% science bonus back. Without that bonus we could not learn a tech in 4 turns. Even at the end of the game with 258 cities it would take us 5 turns to learn Flight. Also, during my last set of turns the AI, including the tech leaders we were tied with, wasn’t learning techs in 4 turns.
If you are going to drastically limit the number of Armies, I would ask for 2 simple changes.
With respect to Railroads and not being able to use workers to build them:
CCM3 increased the worker management we had to do after we learned Railroads.
Overall, I found our first CCM3 game enjoyable to play, even though my last set of turns was tedious.
If you want us to learn more techs. It would help to get Observatories and their 50% science bonus back. Without that bonus we could not learn a tech in 4 turns. Even at the end of the game with 258 cities it would take us 5 turns to learn Flight. Also, during my last set of turns the AI, including the tech leaders we were tied with, wasn’t learning techs in 4 turns.
If you are going to drastically limit the number of Armies, I would ask for 2 simple changes.
First, be able to unload troops from an Army so those units can be upgraded.
Second, increase the Army size from 3 to 4.
With respect to Railroads and not being able to use workers to build them:
CCM3 increased the worker management we had to do after we learned Railroads.
In CCM2.5, when we learned railroads, we started creating stacks of from 2-32 workers/slaves, plus steamrollers, that could build a railroad in 1 turn. That reduced the workers/slaves available to landscape.
In CCM3 all those workers/slaves stayed at their jobs landscaping and are not divert to railroading. So the number of stacks we have to manage does not decrease.
Since I like to complete the landscaping in 1 turn, I am moving all my worker stacks every turn and because the change did not reduce the stacks. The change increased the time I spent managing workers.
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I noticed the same thing with science pace. It was already dragging during the industrial age. I agree that lack of observatories contributed to that.
Don't forget that we often had a ton of scientist in play that were from starving cities. There were times that I had 100+ scientist in play.
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I'm not sure is unload troops is possible. IIRC it isn't available in the base game.
I did miss the pentagon from the base game making armies larger.
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My idea for backdoor naval speed increase only partially worked. I made the Palace and Worker Houses give +2 to sea movement. A Northern Transport starts at 3 moves. Seafaring upped that to 4 moves. Palace upped that to 6 moves. I then build Worker Houses. It stayed at 6 moves. The game won't allow more than 2 bonus moves.
With my mod, and Scandinavia being seafaring with could gain 3 movement to all ships. @Jersey Joe , would that be enough for you? If not, then it requires all naval units to be adjusted.
With my mod, and Scandinavia being seafaring with could gain 3 movement to all ships. @Jersey Joe , would that be enough for you? If not, then it requires all naval units to be adjusted.
Yes, thank you. Any improvement is speed is appreciated.
Not that I am greedy,
but did you try checking both +1 and +2 sea movement in the Palace? Or mixing Palace+2 sea movement with Worker House+1 sea movement?
I wonder if the seafaring wonders that give extra movement will work for us.
Not that I am greedy,
but did you try checking both +1 and +2 sea movement in the Palace? Or mixing Palace+2 sea movement with Worker House+1 sea movement?I wonder if the seafaring wonders that give extra movement will work for us.
I think so. Right below the box that is checked to load, is a box to check to unload. There is also check box to increase the army size from 3 to 4.
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Not that I am greedy,
Hmmm.... Not greedy???????
With Palace +2, Worker Housing +1, Seafaring +1 the base 3 movement went to 7. Adding the Great Lighthouse still leaves it at seven. You can have a single +1 and a single +2 bonus. Those stack.
Let me know if that changes your votes.
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I think the posted idea to "lay rails" over the water terrain by nearly quadrupling the movement rate of ships would be much to much for the AI. Please have a look at the created random continental maps and you will see, that those quadrupled movement rates mostly will be sufficient to transport landing fleets in one move to a different continent (and in some locations even to move them back to your home continent). The calculation by using the standard map size and not the huge map size, in my eyes is not fitting well, as the 160 x 160 hugh standard map size is much closer to the 250 x 250 map size than a 130 x 130 map and the 160 map size is covered by the ship movement settings of the standard map, too. The movement points for ships compared to map sizes in my eyes is not linear, but degressing. The movement rate for midgame transport ships in CCM 3 (compared to CCM 2.5), starting with the galleon, was raised by one additional tile (for the galleon from MV 4 to MV 5). Simply play the 180 x 180 map of CCM 3 and you are at least very close to the "fitting" movement rate for ships. I mostly play the 180 x180 map with CCM 3.
The upgrading of units inside an army is very problematic, as the only way would be to upgrade an army by a newer type of an army. In normal Civ 3 this is only possible in a city that holds a building that allows to build armies without leaders - and the AI is not capable to do such a job. The question is, if there is a change in that problem with the setting in C3X that an upgrade of a unit is possible in every city and if this is also possible for armies. This would need the creation of different types of armies and to have some testing of it in DEBUG mod.
If you want to do your own modifications of the CCM 3 biq, please take into account that you should use the Quintillus editor for it, as the normal Firaxis editors could damage the settings for a cultural victory (that is far beyond the possibilities of the Firaxis editors).
This written, I made the following changes to the biq according to your former wishes and error reports in this game (but not for rails on water):
- Map Trading added especially for the succession games
- Workshops costing happiness: Fixed to no unhappiness
- The Corporation is an additional prerequisite for Communism
- Each army needs ten cities as a prerequisite (no wish by the players but needed in my eyes)
- National GW "The Harbor of Carthage" renamed to "Cothon"; Palace no longer a prereq. GW now has the costal flag.
- Motor cycle units have MV 3 and A6, D4. Early ACs no longer upgrade to them.
- Normal workers can build railroads again:
The shortcut problem was not fixed yet and even the AI is ignoring the former limitation. It also has no use to introduce a "wellness setting" to reduce micromanagement, if the players don´t want that wellness for other reasons.
In the civilopedia there are the following changes (according to your error reports):
Cvilopedia text for the "monument" entry added
Acropolis: Civilopedia entry improved
Civilopedia entries for resources are updated
Factory civilopedia entry fixed: no additional unhappiness
At present I am rewriting the civilopedia entries for the upgrades of the early armored cars. A little click in the editor has a big column of civilopedia entries as the consequence.
And here some special words to the combat settlers. The combat settlers in my eyes are the "true atomic bombs" of Civ 3. As there is nothing in history that equals them, they will no longer have an important position in normal CCM 3 biqs. On the other side I understand the special problem in the succession games to need an official "diploma" for the victory. There is the point in many 4x games, when the player thinks "now I have won the game, there is no more fun in continuing" and skips the game (Civ 7 tries to change here something, but I am very sceptical). Simply skipping the game is no glorious end for a succession game, here a setting is needed that gives a way to finish the game in a handful of turns with glory.
As the CCM 3 biq holds a special setting for map trading, it is also acceptable to do an earlier setting for the building of settlers in the succession game.
I think there is an empty slot in the techbox of the advanced steam engines and to set the settler in that slot for the succession game biq.
I lost some time by writing this post, but I hope that I can post the new succession game biq and the civilopedia file even tonight (or at least tomorrow).
The upgrading of units inside an army is very problematic, as the only way would be to upgrade an army by a newer type of an army. In normal Civ 3 this is only possible in a city that holds a building that allows to build armies without leaders - and the AI is not capable to do such a job. The question is, if there is a change in that problem with the setting in C3X that an upgrade of a unit is possible in every city and if this is also possible for armies. This would need the creation of different types of armies and to have some testing of it in DEBUG mod.
If you want to do your own modifications of the CCM 3 biq, please take into account that you should use the Quintillus editor for it, as the normal Firaxis editors could damage the settings for a cultural victory (that is far beyond the possibilities of the Firaxis editors).
This written, I made the following changes to the biq according to your former wishes and error reports in this game (but not for rails on water):
- Map Trading added especially for the succession games
- Workshops costing happiness: Fixed to no unhappiness
- The Corporation is an additional prerequisite for Communism
- Each army needs ten cities as a prerequisite (no wish by the players but needed in my eyes)
- National GW "The Harbor of Carthage" renamed to "Cothon"; Palace no longer a prereq. GW now has the costal flag.
- Motor cycle units have MV 3 and A6, D4. Early ACs no longer upgrade to them.
- Normal workers can build railroads again:
The shortcut problem was not fixed yet and even the AI is ignoring the former limitation. It also has no use to introduce a "wellness setting" to reduce micromanagement, if the players don´t want that wellness for other reasons.
In the civilopedia there are the following changes (according to your error reports):
Cvilopedia text for the "monument" entry added
Acropolis: Civilopedia entry improved
Civilopedia entries for resources are updated
Factory civilopedia entry fixed: no additional unhappiness
At present I am rewriting the civilopedia entries for the upgrades of the early armored cars. A little click in the editor has a big column of civilopedia entries as the consequence.
And here some special words to the combat settlers. The combat settlers in my eyes are the "true atomic bombs" of Civ 3. As there is nothing in history that equals them, they will no longer have an important position in normal CCM 3 biqs. On the other side I understand the special problem in the succession games to need an official "diploma" for the victory. There is the point in many 4x games, when the player thinks "now I have won the game, there is no more fun in continuing" and skips the game (Civ 7 tries to change here something, but I am very sceptical). Simply skipping the game is no glorious end for a succession game, here a setting is needed that gives a way to finish the game in a handful of turns with glory.
As the CCM 3 biq holds a special setting for map trading, it is also acceptable to do an earlier setting for the building of settlers in the succession game.
I think there is an empty slot in the techbox of the advanced steam engines and to set the settler in that slot for the succession game biq.
I lost some time by writing this post, but I hope that I can post the new succession game biq and the civilopedia file even tonight (or at least tomorrow).
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Wonder-provided bonuses to ship-moves don't stack, unfortunately.
A very quick'n'dirty way to (kinda sorta) scale boat-moves with mapsize is to give Ocean tiles a move-cost of zero, so that all Ocean-capable vessel-moves get used only for manoeuvering in Sea + Coast tiles. If that sounds like it might be OP without changing all current boat M-values, then move-cost of Coast-and/or Sea-tiles could maybe also be increased (from 2 to 3 MP? Not sure what's currently set for Coast+Sea tiles in CCM3...) to eat some of the 'excess' moves.
Also not sure what would happen to any boats which have 'Ignore move cost' set for zero-cost Ocean-terrain -- would they then be slowed down to 1 tile per MP...?
Armies can be set to unload their units, but then you won't be able to transport them by ship or transport-aircraft (because a unit which can Unload, cannot itself be loaded into any other unit). You can, however, still set an Unloadable Army to be Airliftable via Airports (and Airbases -- if those are activated in CCM3?).
A very quick'n'dirty way to (kinda sorta) scale boat-moves with mapsize is to give Ocean tiles a move-cost of zero, so that all Ocean-capable vessel-moves get used only for manoeuvering in Sea + Coast tiles. If that sounds like it might be OP without changing all current boat M-values, then move-cost of Coast-and/or Sea-tiles could maybe also be increased (from 2 to 3 MP? Not sure what's currently set for Coast+Sea tiles in CCM3...) to eat some of the 'excess' moves.
Also not sure what would happen to any boats which have 'Ignore move cost' set for zero-cost Ocean-terrain -- would they then be slowed down to 1 tile per MP...?
Armies can be set to unload their units, but then you won't be able to transport them by ship or transport-aircraft (because a unit which can Unload, cannot itself be loaded into any other unit). You can, however, still set an Unloadable Army to be Airliftable via Airports (and Airbases -- if those are activated in CCM3?).
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I've never been able to get the Quntillus editor to work. I forget the error message, but it would never save for me.
IMO railroads are the "true atomic bombs" of Civ 3. Human players know to cash rush a ton of steamrollers. The rail-net allows you to fight without having to plan ahead where the troops need to be.
Looking forward to the new .BIQ.
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1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.
Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium: 1,3,2,5,4
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,5,4,1 <<< Waiting on answer about revised speed.
Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 so far I get:
1 = 16 (Tentative win)
2 = 12 OUT
3 = 14
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 8 OUT
Start is pending on revised .BIQ from Civinator.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.
Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium: 1,3,2,5,4
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,5,4,1 <<< Waiting on answer about revised speed.
Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 so far I get:
1 = 16 (Tentative win)
2 = 12 OUT
3 = 14
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 8 OUT
Start is pending on revised .BIQ from Civinator.
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Here is the new CCM 3 biq prepared for the succession games. It holds all normal changes and fixes of the new CCM 3 biq listed in my last post and additionally two special settings that are not in the normal CCM 3 biq: It allows maptrading with tech Printing Press (so this cannot be seen in the techtree) and the normal building of the combat settler with tech Mass Production. The GW Hofburg now becomes obsolete with tech Improved Steam Engines to free the slot in the techbox Mass Production for the Combat settler.
I gave that special CCM3 biq the name CCM3-Succession to avoid a mix-up in my biq files. The CCM3-Succession biq can be started with this name (so of course it is also possible to rename it). Simply place it in the C3C scenarios folder.
I also add the new CCM 3 civilopedia file to this post. I made no special civilopedia file for the CCM3-Succession biq to avoid a mix-up with the normal CCM 3 civilopedia file. So in this file for the succession game there are two inaccuracies: There is no special note that tech Printing Press here allows map trading and the note in tech Mass Production, that the GW Hofburg becomes obsolete, here is wrong as it becomes obsolete with tech Improved Steam Engines (what is shown there in the techbox).
Whatever you decide to play: Have fun.
I gave that special CCM3 biq the name CCM3-Succession to avoid a mix-up in my biq files. The CCM3-Succession biq can be started with this name (so of course it is also possible to rename it). Simply place it in the C3C scenarios folder.
I also add the new CCM 3 civilopedia file to this post. I made no special civilopedia file for the CCM3-Succession biq to avoid a mix-up with the normal CCM 3 civilopedia file. So in this file for the succession game there are two inaccuracies: There is no special note that tech Printing Press here allows map trading and the note in tech Mass Production, that the GW Hofburg becomes obsolete, here is wrong as it becomes obsolete with tech Improved Steam Engines (what is shown there in the techbox).
Whatever you decide to play: Have fun.
The revised speed is very much appreciated.
I am okay with playing Scandinavia
If you want a revised vote it is 3, 2, 1, 5, 4 Which I do no think changes the winner.
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1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.
Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium: 1,3,2,5,4
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,1,5,4
Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 I get:
1 = 5,5,5,3 = 18
2 = 4,3,4,3 = 14
3 = 3,4,3,5 = 15
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 1,3,4,4 = 12
Will start #1 hopefully Wednesday
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.
Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium: 1,3,2,5,4
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,1,5,4
Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 I get:
1 = 5,5,5,3 = 18
2 = 4,3,4,3 = 14
3 = 3,4,3,5 = 15
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 1,3,4,4 = 12
Will start #1 hopefully Wednesday
Civinator, Thank you for the updated CCM3 files.
I added the biq file and replaced the Civilopedia.txt file in the CCM3 scenario folder and when I tried to run the new CCM3-Succession.biq got the following error:
I can load and run a new CCM3 game using the biq file we used for the game just finished.
I think this error occurred before when we where doing the original loads of CCM3. I do have #ICON_BLDG_Admiral_YiŽs_Navy
How should I fix this problem?
I added the biq file and replaced the Civilopedia.txt file in the CCM3 scenario folder and when I tried to run the new CCM3-Succession.biq got the following error:
I can load and run a new CCM3 game using the biq file we used for the game just finished.
I think this error occurred before when we where doing the original loads of CCM3. I do have #ICON_BLDG_Admiral_YiŽs_Navy
How should I fix this problem?
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Jersey Joe, the pediaIcons entry #ICON_BLDG_Admiral_YiŽs_Navy is wrong. The correct text is #ICON_BLDG_Admiral_Yi as it is written in the error message.
The complete working entry of that GW:
#ICON_BLDG_Admiral_Yi
SINGLE
220
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\AdmiralYi-LG.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\AdmiralYi-SM.pcx
Please replace the pediaIcons text file in your CCM 3 text folder by the pediaIcons file posted in the CCM 3 thread:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm3-epic-mod.690497/#post-16624626
The complete working entry of that GW:
#ICON_BLDG_Admiral_Yi
SINGLE
220
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\AdmiralYi-LG.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\AdmiralYi-SM.pcx
Please replace the pediaIcons text file in your CCM 3 text folder by the pediaIcons file posted in the CCM 3 thread:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm3-epic-mod.690497/#post-16624626
Thank you that fixed the problem. The pediacons file I had was from July 4, 2024.
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