LK173, Civ=Scandinavia, CCM3, Island Hopping

[LKendter]

Were the Japanese ships close to our home, or off in the distance? If close to home, then we may want to give in more often. I don’t like the idea of losing a loaded transport to random enemy ships. As it is I wonder if the lousy $50 was worth the losses.

I have no idea when to go after South Africa. IIRC they have the UU right now. We lack any quality units. Our best may be berserks in the near.

Can we get elephant training from Egypt for seafaring? It isn’t a great tech, but I like the idea of grabbing anything we can.

ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)

 

[Elephantium]

The first Japanese ship was pretty close to Stockholm, maybe 4-5 tiles away, sort of between the two boundary islands.

The second encounter was ~7 tiles E of the selected ship -- the Japanese ships moved almost straight W. It surprised me that they ended their turn on the sea tile -- but then again, they did complete the Great Lighthouse recently.

 

[Civinator]

Also, here's the island to our west. It has a couple of nice city sites, but it'll be a bit before we can ship the horses home

Unfortunately this "bit" will last much longer than expected, as there are ocean tiles between that island and your home continent, horses have no SW with a direct trade connection to your capital and there is also no capital of another civ, that is in peace with you, on that island. Ocean trade comes with early era 3. This means, that for a long time only in cities on that island horse units can be built. I have to fix this for this kind of "island hoping games" in the next version of the CCM biq.

This game without horses and especially iron on your home continent seems to become really tough - and it is no good idea to run into war with the most mighty civs in that game, as their ships are as fast as yours and frequently filled with land units.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

As it is I wonder if the lousy $50 was worth the losses.

Also consider the opportunity cost. What deals could have been made that the war prevents?

 

[Jersey Joe]

I mapped spots for 3 new cities that would secure out immediate coast line.
I don’t particular like Red W, but it fills in the western coast line.
Red E is similar to Red W, it fills in the coast line. It might be better to move it 1 tile south and get the kelp.
I like yellow the best, it has great production potential and would be another “troop a turn” build center.

 

[Elephantium]

Yellow is a little awkward with distance and a huge number of worker turns to get it up and running.

While red-W is a mediocre (ha, should have been blue with how sad it is!), it doesn't need much Worker attention for a while.

Red-E should definitely move towards the kelp.

What about going north from Goteborg or Kystbyen Civinator? Green dot gets decent food, a lot of shields, and benefits from the river. Blue is perfectly positioned with Kystbyen Civinator while purple gets seals and sheep (in which case blue would move NW)

 

[LKendter]

ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. Will wait a bit on opinions of a war soon vs waiting (thanksgiving anyway so not much time to play). Not sure on my own opinion yet.

 

[LKendter]

What type of troops can we get soon? That heavily affects the decision when to go to war. I know near the end of this era we open up our UU for smacking down coastal cities.

Have we located iron around the South African cities? That would influence the decision. Lack of swords and horses really limit our options.

Trying to take out South Africa with archers is all but impossible. We simply lack the transports to get the volume needed to make a dent. That ignores getting enough spears to hold the cities. At this point the best we could do is a raze campaign at the beginning. If we destroy South African coastal cities that would make life much easier. That would greatly reduce the number of future ships interfering with getting troops over.

A few workers from razing those cities would be a big help. Worker generation from enslavers has been terrible.

I don't see taking out Arabia as a viable open. The AI loves to take control of the primary land lass it is on. That is probably why a war started so soon. We take out Arabia, and South Africa *will* come after us.

 

[Elephantium]

I'd be okay attacking S. Africa if we can amass ~20 attackers, plus ~5 Spears for defense. Yes, even if half those are Archers. We can land them in the desert W of Johannesburg and take the hill after declaring war. We can sit there for maybe 5 turns to fight the Zulu army, then march on Johannesburg.

If we wait for better units than our Archers, I fear we'll slip too far behind to expand effectively. OTOH, we have, what, half a dozen attack units (not counting Enslavers)? We'll need a bit to build up those forces.

We can make 1 boat per turn in the capital, or a ground unit every other turn. Goteborg and Norrkoping should get to the same point soon. That's 3 units every other turn -- which all fit on one boat, so maybe 6-7 turns of focused unit production.

 

[LKendter]

I'd be okay attacking S. Africa if we can amass ~20 attackers, plus ~5 Spears for defense.

With walls, and total junk archers, I want a lot more than 20 attackers. 5 spears isn't enough to hold cities. Unless we are planning a raze campaign, we need more spears to keep cities. The only good news here South Africa lacks iron and horses. We won't be fighting against superior units.
No matter what I won't support a Zulu war while we are fighting Japan. We can't afford to lose loaded transports to Japan.

Our exploring long-ships need to get back home. Once the war starts, we need empty ships to fight South African ships with.

Sadly, Chivalry and Royal Tournament (AI fails to build) is still far away. We can really use knights of the realm this game.

Don't forget the slow tech pace of this game. I think it is due to isolated AI civs. There are plenty of backwards civs out there to keep trading with. The challenge is several are TO backwards.

Egypt will give us elephant training and $21 for seafaring. Please make that trade.


IMO what would help our expansion the most is a settler generating wonder.

 

[Elephantium]

Agreed @ making peace with Japan first, but I'm not worried about losing loaded transports. Longships can go from Uppsala or Linkoping to Johannesburg in 1 turn, or from Uppsala to the tile next to Cape Town (and offload the units same-turn).

How many units do you think we need to defeat the Zulu field army? Whatever the number is, we should have a target. I'd hate to delay long enough that we're facing Zulu Pikemen with our Archers.

A settler-generating wonder would have been nice, but those are all gone now AFAIK Expansion will have to be via the iron price.

 

[LKendter]

How many units do you think we need to defeat the Zulu field army? Whatever the number is, we should have a target. I'd hate to delay long enough that we're facing Zulu Pikemen with our Archers.

The only advantage we have is the initial starting unit wave is gone. If they don't sign peace with Arabia, hopefully there troop count is NOT moving up.
There are 7 cities. Several have walls.
My gut says least 30 archers and 10 spears, and all of our war chariots and catapults. We will need at least 3 cities able to concentrate on units. Even then I'm only marginally conformable. Archers suck big time IMO.

Once South Africa is gone I want to jump right onto Arabia before they get strong.

A settler-generating wonder would have been nice, but those are all gone now AFAIK Expansion will have to be via the iron price.

I thinking toward the future. We have several shield heavy coastal towns being built up.

I'd hate to delay long enough that we're facing Zulu Pikemen with our Archers.

They have NO iron. Hopefully nobody will trade it to them.

 

[Jersey Joe]

We will have basically the same troops that the Arabs and Zulus will have with the exception of Camel Riders and Horse Archers. The only Horse resource I can see has yet to be hooked up so they are not building Horse Archers.
I don't like the idea of razing their cities, we need more city to generate more gold and troops.
We need Marauding Tactics so we can build Berserkers which gives us an edge going against iron poor nations. (Bodkin Arrows and Medieval Combat would also help us field better troops).

We should launch our attack from Linkoping and either land right next to Johannesburg and capture it the next turn. or use Berserkers in an amphibious assault. Though my limited experience with amphibious assaults has been I think I got more casualties than if I assaulted from land.
The Zulu may not be able to react immediately to the attack, their troops are down in the south fighting the Arabs. Which might give us enough time to ferry across more troops before the Zulu can attack.

 

[Civinator]

I think I got more casualties than if I assaulted from land.

Amphibious attacks have a bonus of 25%: https://apolyton.net/forum/miscella...aa/122531-au-mod-amphibious-units#post3726992

From all your CCM succession games that I have watched, in my eyes this is the toughest challenge. I think you will urgently need those amphibious attacks.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Looked good.
Do the trade for Elephant Riding.

IBT: Carthage gets Great Library

Early: Capital needs more happiness so going for a Admin Center.
Sank Japanese boat

Ship tried to find land but sank.

We sank some Japan boats. Got elite Longship.

Mid: Japan land a chariot which we kill.

Decided to stop at turn 120. I don't think I will be playing tomorrow.

Notes:
One of the two Japanese sets of boats has landed. The other has not.

 

[LKendter]

Can we get peace yet with Japan? We are gaining nothing from the war.

ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Elephantium
Greebley
Jersey Joe (up)

 

[Greebley]

We sunk more of their boats. They may be more willing for peace now.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Greebley, good to see you are mining the hills.

I got it.

We can make peace with Japan, it will cost us Tobacco and 60 gold. If we make peace will we lose some "war" happiness?

 

[Elephantium]

Ugh, it rankles to have to pay for peace. OTOH, we have tons of Tobacco, so that's not too bad.