LK175, South Africa, AWE
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
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@Elephantium, it looks like Greebley couldn't take. Are you going to start now?
Holidays always seem to slow the game down
Holidays always seem to slow the game down
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Yep, I've properly got it now.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Rough set.
Pre-turn:
Looking around, I MM a bit
Berlin now grows in 1
Pretoria now grows in 1
Cape Town tweaks assignments, growth still in 2
Science slider to 20%, Sail still due in 2.
Generally, we have kind of a happy-faces problem. I'm not going to kick the lux slider just yet, but I might have to in 2-3 turns.
IBT:
Lots of Turks come out of the fog N of Zimbabwe.
T1, 1075 AD:
Windhoek settled next to the Horses.
All troops fall back to the Elephants to muster for the upcoming battle.
Sliders to 7.1.2, Sail still due in 1.
IBT:
The Turks approach the Elephant herd.
Sail > Maths
T2, 1100 AD:
Battle of the Elephant Grounds:
Impi dies
Impi dies
African Swordsman kills Chariot, promotes
African Swordsman narrowly kills Chariot
African Swordsman dies
African Swordsman forces a Camel to retreat
African Swordsman kills Camel Rider
Enslaver kills Mamluk Horsearcher
African Swordsman narrowly dies
Enslaver dies to redlined Camel Rider
Enslaver kills Camel Rider, promotes
Chariot kills Camel Rider...revealing two more Chariots. Ugh.
Sliders to 4.4.2, Maths due in 4.
IBT:
Disaster! Turkey counterattacks at the Elephant Grounds:
Enemy chariot kills our chariot...and a Numidian on the next tile. Wait, these guys have blitz?
Second chariot runs over the second Numidian on the tile...capturing several Workers! They run off to the west.
T3, 1125 AD:
Enslaver scouts...nothing.
Enslaver kills redlined Chariot. Now there are 4 fast enemy units visible. Gulp.
IBT:
We lose 1 Enslaver to a Chariot
India comes out of the fog with a Medieval Naval Explorer near Berlin.
We get word that the Indians are building the Arsenal. Uh-oh.
T4, 1150 AD:
We declare war on the impressive Indians.
African Swordsman forces Turkish Camel Rider to retreat
African Swordsman kills Chariot, promotes to vet
IBT:
Enemy chariot dies to Numidian, finally proving that these guys ARE capable of winning a fight!
T5, 1175 AD:
Scouting reveals a redlined Chariot N of the Elephants, an enemy Archer 2 tiles away, and a pair of Punic WarElephants from Carthage who can reach our stack. We're bracing ourselves...
Sliders to 7.1.2; Maths still due in 1.
IBT:
Punic WE narrowly kills Numidian
Punic WE retreats from 2/3 Numidian
Maths > Trade (trying to rush to Republic; we need the cataphracts)
Sabi Sand switches to Siege Workshop
T6, 1200 AD:
African Swordsman kills Punic WarElephant
Enslaver captures Punic WarElephant
African Swordsman kills Turkish Archer
Sliders to 2.7.1 to get Trade in 4 @ -59gpt. I switch a couple of cities back to Wealth; now we're -46gpt.
IBT:
Camel Rider runs down one of our African Swordsman -- the one who killed the Archer last turn.
Brisbane has completed Hagia Sophia.
T7, 1225 AD, T150 in the game:
Sliders to 3.6.1, Trade due in 3 at -13 gpt.
Scouting reveals 5 units that might be able to attack, but 2 are Siege-Bow types. They might be slow; I don't remember their exact details. The units at the Elephant grounds might be in trouble, but reinforcements are on the way.
Pre-turn:
Looking around, I MM a bit
Berlin now grows in 1
Pretoria now grows in 1
Cape Town tweaks assignments, growth still in 2
Science slider to 20%, Sail still due in 2.
Generally, we have kind of a happy-faces problem. I'm not going to kick the lux slider just yet, but I might have to in 2-3 turns.
IBT:
Lots of Turks come out of the fog N of Zimbabwe.
T1, 1075 AD:
Windhoek settled next to the Horses.
All troops fall back to the Elephants to muster for the upcoming battle.
Sliders to 7.1.2, Sail still due in 1.
IBT:
The Turks approach the Elephant herd.
Sail > Maths
T2, 1100 AD:
Battle of the Elephant Grounds:
Impi dies
Impi dies
African Swordsman kills Chariot, promotes
African Swordsman narrowly kills Chariot
African Swordsman dies
African Swordsman forces a Camel to retreat
African Swordsman kills Camel Rider
Enslaver kills Mamluk Horsearcher
African Swordsman narrowly dies
Enslaver dies to redlined Camel Rider
Enslaver kills Camel Rider, promotes
Chariot kills Camel Rider...revealing two more Chariots. Ugh.
Sliders to 4.4.2, Maths due in 4.
IBT:
Disaster! Turkey counterattacks at the Elephant Grounds:
Enemy chariot kills our chariot...and a Numidian on the next tile. Wait, these guys have blitz?
Second chariot runs over the second Numidian on the tile...capturing several Workers! They run off to the west.
T3, 1125 AD:
Enslaver scouts...nothing.
Enslaver kills redlined Chariot. Now there are 4 fast enemy units visible. Gulp.
IBT:
We lose 1 Enslaver to a Chariot
India comes out of the fog with a Medieval Naval Explorer near Berlin.
We get word that the Indians are building the Arsenal. Uh-oh.
T4, 1150 AD:
We declare war on the impressive Indians.
African Swordsman forces Turkish Camel Rider to retreat
African Swordsman kills Chariot, promotes to vet
IBT:
Enemy chariot dies to Numidian, finally proving that these guys ARE capable of winning a fight!
T5, 1175 AD:
Scouting reveals a redlined Chariot N of the Elephants, an enemy Archer 2 tiles away, and a pair of Punic WarElephants from Carthage who can reach our stack. We're bracing ourselves...
Sliders to 7.1.2; Maths still due in 1.
IBT:
Punic WE narrowly kills Numidian
Punic WE retreats from 2/3 Numidian
Maths > Trade (trying to rush to Republic; we need the cataphracts)
Sabi Sand switches to Siege Workshop
T6, 1200 AD:
African Swordsman kills Punic WarElephant
Enslaver captures Punic WarElephant
African Swordsman kills Turkish Archer
Sliders to 2.7.1 to get Trade in 4 @ -59gpt. I switch a couple of cities back to Wealth; now we're -46gpt.
IBT:
Camel Rider runs down one of our African Swordsman -- the one who killed the Archer last turn.
Brisbane has completed Hagia Sophia.
T7, 1225 AD, T150 in the game:
Sliders to 3.6.1, Trade due in 3 at -13 gpt.
Scouting reveals 5 units that might be able to attack, but 2 are Siege-Bow types. They might be slow; I don't remember their exact details. The units at the Elephant grounds might be in trouble, but reinforcements are on the way.
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- Messages
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We added a 4th enemy. :eeek:
IIRC the arsenal is in the next age. If so, we are seriously behind in tech.
Starting to feel like jumping to emperor was too much if the AIs are getting that far ahead in tech.
The loss of some workers was a major loss.
The big challenge is where are more AI cities? With Carthage and Turkey coming from the same direction I would have expected to see some cities near the elephant area.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)
IIRC the arsenal is in the next age. If so, we are seriously behind in tech.
Starting to feel like jumping to emperor was too much if the AIs are getting that far ahead in tech.
The loss of some workers was a major loss.
The big challenge is where are more AI cities? With Carthage and Turkey coming from the same direction I would have expected to see some cities near the elephant area.
ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I'm super scared of India's initial push. Once they arrive...oof, we might lose Leipzig before we can blunt their advance.
Based on the stream of units coming at us, we'll need a half-dozen Cataphracts massed to be able to make progress. I thought we were in a good position until I lost the workers -- losing 3 military units to 2 attackers over one IBT is...pretty discouraging.
Based on the stream of units coming at us, we'll need a half-dozen Cataphracts massed to be able to make progress. I thought we were in a good position until I lost the workers -- losing 3 military units to 2 attackers over one IBT is...pretty discouraging.
Looks like a good call
I didn't even consider that path. Maybe we shouldn't have talked ourselves out of going for the Great Library. If we had gone for Writing -> Literature instead of for City State we probably could have built the GL.
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Having to push toward Cataphracts is bad news. We are falling behind in building development but now must take a path to improve military.
I loaded the game and confirmed Arsenal is a wonder from the beginning of the next age. I'm confused by the report that India completed it. When I loaded the game, it says Turkey is building it. Turkey probably is the tech leader since they have a ton of cash. Not the civ to fight this early.
I've had a bad feeling about the game since I felt cities needed to go on wealth. Wealth this early is a losing situation.
I don't like the fact the Carthage tends to be one of the strongest early civs. Not a good one to be fighting. We have 11 cities. Carthage has 11 cities. To compete we need to be LARGER than the AI civs. Turkey and the Aztecs have 8 cities each. I don't see how we will get out of our severe tech deficit.
I made a mistake not waiting for that last German city to grow border before taking. One more city would have helped.
I agree with Joe that we made a major mistake talking ourselves out of Great Library earlier. If we lose this one, that will be the reason. Lack of early contact discouraged me, but I didn't think about the extra settlers. A couple more cities would make me feel a lot better about the game.
So far, we have only seen ships by former Germany. Is that telling us something about the map shape? My gut says 100% troops toward Carthage and Turkey.
If this fails, I'm willing to start again back at monarchy. I probably threw away viable games when rolling for a start. I was too scared of those extra units that emperor gets. Multiple early contacts scared me to much.
I loaded the game and confirmed Arsenal is a wonder from the beginning of the next age. I'm confused by the report that India completed it. When I loaded the game, it says Turkey is building it. Turkey probably is the tech leader since they have a ton of cash. Not the civ to fight this early.
I've had a bad feeling about the game since I felt cities needed to go on wealth. Wealth this early is a losing situation.
I don't like the fact the Carthage tends to be one of the strongest early civs. Not a good one to be fighting. We have 11 cities. Carthage has 11 cities. To compete we need to be LARGER than the AI civs. Turkey and the Aztecs have 8 cities each. I don't see how we will get out of our severe tech deficit.
I made a mistake not waiting for that last German city to grow border before taking. One more city would have helped.
I agree with Joe that we made a major mistake talking ourselves out of Great Library earlier. If we lose this one, that will be the reason. Lack of early contact discouraged me, but I didn't think about the extra settlers. A couple more cities would make me feel a lot better about the game.
So far, we have only seen ships by former Germany. Is that telling us something about the map shape? My gut says 100% troops toward Carthage and Turkey.
If this fails, I'm willing to start again back at monarchy. I probably threw away viable games when rolling for a start. I was too scared of those extra units that emperor gets. Multiple early contacts scared me to much.
If this fails, I would like to try emperor again, but go for the Great Library almost from the beginning. Maybe even the first 2 techs we learn.
I got it. Sorry for the delay
The comments above reminded me of something. I used to play awe with 30 civs for standard civ. To make it playable I remember having to slow down tech a lot (played with a tweak to increase all tech costs). The player needed more time to capture a bunch of cities to be able to keep up.
We also used to play continents because otherwise you need to fight 20+ civs at once.
We also used to play continents because otherwise you need to fight 20+ civs at once.
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We've beaten AWM more than once with one giant Pangaea. However, IIRC, we didn't stop expanding. Lack of new cities is killing us hear. We need to find either Turkey or Carthage cities and start capturing. Without that, we have no chance.
We also need to get larger to ensure we have access to coal, rubber, saltpeter, and the other later game critical resources.
We also need to get larger to ensure we have access to coal, rubber, saltpeter, and the other later game critical resources.
Remind me, if we meet a new civ do we allow a tech trade before declaring war? It is an optional awe rule.
I often don't but it is the 2 dead end techs of Elephants and Camels for Monarchy. Its two tech we would not own otherwise. Elephants might have some use but needs a colony. For camels we spotted our first desert.
Note we found a city border but it is a civ we haven't met which is highly unexpected. Not sure why they haven't been exploring.
I often don't but it is the 2 dead end techs of Elephants and Camels for Monarchy. Its two tech we would not own otherwise. Elephants might have some use but needs a colony. For camels we spotted our first desert.
Note we found a city border but it is a civ we haven't met which is highly unexpected. Not sure why they haven't been exploring.
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NO tech trading
Yep, the tech cost was raised to 650.
Also, the optimal number of cities (corruption) was changed to 28.
This has to be changed for all world sizes due to a bug, IIRC.
Preturn: Switched wealth cities to military. If we have a scary rush coming then we need to be ready.
IBT: Lose a Numidean to more fast Turkish. There are 4 fast units near us now.
Berbers land an Elephant next to our city.
India has boats on the other end. Might also land a unit.
Manage to kill nearby fast units with one retreat, but lose an Enslaver. We do gain a Worker.
IBT: Two more fast units spotted.
I275 AD: Decide to advance. We need more towns for unit support. Just sitting here will lose for sure.
IBT: Turkey fast units are done but Berber shows up with 2 elephants.
1300 AD:
Loss of 3 swordsmen vs a single Elephant. Get a Worker.
For tech going for Riding first at only 4 turns. I think we need more fast units as retreats are becoming problematic and we need to get construction before Republic.
1310 AD: Minor fights this turn
1320 AD: Approaching fast Berber elephants. We need to retreat this turn.
IBT: Portugal was destroyed.
We also lose some Numidean due to Berber fast units getting first attack.
1330 AD: Kill the units nearby losing a sword. Gain a worker.
We can now build a road each turn to advance.
1340 AD: Some more loss but our force is not in any danger.
Construction dropped 2 turns despite raising Lux due to market places coming in.
We are running 2-6-2 at -45 gold but now have 575 gold due to riding being cheap.
IBT: India kept changing cities for the Arsenal so Oceana got it
Two landings near Bloemfontein
1350 AD: Horseman fails to do a HP vs landed Ratha (Indian) so it will get to attack.
1360 AD: Find Indochina and declare war.
This is annoying - They are the closest civ to us.
IBT: Terrible luck on this turn. We lose every battle so badly all Chariots can attack twice. Turkish Camels also show up so we lose several Numidean.
1370 AD: Not very happy with this turn. We lose too many units and it is difficult to cover our units. If either Turkey or Indochina show up with a bunch of fast units it could get bad. The only plus is that unit costs are definitely less.
This is also my last turn so the next player gets to find out.
I upgraded a clan. I think I would use it along the path toward Indochina despite that not being the best land. It will connect new Indochina cities if we can get them.
Notes:
Horsemen are getting close enough to the front to do something.
Feel like the supply of Numidean is running low. Switched Sabi Sand to make more. Note there is now a northern road to skip the river jumping near the capital for getting to the front faster.
Construction next turn. Bloemfontein, Hamburg, Berlin, and soon Leipzig will all need aquaducts. I would switch all but leipzig to complete them ASAP. Leipzig can likely complete the market first.
One last comment. We have no archers which I am now thinking was an error on our part. I just switched a city to them. They are good on the front for defense to do a point of damage so we can win more of the attack 3 vs def 2 combat - or at least keep them from attacking twice.
IBT: Lose a Numidean to more fast Turkish. There are 4 fast units near us now.
Berbers land an Elephant next to our city.
India has boats on the other end. Might also land a unit.
Manage to kill nearby fast units with one retreat, but lose an Enslaver. We do gain a Worker.
IBT: Two more fast units spotted.
I275 AD: Decide to advance. We need more towns for unit support. Just sitting here will lose for sure.
IBT: Turkey fast units are done but Berber shows up with 2 elephants.
1300 AD:
Loss of 3 swordsmen vs a single Elephant. Get a Worker.
For tech going for Riding first at only 4 turns. I think we need more fast units as retreats are becoming problematic and we need to get construction before Republic.
1310 AD: Minor fights this turn
1320 AD: Approaching fast Berber elephants. We need to retreat this turn.
IBT: Portugal was destroyed.
We also lose some Numidean due to Berber fast units getting first attack.
1330 AD: Kill the units nearby losing a sword. Gain a worker.
We can now build a road each turn to advance.
1340 AD: Some more loss but our force is not in any danger.
Construction dropped 2 turns despite raising Lux due to market places coming in.
We are running 2-6-2 at -45 gold but now have 575 gold due to riding being cheap.
IBT: India kept changing cities for the Arsenal so Oceana got it
Two landings near Bloemfontein
1350 AD: Horseman fails to do a HP vs landed Ratha (Indian) so it will get to attack.
1360 AD: Find Indochina and declare war.
This is annoying - They are the closest civ to us.
IBT: Terrible luck on this turn. We lose every battle so badly all Chariots can attack twice. Turkish Camels also show up so we lose several Numidean.
1370 AD: Not very happy with this turn. We lose too many units and it is difficult to cover our units. If either Turkey or Indochina show up with a bunch of fast units it could get bad. The only plus is that unit costs are definitely less.
This is also my last turn so the next player gets to find out.
I upgraded a clan. I think I would use it along the path toward Indochina despite that not being the best land. It will connect new Indochina cities if we can get them.
Notes:
Horsemen are getting close enough to the front to do something.
Feel like the supply of Numidean is running low. Switched Sabi Sand to make more. Note there is now a northern road to skip the river jumping near the capital for getting to the front faster.
Construction next turn. Bloemfontein, Hamburg, Berlin, and soon Leipzig will all need aquaducts. I would switch all but leipzig to complete them ASAP. Leipzig can likely complete the market first.
One last comment. We have no archers which I am now thinking was an error on our part. I just switched a city to them. They are good on the front for defense to do a point of damage so we can win more of the attack 3 vs def 2 combat - or at least keep them from attacking twice.
One final thing: I think the Indochina rush of units may mean we need to fall back as they will have their fast units including Elephants. Finding a new civ like that was a fairly unfortunate result that will delay any advance.
However, if we don't advance a loss is guaranteed. Stronger and stronger units will show up and overwhelm our small civilization. I have seen this a lot in losing AWE games. This one is likely a loss but we should play it out to see how CCM3 AWE turns out (Edit: At least until it is very clear playing more is pointless).
However, if we don't advance a loss is guaranteed. Stronger and stronger units will show up and overwhelm our small civilization. I have seen this a lot in losing AWE games. This one is likely a loss but we should play it out to see how CCM3 AWE turns out (Edit: At least until it is very clear playing more is pointless).
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