(LOCKED) Going for Gold: Buildings

[Owlbebach]

I mentioned the ability to buy modern units in my post, which I agree is a huge advantage the seaport has over the station, which grants no equivilant military bonus. I don’t see how pointing this out makes the seaport weaker, though, can you explain your argument?

I meant weaker in terms of yields. So that you kinda have to choose ships vs yields. If Sea Port is stronger in yields - it is a no brainer choice to build them in every coastal city

 

[chicorbeef]

I know that this thing is locked, but can I propose a tiny tweak?

The Windmill's +1 food to Granaries/Grocers is too little too late imo and is just unnecessary text clutter. What if we removed it, took one Food away from the Watermill, moved it to Engineering, (see my "Moving Horsemen to Classical Era" thread to get some reasoning...basically I want to switch Masonry with Military Theory so I can put Horsemen in Classical Era, and I don't want Watermills in Ancient Era), and made it +1 prod. per 3 citizens instead of +1 per 4?

And then add +1 base food to Aqueducts/Grocers.

 

[Bromar1]

I'll bring up agri-business again. I think it should be changed to buff more terrain types. The flat food is fine, but instead of +3 food on pastures and farms, it would be more consistently good if it was something like +2 food on fishing boats, farms and pastures and +1 food on plantations and camps

 

[Owlbebach]

I'll bring up agri-business again. I think it should be changed to buff more terrain types. The flat food is fine, but instead of +3 food on pastures and farms, it would be more consistently good if it was something like +2 food on fishing boats, farms and pastures and +1 food on plantations and camps

Maybe also +2 food on Villages, Mines and Lumbermills?

 

[matlajs]

and 10 from uranium ?

 

[tu_79]

Extra food on plantations makes sense, the others not much. Thinking of this as using back all those horses for farming purposes, that'll improve everything related to food production: farms, stables, camps and plantations, but not in the same degree (I can't see how it could apply to other improvements). From a thematic point of view, farms and stables (+2 food), camps and plantations (+1 food).

 

[Owlbebach]

Extra food on plantations makes sense, the others not much. Thinking of this as using back all those horses for farming purposes, that'll improve everything related to food production: farms, stables, camps and plantations, but not in the same degree (I can't see how it could apply to other improvements). From a thematic point of view, farms and stables (+2 food), camps and plantations (+1 food).

Plantations with Silk, Dyes, Incense and Perfume too?

 

[tu_79]

Plantations with Silk, Dyes, Incense and Perfume too?

Horses too? Technically you could breed horses for food, but yet.

 

[Bromar1]

Extra food on plantations makes sense, the others not much. Thinking of this as using back all those horses for farming purposes, that'll improve everything related to food production: farms, stables, camps and plantations, but not in the same degree (I can't see how it could apply to other improvements). From a thematic point of view, farms and stables (+2 food), camps and plantations (+1 food).

Just because there is a tractor in the building icon doesn't mean that it can only be linked to land based features. Agriculture is very broad and by that point in the game (late industrial) there are so many different abstractions that there's not much realism left. I mean how are windmills (really a medieval or earlier building) supposed to increase building speed by 15%?

Buffing stables still wouldn't help because if I have stables, I most likely have a bunch of pastures already. Such a late, expensive building should be more universally useful, and thus should be less terrain dependent

 

[CrazyG]

Such a late, expensive building should be more universally useful, and thus should be less terrain dependent

What's wrong with a late building being terrain dependent?

Agriculture is an extremely powerful building already. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument it should affect mines or quarries, mines do not produce food. I don't think it should affect camps or plantations if it doesn't hit other luxuries too.

 

[pineappledan]

I still really like my idea of the city getting +2 for every farm and pasture within 3 tiles of the city, using the same mechanics as observatory uses to count mountains, but used to count improvements instead of terrain. That way, your citizens wouldn't actually have to work the farms for you to get a bonus from them.

• This models the urbanization/mechanization of agriculture in the industrial age. Lots of corporate farms, but very few farmers, propping up large population centers.
• It would make maxing out your improvements on all your arable land around a city a goal, even if you don't have all the citizens needed to work them all. Once again, this would mirror the rampant clearing of land for farming and pasture which persists today in some places.
• It would reward you for "thickening" up your cities, settling new cities in controlled territory, since farms which are workable by multiple cities could be double-counted
• It would give your workers a lot more to do after the big early-industrial railroad push

The downsides are a) it's new code, and b) it's fairly intense new code, since you have to iterate every tile on every city with an agribusiness (though the issue is the same as observatories which are around for longer, and you could mitigate this by increasing the resource requirement to 3 horses, making agribusinesses more rare)

 

[Owlbebach]

I don't think you can make a reasonable argument it should affect mines or quarries, mines do not produce food.

That was sarcasm

 

[pineappledan]

My dream system is thus, and yes, I realize this is likely never going to happen:
Agribusiness: +2 for every farm and pasture within 3 tiles of a city (currently +3 to farms and pastures, but requires they are worked by citizens)
Zoo: +1 to nearby Forests and Jungles (currently +1)
Ecology Technology unlocks New improvement: Nature preserve

Nature Park:

• Can be built on forest, Jungle and Marsh
• 1 worker turn to build
• +5 tourism (or maybe +4 with +1 for every 2 adjacent, like farm)
• Does not have any graphics, so all it appears to do is remove any pre-existing improvement

So in super late game you can set up nature preserves in terrain features you haven't cleared for the entire game. Civs focused on other victory conditions would clear all their forests and marshes for more farms in Industrial. Players focused on a cultural victory would have to make a choice whether to clear natural features for food early, or preserve their natural surroundings for a large burst of tourism at the end game.

 

[CrabHelmet]

I love that idea! Nature preserves should have adjacent effects as well - to encourage larger reserves. They could also have adjacency effects for Natural Wonders, encouraging you to leave those Wonders in their natural condition. You could have them have +1 base tourism, +1 tourism for every adjacent Preserve, and +4 tourism for an adjacent Natural Wonder.

Unconvinced they should necessarily be restricted to Forest, Jungle, or Marsh though. Some of the North American reserves are the most beautiful places I have seen in the world, and they're Plains in Civ terms. I think it would better to make them buildable on any tile, but they *cannot* replace existing improvements. Once the pristine environment is gone, it's gone.

 

[CrabHelmet]

Honestly I'm actually besotted with that idea. It's so simple, requires no extra graphics or anything that complex, and adds a fun subsystem to the game. Even if Gazebo doesn't add it, someone should totally do a modmod.

 

[YukiN]

I have the feeling Watermill comes one tech too late. Mining is one of the earliest techs to grab, especially for civs starting with a mining lux. Masonry is a whole era off. Wells and watermills are some of the earliest buildings you build in a city, sometimes the very first.

I am willing to defer to those with more experience with VP on this.

 

[tu_79]

I have the feeling Watermill comes one tech too late. Mining is one of the earliest techs to grab, especially for civs starting with a mining lux. Masonry is a whole era off. Wells and watermills are some of the earliest buildings you build in a city, sometimes the very first.

I am willing to defer to those with more experience with VP on this.

Fresh water is too good otherwise. Baths. Especially with Tradition.

 

[Galbias]

I still feel like Hydro Plants are pretty weak. They don't boost as many tiles as Wind Plants and Food is a subpar yield at the late point in the game they appear. Some extra flat yields over Wind Plants (maybe +5-10 of Food/Prod/Sci) would help make it a decent building even if there aren't that many river tiles available to be worked.

 

[YukiN]

I still feel like Hydro Plants are pretty weak. They don't boost as many tiles as Wind Plants and Food is a subpar yield at the late point in the game they appear. Some extra flat yields over Wind Plants (maybe +5-10 of Food/Prod/Sci) would help make it a decent building even if there aren't that many river tiles available to be worked.

I believe this is because river cities are stronger in general, and this is somewhat of a late-game offset. I'm not super concerned mostly because by that stage in the game specialist yields are good enough terrain matters less and less.

 

[CrazyG]

River cities can build wind plants, I think. It makes the Hydro Plant irrelevant outside of floodplains.