(LOCKED) Going for Gold: Terrain / Improvements

[Stalker0]

Going for Gold: These threads are designed to lock down elements of the mod for the gold release. In other words, if approved, no further changes are expected for this item.

This thread will debate terrain, and the improvements that go on top of it.

The question is: Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Important Notes:

1) There is no such thing as perfect balance.
2) The key is that each element is strong enough to have a niche, even if that niche is for very specific playstyles.
3) If you vote no in the poll, please comment on the elements you think are in an unreasonable state of balance.
4) If you vote yes, there is really no need to comment. The poll is the key note.

 

[Mad Madigan]

After all of the yield shifting for Herbalists, Forests, and Jungles I feel that Jungles are in a weak place in comparison to Forests. Unless you're a Civ with a UC that gives a boost to Jungles (Maya, Iroquois, Brazil, and to a lesser extent Siam) it currently seems best to chop all non-resource Jungles at the earliest opportunity. The yields for Logging Camps (Jungle) are worse than that of Lumber Mills (Forest) because the trade of for with Camps isn't a fair trade, even taking into account the 1 from Universities. My suggestion would be to bump the initial yield from Camps by 1 or bump the yield from the tile at a later tech (Scientific Theory would make sense).

Otherwise I feel all terrain and improvements are in a pretty good state of balance.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Logging Camps should come earlier as well.

Arsenals could buff Citadel Yields in a similar way that Factories boost Manufactories.

 

[Bascule2000]

After all of the yield shifting for Herbalists, Forests, and Jungles I feel that Jungles are in a weak place in comparison to Forests..

You're right, but I think it should be that way. Medieval England used to be 90% forest, now it's 10%. Jungles may be great at pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere, but they don't do much for nearby cities. I like the way the game increasingly incentivises agriculture as it progresses.

 

[Omen of Peace]

With the recent boosts to Lumbermills (both via Techs, and via triangles), I've found... that it's farms which are now underwhelming compared to other Improvements. I believe that farms get boosted less throughout the eras; and in any case while food is useful, production is overall better.

I don't think we need to boost farms; I would perhaps nerf Lumbermills just a bit (-1 or -2 production in total, but impacting mostly the late eras - one or two of the +2 tech boosts can be lowered to +1).

 

[phantomaxl1207]

With the recent boosts to Lumbermills (both via Techs, and via triangles), I've found... that it's farms which are now underwhelming compared to other Improvements. I believe that farms get boosted less throughout the eras; and in any case while food is useful, production is overall better.

I don't think we need to boost farms; I would perhaps nerf Lumbermills just a bit (-1 or -2 production in total, but impacting mostly the late eras - one or two of the +2 tech boosts can be lowered to +1).

Farms come MUCH earlier than Lumber Mills, by 1.5 Eras. Farms have to wait till Industrial for Agribusiness for an extra Boost, meanwhile Forests have the Workshop.

Grass Farm Triangles will give 4 , +1 if any Tile is Fresh Water. Grass Forest Lumber Mill Triangles will give 2.5 and 3 , 0.5 is when working 2 Forest Tiles with Herbalist for 1 more . Factoring the 1st Tech Boost, Farm Triangles will give 5 and Lumber Triangles will give 2.5 , 6 , and 1 , Workshop granting 1 and 1 . Factoring the 2nd Tech Boost, Farm Triangles will give 9 , +3 from Agribusiness and Lumber Mills will give 2.5 , 8 and1 and 1 more with Zoos.

Can't really help that > , that is just how the game turns out. Too much = .

On another note, I found that lone Villages do not scale well; as in those not on Roads/ RailRoads. They stay at 2 and 1 . They have lost their Tech Boosts.

 

[azum4roll]

I never build villages on non-roads anymore. They just won't be worked at all. And then after Industrial even those with trade routes passing are not worked most of the time.