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(LOCKED) Going for Gold: Wonders

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 23, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed Jun 6, 2018.
  1. Yes

    93.3%
  2. No

    6.7%
  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I might be wrong, but right now I only consider Oracle when playing tall AND I didn't build a Temple in capital.
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  2. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So it’s just fine then:)
     
  3. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    I would say that Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is very niche and not usually worth rushing unless you have stoneworks luxuries around your capital or are playing china. WLTKD is hard to get in the early game and generally not always reliable or predictable later either
     
  4. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    I disagree, in a Tradition capital it is quite powerful long-term when you get a permanent WLTKD in your capital.

    Also, a free Stone Works can be useful in many situations.
     
    tu_79 likes this.
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I know this says locked, but how people feel about giving Oracle a great person point?

    The wonder was basically stripped of all its yields as we attempted to make 1 free social balanced, which we couldn't. I propose it gets +1 great scientist point, like it used to have.
     
    Mitch.sp likes this.
  6. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I can almost swear it has 1 Great Scientist point... or am I mentally back in the past playing VP versions that bite dust? If so it should get the great scintist point bakc
     
  7. Legen

    Legen King

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    It has the GS point. Also a -25% iiliteracy in all cities.

    oracle.PNG
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Well I'm dumb
     
  9. Legen

    Legen King

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    We still skip this wonder, though, maybe it should give more yields?

    Like an extra 500 :c5faith:, it is well timed to aid in enhancing a religion. The religious boost even works well with the free temple that it comes with.
     
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    If you compare to Great Library it seems solid to me. 500 :c5science: is often worth more than a free tech. Free temple instead of free library.

    It costs more, but you get 500 :c5culture: for that. I'd add like a point or two of :c5culture: if it needs more. Also its extremely powerful if you manage to enter medieval before you build it, you basically get two Oracles.
     
    SupTo and pineappledan like this.
  11. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    I like the Oracle, I don't think it needs any buffs.
     
    SupTo and CrazyG like this.
  12. Legen

    Legen King

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    I think the matter is that every other technology on the second column of Classical era has a wonder: Parthenon, Great Wall, Angkor Wat and Colossus. And they tend to cater to a lot of strategies better than Oracle. That's why we skip it, we usually want some other wonder more than we want Oracle.

    I don't think the effect is bad itself, I just think the wonder doesn't fit our usual plan better than the other wonders do. Maybe it just needs to change its purpose.
     
  13. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I really don't know about Oracle. On paper it seems good but every time i think about it in the game - it never seems like something i really want to have. I never wanted to go for it, but since it belongs to high priority tech it is usually like "okay i'll try to build it, if i fail - i don't care"

    Yeah, by the way, Great Library is a peace of crap. But for some reason AI is so obsessed with it that i almost forgot about its existense. I never ever built it over the past 3 years i think.
     
  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Thread is locked, so you know my vote :)
     
  15. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    I can't remember ever having built the Great Library. No idea if it is bad or good, just, the AI loooooooves it. I've never been in a position to get it!
     
  16. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    The Great Library may be underpowered, it may not be. It is not a piece of crap either way.
    You remind me of this guy I know. He has never eaten frog, yet he insists he knows how it tastes, and that he won't like it.

    I can't really take your opinion very seriously on Oracle or Library because you just told me you never built them! I haven't built the Great Library in a long time either, however it seems like a decent wonder to me. Its barely more expensive than a normal library, which it provides. The biggest weakness is just that for single player, the AI loves it.

    Does it require 4 or 5 social policies? It may be more interesting at 5, so its locked by culture instead of science. The issue I see with it is in order to beat the AI, I have to build it very quickly. So quickly that I am most likely only getting a second column tech like fishing, military theory or construction. At that stage its like worth like 3 or 4 turns of science. It would be a good wonder if I could use it on something like mathematics or drama and poetry instead.
     
  17. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Ehhhhmmmm.... could you please do me a favor and replace the word "frog" with the word "poo" it your sentence? From the point of view of formal logic it should mean exactly the same, right?

    You haven't build this wonder for a reason i assume? There are many reasons such as:
    (1) you need to rush to it very hard to get it;
    (2) risk of not getting it is really high and if you tried and failed - you are in a bad spot;
    (3) you can unlock only a crapy tech with it
    And when i say that it is a peace of crap - i take all this reasons into accounts too. Saying that wonder is good only because it provides useful stuff is wrong. There are cost, not only benefits, you need to invest something in order to get it.
    Building a colony on Mars is possible and it will really push science and knowledge of all humans to a next level. But there are cost for this and they are so high that we have to admit that building a colony on Mars is a VERY stupid idea.
     
  18. CppMaster

    CppMaster King

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    How so? Isn't it necessary in long-term? It's the best planet to do this.
     
  19. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    It is, but unfortunately our resources are limited and costs are incredibly high. Even if someone have enough resources to do it - he can use this resources in some other way that will benefit him (and the humanity) more
     
  20. CppMaster

    CppMaster King

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    Elon doesn't need money for himself. For humanity he also develops payment services, electric cars, solar energy gathering, neurotechnology and capsule transporting. SpaceX is just one of his project. What is the better way to use his money to benefit humanity that you are talking about? How do you even measure that? Colonizing Mars is necessary long term for surviving our civilization, so it doesn't end when the Earth is destroyed (by asteroid or us). Also with that development it would be easier to colonize other planets too.
     

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