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(LOCKED) Going for Gold: Wonders

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 23, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed Jun 6, 2018.
  1. Yes

    93.3%
  2. No

    6.7%
  1. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    I agree with both @LukaSlovenia29 and @ElliotS. I would build it in a border city with a Military Academy, if it were not for the fact the AI builds it in its capital, which will normally always beat a border city. However, this is suboptimal for the AI and creates an odd disincentive for the player. If it were made a military academy and the AI were taught where to build it, it would enjoy a really fun and interesting niche where you have a Wonder race in border cities which does not really happen now.
     
  2. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    I don't even necessarily think it needs the military academy. I just think teaching the AI where and when it build it is all that matters.
     
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    And you know that it doesn’t know where to go with those attributes because...
     
  4. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    If you're going to tell me that they almost never build red fort in their capital and I'm wrong I'll believe you, but given that Aztecs were building wells a month ago I wouldn't have guessed it.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I suppose I don't know, but in two recent photojournals my spy discovered an enemy was building red fort in their capital.
     
    Owlbebach likes this.
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Sorry for being sassy I’m talking about the new attributes ‘range strike damage increase and range increase’ changing AI build strategies. Those attributes have a slightly new routine as of last patch that helps the AI know where to put them.

    G
     
    Legen, ElliotS, CrazyG and 1 other person like this.
  7. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Sounds good boss! Just asking you to give it a stern look because there's something in my gut telling me that the AI's still likely to go "A WONDER?! MUST BUILD IT ASAP IN CAPITAL!" regardless of being told not to at first. xD
     
  8. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    I don't see the Red Fort as much in AI Capitals anymore.
     
  9. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I only see the Red Fort in the mirror.
    Spoiler :
    I WAS THE RED FORT ALL ALONG
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Sorry, I missed the joke. :(
     
    Enrico Swagolo likes this.
  11. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    For Red Fort, what if we added "cost of purchasing units in this city reduced by 25%"

    That way it is good in both border cities and the capital
     
  12. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I like that too. Will make it significantly more appealing for human, which to me is a problem now.
     
  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I've just looked at the wiki for the Red Fort, Unesco building in India. It's an impressive wall of over 6 km, guarding a palace, a temple and a garden.

    Giving a military fortress is very thematic, but it can give simply +20 defense to the city, +25% to GWAM people, plus some specialist slot, accounting for the palace. (a diplomat?) That'll make it interesting for a turtling strategy.
     
    CppMaster likes this.
  14. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    I think the -25% (or some other number) for military purchases would be an interesting option to consider for the Red Fort.
     
    Bromar1 and CrazyG like this.
  15. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Isn't this similar to, but weaker than, the Leaning Tower?
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Not loving any of these suggestions... I’m liking red fort just fine as it is already, I don’t see the need for the 4 range increase. There’s games where you expand in only 1-2 directions, leaving your capital as a border on one side, and it’s always exposed if you are coastal. I’m not convinced by any of these arguments that red fort necessarily needs to be made more palatable for everyone’s situation.
     
    Grabbl likes this.
  17. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Yeah. I wasn't considering other wonders, only in a void. :D

    But hey, you also get extra defense, so maybe not that bad compared to the LT.
     
  18. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    what if red fort added +1 Production to all Forts and citadels you have? Or let's just see how it is after the change.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  20. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    That seems okay, but I will argue that the -25% purchase cost will make it more attractive for defending an important choke point city.
    Either way, it should be some kind of global effect that won't feel like a waste if you build it in your capital.
     

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