I would like to bring up the Taj Mahal again if possible. It just feels like a poor man's Chicken Pizza in an era of very powerful wonders to otherwise compete for. I do not feel it's existence adds much to the game in terms of forcing decision making, risk taking or providing a different gameplay experience.
(LOCKED) Going for Gold: Wonders
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tu_79
Deity
But it comes with a religious building, isn't it? This kind of wonders are great for tall civs.
Doesn't seem to be the case right now. Also, why would you take Fealty as a tall civ?
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tu_79
Deity
I mistook it for Angkor Wat.
I see the lack of appealing. A few gap in one city. Culture from units lost. Not something you want to take advantage of. Reduced religious unrest. Not very likely to suffer with Fealty.
It's like a failback wonder. If things don't go they way you planned, it has you covered.
Sounds like a reasonable niche to me
I actually think the culture for lost units is really high. Like you can just intentionally let older units die for that culture, its a big amount. In industrial 200 culture and GAP is a solid amount. I could see a civ, especially the huns, getting some serious yields from just letting weak units die, as long as you can manage war wariness (which is currently really hard though).
Wasn't it you who suggested to play Inca with Taj and sacrifice hordes of slingers?
chicorbeef
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Can it just reduce something other than Religious Unrest? Boredom probably.
LukaSlovenia29
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Taj Mahal is either very exploitable (and I have to refrain myself from exploiting it when I build it) or very underwhelming. I didn't like the change then and I advocated for something different. So I hope it'll be changed to something better and less exploitable.
I wanted to touch upon something that somebody said in a different thread - the question of why can Petra only be built if the city is on/next to a desert tile? Even Machu Picchu/Neuschweinstein have less stringent demands and they come later (when you've had time to strategically plant a city), so at a minimum I'd discuss whether Petra could/should be changed that it can be built if the city has a desert tile within 3 tiles.
I wanted to touch upon something that somebody said in a different thread - the question of why can Petra only be built if the city is on/next to a desert tile? Even Machu Picchu/Neuschweinstein have less stringent demands and they come later (when you've had time to strategically plant a city), so at a minimum I'd discuss whether Petra could/should be changed that it can be built if the city has a desert tile within 3 tiles.
tu_79
Deity
It feels like it's a consolation prize for having such bad tile adjacent to the city. It is also one of the wonders you know if you can aim for.
LukaSlovenia29
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Petra is buildable even if you start next to an oasis, flood plain or desert hill with a luxury resource or on it, so next to a good-great tile. I just think it's too much RNG.
chicorbeef
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Can the Order from St. Basil be moved to Taj Mahal? A free Order would make sense with the Fealty/unit death theme of Taj.
Lol.
I feel a simple change would do. For instance, Luka's suggestion of just changing the happiness needs from unrest to boredom would be enough to give the wonder a niche.
The Taj Mahal itself is a mausoleum. I would avoid bringing in Orders.
The Taj Mahal itself is a mausoleum. I would avoid bringing in Orders.
ElliotS
Warmonger
What if Taj Mahal gives a free Mausoleum of Halicarnassus?
chicorbeef
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Hey, right now it's on the Cathedral of St. Basil
Yeah actually, I agree with that. Still deserves a little something in my opinion. This should do nicely. Makes more sense gameplay wise than to be on Basil.
I want to ask about the Hagia Sophia and its free church. I think the free church was added when churches had a different effect than they currently do.
Hagia gives a free great prophet, which by itself makes it worth building for anyone interested in spreading their religion. The ability to spam missionaries without stopping while still enhancing is extremely powerful. The secondary effects of Hagia have changed several times over the years I've played this mod, but its consistently one of the best wonders solely because of that great prophet.
The +25% strength to missionaries is somewhat situational, but can be valuable when competing to flip another civ or city states.
It also has 5
and 5
. When you consider the church, it has 7 and 9. Those are some really big yields for this stage of the game. Looking at a previous savegame, I had about 120 and 60 when I entered medieval era. The church has a WLTKD effect, and I don't think it occurs when you get it for free. So I just don't see why Hagia has a free church, its a very strong wonder without it.
Hagia gives a free great prophet, which by itself makes it worth building for anyone interested in spreading their religion. The ability to spam missionaries without stopping while still enhancing is extremely powerful. The secondary effects of Hagia have changed several times over the years I've played this mod, but its consistently one of the best wonders solely because of that great prophet.
The +25% strength to missionaries is somewhat situational, but can be valuable when competing to flip another civ or city states.
It also has 5
and 5. When you consider the church, it has 7 and 9. Those are some really big yields for this stage of the game. Looking at a previous savegame, I had about 120 and 60 when I entered medieval era. The church has a WLTKD effect, and I don't think it occurs when you get it for free. So I just don't see why Hagia has a free church, its a very strong wonder without it.
pineappledan
Deity
I has the free church because All religious wonders provide a free belief building. it used to have a free temple, but that got moved to Oracle.
I agree that Hagia Sophia is probably the best single religious wonder; I think it would be fair to nerf its base yields a tad
I agree that Hagia Sophia is probably the best single religious wonder; I think it would be fair to nerf its base yields a tad
Honestly you could just toss the yields and its still an amazing wonder.
Religious wonders include Borobordur, Hagia and Basil, or others too? Is there a particular reason why religious wonders must have a free building? Basil didn't have one for most of the mods history.
