Loco / King Kong Embassy

[Memphus]

Based on everything that has gone on with Loco (a.k.a. not that much )

I am wondering next turn If I should just propose our trade Sailing & mono for Iron & hunting on the next turn as that will force them to make a descision, to me it seems like they are doing a lot of "pressing enter" and not thinking to much inbetween turns

 

[General_W]

yeah... I think that's a good plan. If we don't hear back from them before the next turn comes around, I'll place orders to just offer the trade.

 

[General_W]

New Message from Loco...

Yeah, long story, you don't really want to know. It is quite a long way to your lands, especially while trying to avoid the barbarians. Our messenger should make it there by the end of the day.

So hopefully we'll hear something official soon!
At least they're playing along with our joke!

 

[Memphus]

New Message from Loco...



So hopefully we'll hear something official soon!
At least they're playing along with our joke!

And they have already played thier turn...I wonder if they accepted?

 

[General_W]

Well - for anyone that missed it - Loco turned down the IW/Hunting for Mono/Sailing offer. Not sure why... still no sign of the promised letter from them.

 

[Memphus]

Another turn played by Pfiffle another turn with no diplomacy

 

[General_W]

Right….

So do we send ANOTHER letter saying, "hey – it's been 24 since you said you'd send us a note by the end of the day… you guys just jerking our chain or what?"

Or do we just proceed with patience?

Part of me just wants to tell them they can shove their knowledge of sailing up … ... we'll get sailing ourselves.

But the other part of me is worried about Piffle, and it would be pretty nice to have another trading partner… even if they seem to be mostly incompetent.
Didn't anyone over there learn from the first MTDG about how critically important diplomacy is in a game like this?!?

Anyway – I'm at a bit of a loss – any ideas on how to proceed?

(restraining myself from using a whole string of smileys)

 

[Memphus]

Well According to DaveMcW you have to trade to stay in the game so maybe we need to tip the trade even further into thier favor
(although this sets a very poor precedent )

 

[General_W]

We finally got word!!

But it's still pretty ham-handed.

Greetings General_W and Epsilon Team

I'm afraid that as generous as the trades you proposed are, they are not acceptable to us. While your intentions were noble, you unfortunately have limited knowledge of the work of our scientists. They are on the verge of discovering these techs and so we would be gaining considerably less than 240 or 140 beakers.

However, this shouldn't stand in the way of peace between our two nations. Maybe you would like to suggest another trade, or maybe you would permit us to propose one?


Regards
koondrad

Team Loco

To me, this says that they're working on Iron Working.

Sadly, this makes our options much more difficult. I see 2 major options.

A) We offer Math (250) for Sailing and Monotheism (total = 220) – and they just need to send sailing (the one we really want anyway) right away as a show of good faith.

B) We offer Code of Laws (350) for Sailing, Mono, and they have to promise to coordinate research to make up the 130 deficit.

Given the choice – I prefer option A.
​

Here's a draft letter.
Please give feedback on which approach you prefer, and if you agree with me, what letter you like better!

Dear Koondrad & all Locos,

We're pleased to finally hear back from you!

Though you didn't say it – we assume you must be working on Iron Working – as that was the major part of our proposed deal – so we'll leave that tech out of future negotiations.

That limits our options a bit – but The Leader has developed an alternate plan.
You would still provide Sailing and Monotheism, and Epsilon will in return provide some new knowledge that our wisemen are currently studying. They are near done, and assure us that we'll have marvelous new ways of counting things (and chopping down trees ) when they are done. This knowledge of "Mathematics" is worth 250 base… so in exchange for us upping the unbalance in your favor even further, we'd like you to send the cheaper of your 2 techs (sailing) right away as a show of good faith.

We'll then offer Math for Monotheism as soon as we have the knowledge.

How does this offer sound?

We also stand ready to sign a peace deal – like the one we last proposed? Just let us know what you'd like it to look like.

We eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely Yours,
Foreign Minister General_W
Epsilon Team!

Let's get a plan asap, so I can respond before the turn cycles all the way around! I'd like to have sailing before our new town right away!

 

[DaveMcW]

I'm sure we will have Mathematics by the time they decide one way or another.

So just say that we will have Mathematics in 2 turns and we will offer the trade then.

 

[Memphus]

what Dave Said!

 

[General_W]

So - don't even worry about trying to get sailing early then? Remember it'll take a full turn from when we get Math till we can actually offer it.

Are you both supporting the letter as-is, but with the addittion of a time-table to when we'll get math?

 

[Memphus]

Correct (for me anyways) If they offer sailing sooner great, if not it isn't that far away.

 

[General_W]

Ok - here's draft #2

Dear Koondrad & all Locos,

We're pleased to finally hear back from you!

Though you didn't say it – we assume you must be working on Iron Working – as that was the major part of our proposed deal – so we'll leave that tech out of future negotiations.

That limits our options a bit – but The Leader has developed an alternate plan.
You would still provide Sailing and Monotheism, and Epsilon will in return provide some new knowledge that our wisemen are currently studying. They are near finished, and assure us that we'll have marvelous new ways of counting things (and chopping down trees ) when they are done. This knowledge of "Mathematics" is worth 250 base… so in exchange for us upping the unbalance in your favor even further, we'd like you to send the cheaper of your 2 techs (sailing) right away as a show of good faith.

We'll then offer Math for Monotheism as soon as we have the knowledge - estimated to be 2-3 turns from now.

How does this offer sound?

We also stand ready to sign a peace deal – like the one we last proposed? Just let us know what you'd like it to look like.

We eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely Yours,
Foreign Minister General_W
Epsilon Team!

EDIT: Sent

 

[Memphus]

I would say send it sooner rather than later as it takes those monopoly players forever to answer

 

[General_W]

ok - I'm still going to give this till late tonight (PST) to respond - to give max time to other team members to respond if they'd like to!

Then I'll just send. It'd be really nice if this could get worked out with Loco before the next cycle of their turn.

 

[General_W]

Ok – not to cut off debate, but the save is upon us! In the interest of time, I am sending this message to Loco right now.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I have yet to come to terms with the notion of giving up a monopoly tech as soon as we have discovered it for some minor techs only, but that is probably my inexperience with multiplayer...so yeah, letter and trade proposal sounds good, I guess.

-Kylearan

 

[General_W]

Well Kylearan, I certainly understand that – and, as far as this Foreign Minister is concerned, there are some limits on what we'll trade.

For example, I wouldn't trade alphabet to someone that doesn't have it and doesn't know anyone that has it as far as we know. (Like Loco).
Also – I wouldn't be eager to trade away a tech associated with a wonder we're building, unless we're very near done. (Like Literature).

Also – anytime there's tension, or doubt about a nations standing in world alliances, I'm also opposed to letting key military technologies go (like Guilds, Gunpowder, or Military Tradition) – assuming we have the monopoly position on it.

However – in general – I believe trading is always superior to not trading. Anytime you trade, you defacto leave the other 3 nations further behind. Now, this is somewhat mitigated by secondary trading that takes place by whoever you traded with – but you can also enter that secondary trading market… and by staying active and playing smart in the trading game, you can begin to slowly pull ahead of everyone.
The alternative (not trading) also has to be considered… if you go that route, your enemies will still make deals and leave YOU further and further behind with every trade they make.

There's also the intangible asset of trading in multiplayer – building that relationship with the other team. As is painfully obvious with Piffle… human-human relationships seem to break down in this game over the slightest and half understood things! Best insurance is to be a valuable trading partner. As wars break out, the secondary trading market will shrink dramatically… making every trade we can make even more valuable!

Anyway – don't want to put you to sleep – but that's my 2 cents on why trading is so important.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi General_W,

I can see where you're coming from, and again, it's probably just my inexperience with multiplayer that makes me feel uncomfortable here. Especially Mathematics, which I've argued before I think is not a key tech , is perhaps fine to trade away.

However, the main reason I feel uncomfortable is that we are the tech leaders and thus don't need to trade much - at least not yet. I say let's trade for techs we can use right away, but I don't see much value in trading for techs we don't really need yet, apart from building up relations (which itself is of course important). Trading should always have a purpose, and shouldn't be done just because we generally feel "trading is good" or "needed" - at least that's how I see it.

If we were not tech leaders, trading would be essential. But the way it is now, it looks a bit like we're optimizing our empire for research and pay monopoly research costs, only to give away these hard-earned techs for something we don't get an immediate value out of.


I hope this does not sound too dramatic; it isn't. I would just like voice my minority opinion on that issue as something to think about.

-Kylearan