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Logistics vs +1 range

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Doctor Doom, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    So I'm playing a Zulu game and I've been Cb spamming and training on Pacal's men and I've gotten my bowmen to level 4. But I'm not sure do I take logistics to do more damage and level up extremely fast or +1 range to attack cities easier and survive longer?
     
  2. Arms Longfellow

    Arms Longfellow Warlord

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    If you're on the offensive - +1 range so you can hit cities without being hit back
    If you're on the defensive - Logistics so you can hit swarms of units twice
     
  3. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    Thanks man!
     
  4. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    but he gave bad advice

    City will shoot SOME unit anyway (asside unrealistic scenarios where its totaly on plain and easy accesable) so it doesnt matter if u got one unit in back not tacking damage.

    Allways logistics 1. - u also lvl double speed like that to next promo ..
     
  5. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    Well I love to hear different opinions! Thanks guys!
     
  6. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    Have to differ with tommy here, it is almost always better to take range first when on the offense.
    Getting double exp does not matter when your units are getting killed or having to rest for 8 turns to heal. Unless I am farming exp on a CS, I take range so my units can actually live and shoot every turn.
     
  7. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    I tend to agree with tommynt, but it depends on the situation. Range first if you're trying to crack a hard target, logistics first if you're just getting XP and there's little risk or a nearby spot to heal.

    If you have to step into rough terrain/marsh tile before attacking, logistics units sometimes take so much damage before attacking that they have to retreat without firing a shot. A Range unit can attack without ever stepping into range, and sometimes that's the difference between winning and losing.

    It takes less turns to get Logistics + Range if you take Logistics first, in ideal situations. In non-ideal situations, Range can be the difference-maker. However, Range is still limited to the (IMHO broken) line-of-sight rules, which are more restrictive at range 3 than they are at range 2. You can't shoot around partial obstruction at range 3 like you can at range 2, even if the angle of attack would appear to be *less obstructed*.

    If you're ready to take a city, IMHO choose Logistics, because you will capture faster and make 2x XP, but only if you have a Cover unit to soak damage or can take it in one turn. Otherwise, unless it's a weak defense rating city, it's better to nuke it down and finish it off with a Zulu-promoted spearman, all without ever stepping into range.

    If you have open terrain, Logistics is better IMHO, because you can step in and fire on turn 1, and fire 2x on turn 2. If there are freaking hills everywhere, like Highlands, I like Range first, unless you got lucky and found Kilimanjaro.

    Generally, Logistics > Range if you're really good at combat, Range > Logistics if you're not. ;)
     
  8. striker4life360

    striker4life360 Chieftain

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    That and the fact that you can move after attacking, so if your move onto a tile with road shoot and move back you don't need plus 1 sight or a unit that has vision of that target.
     
  9. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    That's great for roads outside of enemy territory which is almost never relevant to me during conquest. Roads within 2 tiles of a city that aren't in enemy territory? Did you plant a great general? Are you attacking a satellite after capturing a capital?

    I mean, this is rarely relevant on offense IMHO.
     
  10. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    U guys act like u could choose 4th promo same time for 10 units.

    The realistic scenarion is that one after another gets promos and u got also some1 with just 2 or so
    As u want fight with all same time it doesnt help ANYTHING if there is one unit in back shooting safely - SOME unit will take damage anyway.

    And usually its anyway some melee unit.. or the good old pls kill me scout.
     
  11. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    When all fight at the same time, one gets damaged first and backs off to heal, and then another, and then another, and soon you're not all firing at once. Ranged units don't back off to heal. Let's say you're attacking 2x/turn. Unless you have a city adjacent to theirs, you have to move a few turns to heal, and then heal for a few turns.

    t1: move into range and attack once.
    t2: Bad luck you get hit, and you're at 60 hp. Attack twice.
    t3: Now you're at 20 hp. Attack once and back off.

    That's 4 attacks in 3 turns. Now go heal for 3 turns. That turns it into 4 attacks in 6 turns.

    But maybe you had to move one or two turns to get into your borders to heal. Now it's 4 attacks in 8 turns.

    In that same time frame, the Range guy attacks 8 times. Yes, this is a "non-ideal" situation, but many situations are non-ideal, and the Range guy always gets his 1 atk/turn in.

    If you never have to stop to heal, logistics promotes faster. If you *ever* have to stop to heal, Range promotes faster.

    EDIT: Also and this is IMHO the most important thing: Ranged guys can take a city even when getting hit would kill one CB/turn. Logistics guys just die in that scenario. Range is the safer bet.

    Of course, in my experience, it hardly matters. Once you have *either* promotion, the next one comes quickly. The Ranged guys can attack from farther away which generally means there are more turns when they can fire. Logistics get more attacks in when they do fire. It balances out IMHO. The promotions come quickly enough.
     
  12. WarIsPeace

    WarIsPeace Chieftain

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    I tend to have small armies, so I usually lack the damage sponges that tommynt refers to. For me, it's range every time for the reasons that Cromagnus outlined very nicely.
     
  13. sendos

    sendos Immortal

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    To diversify opinion further, range first for ranged foot units, especially when attacking and logistics first for mounted ranged units like keshiks.
     
  14. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    U still dont get the point ..

    If u have 2 units fireing from distance they wont get damaged and promote to next promo KINDA fast. Right.

    But open your mind and look on overall picture not on 2 units ...

    There still will be some other unit damaged who will then promote slowly and even worse its the one who is "behind" in promos allready ..

    U could argue that once u got 5 5 promo guys with logistics and range that THEN all other should go for range 1. - and i might agree to that - but only when u can take ciies while ALL units can shoot it from safe distance
     
  15. zukenft

    zukenft Xx420NoWondeRHon0rStaRtxX

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    range require lv 2 open/rough promotion, while logistics require lv 3. it's a no-brainer, range first.

    of course, if it's late game, logistics-first artillery/battleship might be better, but it's because they already have 3 range!
     
  16. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    nope ...
     
  17. Blicero

    Blicero Warlord

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    Both are good and I go for both with small preference for logistics. So if I have 8 units, I'll put logistics first on 5 and range on 3.

    Benefits of range:
    - can get more units into attack position. Not all cities are surrouded by plains, so range helps out with the more difficult targets
    - when you're on the offensive and have just taken down a city, the range units can immediately move up and start chipping on the next one while the bulk of the army heals

    Benefits of logistics
    - one unit becomes two
    - faster xp to having both promos
    - for frigates I always go logistics
     
  18. Anawrahta

    Anawrahta Chieftain

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    I would prefer logistics. Hit them hard and often!
    With logistics you might get in the range of enemy units/cities whereas you wouldn't with the range promotion. But you do expose yourself a shorter time because you can kill the enemy units faster with logistics. In addition you can easily compensate retreating units which eventually get killed the next turn.
    Also, without the indirect fire promotion the extra range is rather useless because of obstacles.
     
  19. zukenft

    zukenft Xx420NoWondeRHon0rStaRtxX

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    ah, sorry, yes, for land units, range and logistics require both level 3. but for frigates range only need level 2.

    so to sum it up :
    galleass/frigate : range first
    artillery : logistics first
    archers: doesn't matter, gonna be promoted into gatlings anyway
     
  20. krc

    krc King

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    Ah, but it does matter. That's one of the arguments for taking range, since you get gatling guns (and machine guns and bazookas) that can fire from two tiles. Of course, gatlings with both logistics and range are even better....
     

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