Lonely Hearths Club, BTS Edition, Chapter II : Willem van Oranje

r_rolo1

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Welcome to the Second edition of the Lonely Hearths Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearths Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

In the last instalement there were some religious Diplo wins. I confess that never had that idea, and I must reckon that it is a viable way to victory in a isolated start ( arguably the best: isolation permits a easier control of religion spreading and allows a more focused path to the AP ). We could saw as well that ( as advertised ) AI civs really try to will by all means: Invisiblestalke ZY dom try, my gilgamesh cultural one,.... This and the fact that AI try to stop a SS launch by war ( happened to me ) and that they are more willing to invade a lees powerful foe. This makes the space win less easy....

For the second game in BTS the choosed leader was Willem van Oranje of the Dutch:

Spoiler :
Willemstats0000.jpg


Nothing to say about financial: normally is in the top 3 traits of most of the players: one more gold can make a lot of diference, isn't it? ;)
Creative allows us to pop borders without culture buildings, which helps a lot when you need to fogbust. Also allows us a more flexible dotmapping.

His UU.

Spoiler :
Eastindiamenstats0000.jpg


A naval UU ( a BTS novelty ) that is avaliable with Astro ,that can carry a lot of units overseas and that is significantly stronger than the normal galleon. In spite of lacking the bombard , can be the backbone of intercontinental invasion ( allows you to delay Chemistry if you want to ) or for making a colony.

His UB.

Spoiler :
Dikestats0000.jpg


The Dike replaces the Levee and gives a :hammers: per water and river tile. This can transform any coastal/ river city into a major production central....

So, here is the start:

Spoiler :
Startingposition0000.jpg


P.S Not worldbuildered.... I swear :D

About saves: At request, we added a Deity save to the Noble-Immortal list already used in previous instalement. Pick the level you prefer below:

Noble
Prince
Monarch
Emperor
Immortal
Deity

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).

The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!

P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
 
Just one comment: That UU is awesome. It can explore enemy borders, making a naval conquest available the turn you DoW (Atleast against cities with low :culture:defense%... I might join when I get BtS. Gl and Hf.
 
This should be fun :) . Two gold in the BFC as financial is nice but usually when you get nice recources like gold in your starting position the rest of your tiles are usually less then mediocre.
 
Checkpoint 1. Prince.

Spoiler :
ss1.jpg

Yepp.. +5 health, +2 happiness. 'tis a harsh land we live in. (No, there's nothing in the black squares, I checked but didn't bother to take another shot at that point.)
I suck in dotmaps, but as I'm writing this, I'm about to settle in 2S of the Stone. Plan is to snatch both, Lighthouse and Colossus and hope that we meet someone with shared coastline for trading pre-Astronomy.
 
Since it saturday I got a cold beer and played to checkpoint one. I picked emperor as my difficulty and plan to play this game to take advantage of willems trait as much as I can.

Checkpoint 1:
Spoiler :

My strategy for this game will be:

- Try to build every city on a coast to take full advantage of the UB
- Since every city will be on the coast we will aim for the Great Lighthouse
- Skip early religions and try to found Confucianism with CoL
- Aim for the Colossus. Since the lighthouse will generate a great merchant I can bulb metal casting and hopefully build it before the AI can.
- With every city on the coast and with the colossus and willem as financial water tiles will yield alot of commerce and even production with levees.
- REX the rest of my island and meet my neighbours and see what victory condition we can hopefully win.

Now I dont espect everything to go as smoothly as this but atleast I got somewhat of a plan to follow :)

My build with this start was the following: Worker-Warrior-Settler-Warrior
My research was this: Mining-Hunting-AH-Wheel-BW

I delayed BW alot this game since I had so few forests to chop and I wanted to save the few I had for the great lighthouse to increase my chances to get it. Went with AH to be able to work the cow with my 2nd city because this area is very poor with food. Guess that's the price you have to pay when starting with two gold mines in your BFC.

My worker improved the rice first then build another farm at the river to increase Amsterdams food and finally mined the gold mines.

Here's my first warrior fogbusting the site for my first city. I decided to build it at the coast SE of Amsterdam so I could work the cow directly at size 1 and get Utrecht to build the workers needed for expansion.

fogbustwe9.jpg


utrechtvi8.jpg


Retroactive I think this was a pretty bad choice but I was afraid of losing my warrior to animals and being forced to delay my first city even longer by being forced to rebuild my warrior and scout further so I played safe and it worked out "ok" but I know there certainly are better places out there for a 2nd city. Later it whould also show I founded this city on iron /cry

The 3rd city The Hague became the gold city NW of Amsterdam it whould also grab stone that whould help me with some wonders if i decide to build them.

thehagueif4.jpg


Hague also have cows and gold but as many things else on this island lacks a decent source of food. I felt my cities newer grew and my settler took ages to build.

650 BC I completed the Great Lighthouse. I was really nervous that I should not get it so I chopped all of Amsterdams forests for it.

lighthousezm0.jpg


And finally here's an overview of my island in 650 bc. I've calculated that I have 6 or 7 more cities to build before it's completly settled.

islandym8.jpg
 
Ankh, he has shamed me into reporting my first checkpoint as well

Spoiler VOU's Emperor Check 1 :

I ended up making an Iron Working beeline (allowing me to place Utrecht one tile over). That took care of all of my military needs. The Hague went into the floodplains, using the iron there for production, but otherwise getting cottaged to no end.

Not much interest from the barbs - they planted one city not far from the Hague, which I slapped around to get a couple of swords promoted. Then I got careless watching it, and it managed to sneak a warrior out to mulch a settler :smoke:


Spoiler comment on Ankh's start :

GL on an isolated start? Is it really worth it? I suppose you could settle the merchant for food, but otherwise you are twisting your way up the Merchant tech preferences....
 
Hi

Can you post the game settings please.
Type of map, is AI set to Aggressive, barbarian setting, map size, speed, tech brokering on/off, etc

I might have a go at this!
 
@bigfatjonny ( I knew I had forgot something.....), from Monarch save ( in settings):
Spoiler :
Options0000.jpg

The map was generated with the Hemispheres script, random continents # , Varied Islands.
 
Thanks

Normal spped eh? I havent played at normal for ages, I hate war in normal.
Im thinking, tech lead - space ship, or wonder lead culture win.

However with no 'no tech-brokering' that might mean a fast tech game.

We will see.
 
full game summary (all checkpoints) (Emperor)
Spoiler :
I don't think I've won a Lonely Hearts before but I got a pretty easy space in 1956 from this one, played in 3 hours and just dialed it in. Settled in place and used it as a wonder pump. Used Archers for barb defense. Figured with high research I could found Christianity and did, and built AP+Sankore+Spiral. Built the Hanging Gardens. Rushed the Hagia Sophia and SOL. Oxford+National Park was northwest on the Plains Hill wheat/copper/gold/gold. Didn't get an Academy until very late; research was always distributed. Wall Street was north of the capital in cows/gold where I founded Christianity. Had one or two bogus wars and one non-serious declaration on me. Traded moderately and stopped trading some time in the industrial era. Got high production, happy eventually from free religion (3 religions) and health from buildings by brute force and moderate trading, with US/FS/Eman/Free/Free. Did use the culture slider a little in the Renaissance/Industrial era.
 
Report, defeat.
Quite extensive spoilers inside.

Spoiler :
Yep, got defeated. By the warmongerer in me, nonetheless. In my game, there was a huge block of Buddhists, which in the end were my fall. I quickly went for Lighthouse, but lost the Colossus. No biggie. I also lost AP to Mansa, which was quite bad, but I got Sankore for myself at least.
I also chose to go for Theology, which I got. Sadly, that was my only religion and by the time I had contact to any other religions, monasteries were obsoleted =(

So, long story short; I got techlead, went for Rifling and attacked Mansa who was nearest and weakest at the time. The war sucked up my teching and I was left behind by the Buddhablok. Later in the game, their "leader" came after me. I tried for a diplomatic victory by rushing the U.N, but failed with 50 votes. Next time, Hannibal was chosen as the leader =(


Man, Oranje with isolated start is wicked. Especially the dike's, just insanity.
Great game for me. :)
 
^^I agree.... and wasting a FP to get to the 2 gold pits... kind of bad, isn't it? Strategical decision on turn 0... just the way I like it :p

Well - I'll have to get the gold in by BFC - but I think you need the FP to feed it. Settle 1N for me.

Two gold makes an enormous difference at the start of the game, so it should be interesting. Might be a few days before I can get to play it though, so good luck to everyone.
 
Checkpoint 2: Writeup with screens, enjoy!

Spoiler :
Here's were we left of

islandym8.jpg


My plans for the midgame are the following:

Found confucianism and spread it to all my cities, then change to Organised religion to build up my infrastructure.

Try to get the colossus since i'll be working so many water tiles.

REX my island.

Build the Apostolic palace (AP) to increase my hammers even more.

Also if it's possible get the University and Spiral Minaret since I have stone.

Then we try to grow our empire as much as we can while staying out of war. I wont manage an intercontinential invasion on Emperor I just find it just to costly and not worth the risk, IF I should suceed and gain the needed land i'm probably forced to turn it into a colony anyway and I don't see any point in pouring all those hammers for so little gain and that is only IF I whould suceed.

Here we go:
Five turns later we do indeed found confucianism, we continue to settle our island and finally we get the Colossus in 375AD as well. Now we set sail for Theology and the AP.

thecolossuszx1.jpg


As you can see in the corner of the screen most of my island is settled by now. Only two more cities to go.

In 720 AD we have finally settled our island and here's how it looks:

settledep0.jpg


Barbarians were almost none existent this game which I found somewhat strange. A couple of Axes from my settled iron city were enough to keep them at bay and I didnt get a single barbarian city to spawn on my continent. It was pretty easy to fogbust (I only used 2 warriors for the job) and creative helps alot here with the fast border expansions.

I miss to found christianity with one turn here which probably means we have one more AI to hate us when we start to explore the world. But in 960 AD we complete the AP.

palacetz2.jpg


Here I had to decide if I should start research against caravels or develop my land even further by researching towards paper for the university of sankore. I went with the later, changed to bureaucracy and researched paper before going toward optics.

1060 AD University of Sankore was completed and we only miss the Spiral now for insane religious buildings. Shorly after my first caravels loaded with missionaries were completed and in 1170 AD the age of sail begun.

ageofsailtg0.jpg


I usually put missionaries on my caravels when starting isolated, if I dont have any religion founded I put an explorer on them always fill your caravels with units before you set sail from your continent it help alot. I built 3 caravels and send them east, west and south each with a missionary.

With caravels sailing the oceans we met our rivals one by one and here they are:

rivalsdc5.jpg


Mansa was jewish, Hannibal had Taoism!!, Charle were Buddist and waged war against Justinian and as usual Zara were the tech leader. Still I were WAY ahead of them in tech. Kinda strange this game dosnt feel like an emperor game at all. Egypt didnt even have CoL in 1400AD what's up with that seriously???.

I could backtrade for the tech I had skipped now. Shortly after we got the +1 movement for proving that the world was round and shortly thereafter we were the first to discover liberalism in 1350 AD.

liberalismfq8.jpg


In 1400 AD we completed the holy trio and built the Spiral Minaret. Somehow this feel somewhat easy.

The world as we know it:

worldod6.jpg


Heres my capital 1410 AD:

capitalvi8.jpg


I basically concider this game won by now, i'm having a huge tech lead and I probably will win the game by either a space race or I could end it earlier with an AP win it really dosnt matter which way I choose it's only a matter how much time i'm willing to spend. I probably could win by using the UN as well if I drop to free religion later. OR I could endager the game by doing something fun like invading mansa.

I'll finish this one tomorrow and post the conclusion then.
 
Monarch Checkpoint 1

Spoiler :

Settled in place once I saw the food. Built the great wall and a lot of workers and expanded to cover the island.

The AI seems to be teching pretty well and there is a wonderholic or two on the map. Lost the Collosus (which astonished me as I had gone early Metal Casting - possibly an AI got metal casting from the Oracle). Lost the pyramids, hanging gardens (by one turn) and an AI has the great library. If one AI is collecting them all then there is going to be a powerhouse on the map.

800 AD and I have optics. I also have a great spy, so I am hoping to tech steal my way to parity.

I like the island - lots of good city sites.
 
Finished (emperor): Writeup with screens in the spoiler, enjoy!

Spoiler :


Have to admit. Winning this game was more difficult than I first thought, although my win never was in any real danger I had to use the last ditch victory condition to win it.

My current empire:

1430ih2.jpg


As you can see i'm still just building infrastructure. All of my cities are converted to my state religion as well, to benefit the most from organised religion.

With such a huge tech lead I decided to try to end the game as early as I could and try to win with the AP. I had already spread my religion to Mansa (big mistake as you will find out later) and Hannibal.

convertingyu1.jpg


Spreading my religion to Zara, Justinian and Charlie was no problem, with some bribes. I had to give away some technology for them to open borders with me and in doing so I also suffered some diplo hits "you have traded with our worst enemies". But I managed to get Confucianism to them all. The last rival I spread it to was Egypt, since she didn't have a religion yet and I knew she whould spread it for a lot of votes once she got one.

When you try to get an AP win like this aim for the smallest cities and if possible without a current religion, like Pisa here in the above screenshot. Smaller cities give the AI less votes to stop you and if the city dosn't have a religion your missionary has almost a 100% sucess in converting it.

With my religion planted in all of the AI's empires I only had to declare myself leader right?

failiuresn5.jpg


As you can see Mansa had spread Confucianism in his cities and had enough votes to stop me :( Even Hatshepsut voted FOR me but it still wasn't enough for a win. The next vote was even worse, with Mansa having even more votes to stop me and in a different religious block he whould never ever voted for me, so the AP diplomatic win was impossible now. I had to invade Mansa if I wanted to pull it off. It was close, very close.

With the AP failiure I put research toward steam power for the UB. Dikes whould help a lot with my production because most of my cities were built on the coast. As you can see here dikes and the moai statues stack so water tiles gives +2 hammers, yey.

middleburgdi6.jpg


Yes that's still a warrior defending the city :). Since neither of the AI's have astronomy yet I felt pretty safe. I will soon have rifling so i'm going to replace them with some modern troops.

With four different religious blocks a diplomatic win with the UN seemed impossible. All the AI hated each other and there was a lot of demands to wage war and stop trading. To increase my standing with the AI I changed to free religion, that got rid of the negative modifier for my religion and made most of the AIs pleased.

relationspe8.jpg


Unable to get an AP win or an UN win the only choice I had left was to build the space ship and launch to Alpha Centuari. From here on I played really sloppily, basically only hitting eot and giving in to all demands from the AI to avoid being declared on while teching and building my spaceship. I played through this game without a single war.

In 1942 I launched my spaceship without a singel rival being close.

spaceshipds2.jpg


10 turns later I won the game and there was much rejoycing.

victorymk7.jpg


And the score:

scorewn9.jpg


Almost 20000 points, good enough for a launch victory I think. This game felt pretty easy, I don't know if it was the financial trait or the gold mines at the start that made it so easy. I kind of lost interest in the last part of the game and probably could have ended it a bit earlier if I had stayed more focused, like invading Mansa to get enough votes or played my cards more carefully for an UN diplomatic win. But in the end, pressing eot just felt a lot easier.
 
Monarch checkpoint 2
Spoiler :
Well, i must confess that things aren't going exactly like I want to.... lost Oracle, lost lib race ( MM beelined it as a mad man, even letting CS behind :eek: ), lost GL... but I got the only wonder that really matters for the path I choosed: the AP :p ....currently in the work of converting enough people to the vote ( only Justinian and Charlemagne are lacking ) and in having enough pop. P.S Gifting missionaries to Theocatric civs works ;)
I postponed the post some turns because I wanted to get the circumnavigation bonus and to give you this far far away map
Spoiler :
Theworld15150000.jpg
 
Monarch checkpoint 4
Spoiler :
Instead of making a big and wordy breifing, I'll give you a comic book:
Spoiler :
1sttry0000.jpg
Spoiler :
failbyanail0000.jpg
Spoiler :
2ndfail0000.jpg
Spoiler :
3stfail0000.jpg
Spoiler :
Finally.0000.jpg
Spoiler :
Map17200000.jpg
Spoiler :
Score0000.jpg

Thoughs

This was my first AP victory and I must reckon it is not as easy as some people suggested ( in spite of being remarkably easier than most of the other victories ( space would be a headache with mansa grabbing tech like a mad man , but doable ), especially the control of the spread of the religion ( I had luck about the fact that no civ started to spread agreesively the confu faith)). The trick of gifting a missionary to a theocratic civ should be resolved too (the AI normally takes it to a heavily populated city ( smart move ), but doesn't do anything else ( like adopting OrgRel and spread the religion, just to stop a loss ...)
In resume: a fun game, but I really don't like this kind of victories ( I really like space and conquest ones ... )


I know that is still early ( a lot of people is still playing ) , but can you give suggestions about leaders for next chapter? Should we try a warlords/Vanilla leader ( we still have a lot of untested ones ) or we continue solely in BTS? In the first scenario, I would like Brennus and in the second, Zara Yacob or ( crazyness of the crazyness ) Boudica :crazyeye: , but I'm open to any sugestion...
 
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