Lonely Hearts 2: Shaka

[willpax]

Welcome to our second installment of the Lonely Hearts club, where we explore the rather difficult situation of the isolated start.

For this installment, r_rolo has provided us with a save file using Shaka of the Zulu:

Here is the save file:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95757/LonelyShaka_BC-4000.CivWarlordsSave

Opening comments to follow.

 

[willpax]

Initial thoughts:

First, about our leader and civilization:

Shaka is aggressive (Free Combat I promotion of melee and gunpowder units. Double production speed of Barracks and Drydock) and expansive (+2 health per city. Double production speed of granary and harbor), and has the impi (replaces spear) and Ikhanda (a barracks that offers -20% maintenance). The Zulu start knowing agriculture and hunting.

For isolated starts, the Zulu present an intriguing mix. I imagine many people, when playing an aggressive civ, simply restart when there are no early war victims around, but there are several advantages the Zulu have in this situation.

First, the impi (should we have metal) make very good fogbusting units with their mobility, and are tough enough to deal with archers (although they need some backup against barbarian axes, we will probably want to make fogbusting a priority so we don't have to deal with many of those).

Second, the Ikhanda gives us a barracks for better troops, is cheaper to build because of the aggressive trait, and helps lower the cost of all the early expansion we will want to do.

Third, the expansive trait gives us a health bonus. One factor in an isolated start is a relative lack of bonus resources. While monarchy/hereditary rule provides a way to deal with happiness issues, there is no easy solution for health problems. The +2 health will be a big help--especially in the flood plain start we seem to be given right now.

So: what are your initial thoughts about this situation?

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm suspicious to talk about this game, but Shaka may be good in isolated starts because of the REXing. His UB is a mini courthouse that gives XP to Units and, even that is a shame to put Impis in a isolated start, they do a good job as anti barb units. Nevertherless, Shaka has no economic traits, which can slow down your research. And the lack of Myst will most surely stop you of having a early religion ( religions help a lot in isolated starts)
From this I would this something like:

Research Myst while buiding warrior ( we don't know the island size and if it is from a size near of the ALC 15 , we'll be with some barb problems)

AH ( even if no horsies around, you be able to work the Pigs, suposing you'll settle on place (not a bad site at all, by the looks of it( move the scout before settling of course ), Mining, BW wheel, Pottery ( all this can be changed )

Stonehenge ( border pop + GP points )

.....

GPhophet bulbs theo and you become a christian ( I really doubt that with Shaka you manage to found Bud, Hind or Judaism)

The problem with this is if you don't have stone or marble, this will take away your chances on the Oracle ( and of the much needed Monarchy tech ).

 

[CivSetä]

Ouch, this one is going to be much tougher!

I think that Oracle is more useful if you want a religion. Use Oracle to grab CoL, early courthouses are useful even if you have Ikhanda. I'll probably try that on my shadow game.

How about research? We need myst-poly-priesthood-writing for sure, but what else? I think we need mining-BW to chop Oracle, and then getting AH first can just take too long. I would like to research wheel-pottery too to take advantage of all those floodplains, but I'm afraid that it is out of question if we can't find gold or silver from a fat cross.

Maybe Henge is not a bad idea after all. Getting both AH and pottery earlier could be wise, and that would be possible then. We should properly use our starting position.

Or third way could be the most ambitious. Go mining-BW-myst-poly-priesthood-writing and chop both Henge and Oracle. We could found both Confu and Christianity then, if our second city could support two priests we could get another GP for CS also.

What do you guys think?

 

[gallego]

Wasn't the goal of the series to start play once isolation became clear? We will have to be careful to not let the fact that we are isolated guide our play before we actually see it for ourselves in the game.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I agree, I liked the way in the last game the initial save was played on from when the player realised that they were isolated on their continent.

What difficulty level is this on?

Also don't forget about the Ikhanda not being counted as a barracks bug for the Nationhood civic.

 

[willpax]

Wasn't the goal of the series to start play once isolation became clear? We will have to be careful to not let the fact that we are isolated guide our play before we actually see it for ourselves in the game.

Yes--I, at least, will avoid any gambits based on the assumption of isolation.

A normal Shaka start would probably involve a warrior or scout while growing the city for later worker/settler builds, I would think. At least my first priorities are scouting and expansion (no matter who the leader is). In a game where I didn't know the situation, bronze working would be an early priority for the impis and second city location, so I'll probably go toward that first (to maintain a more normal situation).

Others may do whatever they like, of course.

 

[pigswill]

I don't think it really makes a difference to how you start; buildwise you'll be doing 1-3 warriors/scouts, worker, settler. Techwise you'll go through standard mining, BW, AH, wheel, pottery, writing, maybe some religious techs. By the time you've got this lot done you'll have done your local exploring. You ain't going to change the start much knowing you're isolated, you still need to milk cows, grow crops, chop forests regardless of being isolated or surrounded by civs.

 

[r_rolo1]

If someone wants it, I can post a later save. I gave Willpax the 4000 BC save because of some requests that were made about the Incan game.

But I agree with pigswill: Shaka has a scout, and if the RNG Gods aren't completely mad with you, you'll discover that you're isolated before you can make your first wonder ( probably even before of your first settler ). Not much of a difference for a more normal game or even of a non isolated start with a faraway civ in the other side of a snaky continent.

 

[r_rolo1]

@ CivSetä

I like your third option. Risky, bold ... it might work.

I'll try ( for the second time ) the Henge + Oracle.

 

[r_rolo1]

@ ParadigmShifter

Monarch, Random leader, Standart, Temperate, medium sea level, Fractal, Epic speed

 

[pigswill]

Non-industrious leader? Unless there's accessible stone or marble I'd just expand and forget early wonders, but then again I rarely build early wonders.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I presume its Monarch again?

Expansive should shine really well. I'd like to see a different strategy here:

- No early wonders - Without mysticism or mining to start, it will be hard work to get Oracle - not worth it in my opinion compared to getting your cottages running.

- Very early archery - you are one tech from archery - thats enough for early defense and fogbusting. Archers are cheap for HR later.

- Delay bronzeworking, in fact everything else until you get pottery and start cottage spamming. Then go bronzeworking. So early tech is wheel, pottery, archery, mining, bronze.

- Since your capital is on floodplains, you can farm one tile, drop cottages on the remainder and still have fairly good worker/settler production once you reach your cap. Your capital can keep working 5 cottages and pump out settlers.

- Consider farming some barbarian cities if the land is big enough. Possibly you can set aside an area for them to grow in and fogbust the rest. Since you will have barracks, try and get an impi to level 3.

- After bronzeworking, shoot for AH, writing, priesthood and monarchy. Then mathematics and straight to Optics. With your UB and lots of cottages you may be able to delay COL.

The main plus of the Impi is that when you get bronze you will be able to build cover impis which can race around slaying barb archers all over the place. So one impi could do the barb protection of two normal units and hopefully get to Level 3.

 

[willpax]

Spoiler :

I opted for a very standard opening with the Zulu: a bronzeworking beeline with an initial scout build for early exploration (Invisiblestalke, I look forward to seeing how your pottery/archery opening works in comparison). After BW and animal husbandry, my plan is to go for pottery and begin cottage spamming.

I'll give a summary rather than a turn-by-turn log: my first and second scouts mapped out the island and produced 175 gold plus the technology of fishing. I have a warrior guarding the capital, have finished the revolt into slavery, and have a worker started. The map looks pretty isolated to me:

The southern scout whille wheel around clockwise to check out the southwest corner, which I hope will reveal a bed of crabs lol.

So, pending animal husbandry and iron working, here's what we have to work with:

strategic resources: bronze, ivory
happiness resources: ivory, silver, and (later) whale
health resources: pig, sheep, deer, clam, fish

No stone, no marble. I'm not even sure we want to try for the Oracle (although it still is tempting for the tech bonus and a metal casting slingshot for Colossus--although I don't see as many promising coastal sites as last game).

Another resource: a big long winding river that will allow us to hook up the bronze without a continent-spanning road, as well as cottage or farm along as we need to, as well as another river to the south. With some farms, we should be able to get cities up to their caps fairly quickly.

I think the next builds will be finish worker, then warrior, then settler. The scouts can fogbust to the north and I will hook up bronze as soon as possible.

This looks challenging.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95757/Lonely_Shaka_BC-3040.CivWarlordsSave

 

[pigswill]

Could I request that people post reports and maps in spoiler tags .

For one thing it takes less scrolling to work through the thread. More importantly it allows people to discuss general strategy and tactics in the thread without spoiling their games in the process .

 

[Immaculate]

I gave it a quick try but haven't gotten off the island yet.

I got the oracle for monarchy and lightbulbled philosophy for taoism. I also built the great lighthouse. I have two great scientists in reserve and one coming up. Once machinery is done they will be used to lightbulb optics and astronomy for oceanic trade routes. I've built mostly farms and don't have a single cottage in the 800ADs. I went from a slavery civic, to a heritidary rule civic, to a caste system civic to a pacifism civic. Once i have a third scientist in reserve, i will focus on building up my cities for larger trade route revenue.

Immac.

end round 1

end round 2

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Looks like a good start - lots of space and four health resources. Monarchy should be a priority - and I'd skip all the wonders and just get cottages up and running and beeline monarchy.

 

[r_rolo1]

@ Willpax and lurkers

Spoiler :

It's challenging indeed. The island is quite big ( perhaps we should call it small continent ) and has that long river calling for farms and cottages. There are a bunch of flooplain sites ( I can see 3/4 floodplain cities ) and some grassland in the south ( needs IW ). Either a CE or FE/SE aproach are good with this map ( and the Exp bonus helps with the floodplains ), but both work well with large pop ( read HR ). On the other hand there isn't a clear GP farm site ( maybe 1N of the NE sheep or somewhere near the deer... none is a hotspot, but...) and no obvious coastal sites ( maybe Collosus isn't such a hot shot as it was in the Capac game)

In your place I would settle near the cooper ( maybe 1 W) and start doing Impis ( the island is big and fogbusting it totally may not be a option ). Oracle or not (I would try for a early HR or for the CoL tech) you should ReX the island ASAP , focusing on inner cities (more workable area) , maybe focusing on the long river ( with Shaka + Ikhandas 4 undeveloped cities allows 60% science and floating, 6 with a good cottaged floodplain site like your capitol)

Seeing far away, I would say that this start is good for a diplomatic win after Biology ( lots of places for big cities will put you surely as the #1 in pop ) and for space ( Emancipation liftoff will help you catching up the tech and I can can see some decent production sites ( some need lumbermills + railroads ),some of the near the Equator ( Space Elevator )), and not so hot for Cultural (I doubt that you can found more than 2 religions). With such a large island ( compare with Lonely Capac ) Domination is a option too.

I'm eager to see the outcomes ( most surely better than my own )

 

[oyzar]

at least for me almost all normal games involve sevral workers before pop 3 and most likely before pop 2...

 

[r_rolo1]

My contribution to the victory spoilers:

Spoiler :

Space victory in 1934.

After my first offline try ( right next to Lonely Capac) that was a very tight and wierd space race loss ( by 5 turns in 1952, to ceasar ( the guy had Three gorges dam )) in a almost completely hindi world ( only the Ottoman guy remained buddist) tech trading like mad, I decided to give it another try. I decided to do a Henge + Oracle gambit ( no stone, no marble, not Ind ), to guarantee a religion ( which I failed to found in my first game, giving myself lots of headaches) and a early HR. Suprisingly, I've got the two wonders on my capitol with little chopping ( two forests ), giving me 4GPP for a GPhrophet.
Of course that doing two wonders delayed my ReXing and the fogbusting and had some barb problems. But after some work I've got half dozen of cities and even more wierd, founded Confu and Christ(with the GPhophet)( the continuous birth and death of GG gave me a clue of what the AIs were doing...), powered by my heavily cottaged capitol.
After contact with outer world (near 900) and trading of Theo for some leftovers ( all the other AI had at least 8 techs on me) and of (not suprisingly) lost both the circumnavigation and the liberalism race, I quickly filled the coastal gaps is my island and focused on economical techs ( Guilds, Banking, PP ) I beelined Democracy for the Emancipation jump ( like Aelf did in Immortal Chalenge I) and US ( in that ocasion the AI where kind enough to send missionaries to my lands, so the HR ->US transition wasn't a big bump).
In between the AI continued warring eachothers ,with Ceasar and Ragnar slowly eating Mao and Ramesses cities, while adding diplo - against me because of my continual refusal to fight other people wars ( but I cave in to every demand of tribute )
When I realized that I was the second to finish apollo ( first was the Ind (and vassalized to Ceasar) Ramesses) and that I had the monopoly in computers and was one of three civs that had aluminium, I understood that the space race was in the bag. Shift -Enter some times and launch... with the AI still killing eachothers ( china was swept away of the game during this phaze of the game).
Not a briliant game, but my first Augustus win on Monarch ( 15k )

I do believe that having done a heavy cottaging of the capitol was the key of the game, much more than the Henge + Oracle gambit. And Shaka proved to be a nice leader for an isolated start if there is space for ReX . The ability of having more cities with non-sinking finances, the Exp trait ( helped a lot with those heavy floodplains sites ) and the Impi ( that prove to be a very effective antibarb unit, only needing help for the occasional axe ), combined with a not so bad island ( has cooper, iron, elephants, coal, uranium, oil and aluminium) with a decent size gave Shaka a ocasion to shine in a role that most of the people wouldn't think he would cope. I really think that a more competent player could pull a Dom/Conquest out of this (a attack on the Ottoman guy during the gunpowder age and the other later). But I have serious doubts that Shaka would work well in a rather small island like Capac had.

The save (last turn before victory):
Ricardo_Rolo_AD-1933.CivWarlordsSave

P.S In spite of the diferent traits and strategies against isolation of Capac and Shaka, both have a early UU that copes well with the barb problem. If willpax wants to do a Lonely heart 3, maybe I'll suggest a leader with a less early UU (need to think on that after ; is almost 5AM in here).