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Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter LXXXII: Boudica

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by elitetroops, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Welcome to the 82nd edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one ): starting in isolation....

    Our next leader is Boudica of the Celtic Empire.
    Spoiler :

    Traits: Aggressive & Charismatic
    The stronger aggressive warriors might come in handy for initial fogbusting. Faster promotions to unlock HE while figting barbs and the extra happiness from monuments makes CHA a somewhat useful trait in isolation.

    Techs: Mysticism & Hunting
    Not the most useful techs in isolation. But at least you can get the CHA boosted monuments up early.

    Unique Building
    The Dun
    Walls that give guerilla I promotion to land units. Not likely that this could ever be a useful building in isolation.

    Unique Unit
    Gallic Warrior
    A Swordsman that starts with Guerilla I. Also highly unlikely that this unit will be very useful in this game.

    The Start
    Spoiler :


    For those who are new to total isolation, you may want to take a peek at r_rolo1's guide, You, Yourself and your shadow : Some lessons on isolated starts. Also, the LHC Bullpen.

    You will find the zipped saves below. Choose your level then choose your level (more precisely) then choose your speed and get underway. For Monarch+, don't forget to add Archery to the barbs. No huts & no events are selected.

    Suggestions for updates are:

    Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

    Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

    Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

    Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).

    Finally, a thank you to r_rolo1 and all those that came before him in this series' initial run and to TheMeInTeam for the map creation guides, and to everyone else who co-hosted this series. Enjoy!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Spoiler map details :
    Fractal, regenerated until first isolated start, no edits.


    i_imperator wished to see a continuation to this series, so I figured why not give it a shot now when IU apparently is on a break, to give all you fanatics something to play this weekend. Enjoy!
     
  3. terriFyer

    terriFyer Chieftain

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    i keep clicking the zipped saves but nothing's happening
     
  4. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Oops, forgot to attach it. It's there now! :)
     
  5. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    I'd like to play this if I can find time for it. It's been ages since I played an isolation game, probably haven't done it since back in the noble days. Is it a good idea to take it on on my regular level (imm), or would it be wiser to step down a notch? Based on the start, our leader and the fact that we are isolated, I believe this could be quite a tough game...
     
  6. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Good timing - I love the challenge of isolation and the wife's away this weekend :)

    Sent from my Android phone
     
  7. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Initial thoughts:-

    No huts takes away one of the advantages of a scout :-( although understandable for a Forum game (easier to compare games).

    Boudica doesn't have any attributes that help in isolation and the food is underwhelming, going to move my Scout 1NE but probably SIP.
     
  8. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Spoiler for checkpoint 1 :

    Should be able to get 7 or 8 cities up, stone and marble about, thinking perhaps Culture.




     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    scout not much help I think, but I would look to settle inland

    edit: actually move Scout 1SE first just to see tile 2S of settler
     
  10. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    I looked at earlier LHC games and no huts seemed standard, so I went with that. One of the biggest challenges in isolation is that you have to tech it all by yourself and huts could ruin this exercise, at least they would make luck play a much bigger factor.

    Checkpoint 1:
    Spoiler :
    SIP like NZ. CHA will be somewhat useful because there are no happiness resources at all except whale. We have stone and marble though, so mids seems like an absolute must. All cities will be coastal so GLH is very welcome too. Then I shall try to power my economy with tons of failgold to reach astro asap.

    A religion could come in handy here. What religion is people usually aiming to grab in isolation, if any?
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    not sure, but you may be able to add back huts option if you load as "custom scenario". just avert your eyes from the top of the screen to avoid seeing AIs
     
  12. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    No - there are none in the file. Not a problem, understand the logic, was just pointing out how crap Boudica is in an isolated game with no huts :D
     
  13. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    @elitetroops

    Spoiler :
    Confu from CoL is pretty standard but in my game I popped a Great Prophet as I had built Stonehenge so he bulbed Christianity.

     
  14. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker Chieftain

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    Oof, brutal start with one of the worst starting tech/UU/UB/trait combos in the game for isolation. Uuuugh. I probably wont play this on Deity.
     
  15. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    No worries, I don't think series this is expected to be played on deity. The last few LHC games didn't even include deity saves. I generated the deity save as I'm used to doing that and left it in there just in case there is some sicko around who would be crazy enough to try it. I'm quite doubtful if I can even win this on immortal...
     
  16. Thrar

    Thrar Chieftain

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    Checkpoint 1:
    Spoiler :

    Mapping out the whole island, it seems clear that GLH is a must. Every city will be coastal. The island should be able to support 10 or so cities.
    CHA will actually come in handy with the lack of happy resources.

    Tech path: AH-Mining-BW-Fish-Sail-Masonry for GLH. Then expand and tech to Optics.


    Checkpoint 2:
    Spoiler :

    Met the first AI in 1030 AD, the last in 1170. Got some decent trades in up to CS. HC is running away, he has 13 cities and a massive tech lead, including Astro from Lib. He's at war with Monty who is horribly backwards, so might get even more cities soon.

    After Astro, the next goal will probably be Steel and hitting Monty (if he's still around then) or Charlie.
     
  17. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker Chieftain

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    This is my first fully isolated game, with some luck I'm killing it so far. This'll be a detailed write-up.

    Immortal Checkpoint 1, to 1AD:

    Spoiler :
    Early scouting reveals both stone and marble, and that we have a small continent that can be fogbusted by 5 or 6 units. There are only 8 good city spots with one, the stone location, having no food resource. The whole eastern end of the continent is particularly useless, and that fish resource only accessible by settling ON the copper hurts.

    I want to follow the most efficient tech path for pursuing all three of the Oracle, the Great Lighthouse, and the 'Mids. So tech path went:

    AH->wheel, otherwise workers would have absolutely nothing to do after the two pastures, can pre-road stone and marble.

    Fishing, capital can build a workboat for the second marble/fish city and also work 1F/2C coast for desperation commerce.

    Pottery, to immediately start cottaging the capital to speed up the research rate for the many early techs we need without the usual alpha or aesthetics or HBR flip to broker everything you skipped.

    Masonry to hook up the stone and marble. I made the call to really delay mining-.BW to save quite a few turns unlocking the Oracle which can be slow-built in the capital in about 10 turns with marble hooked up.

    Poly->Priesthood(1640BC)->Mining->Writing, Poly over Meditation because I want the marble wonders it unlocks. So I take the risk of adding a couple turns to the Oracle start date, which I mitigated by delaying mining and BW.

    Aesthetics (oracled), this may have been a poor choice, I don't know. In hindsight with the Mids taking CoL may have been more effective. I wanted to give the other continent(s) all the religions so there's a better chance of war over there. Runaway AI love-fests are I think a bigger overall problem than having to self-tech CoL instead of Aesthetics.

    Sailing->BW(825BC) to immediately start chopping out the Great Lighthouse in the capital

    Literature(450BC)->Agriculture, finally able to get the stone city past size 2.

    CoL(1AD) will switch to caste system to start running mass scientists as soon as the fish and pigs city are done building other things.

    Wonders:

    The Oracle (capital, 1120BC), the Great Lighthouse (capital, 500BC), the Pyramids (stone city, 375BC), the Parthenon (capital, finished next turn), the Great Library (in about 10 turns in the marble city). A lot of lucky dates, I doubt I could replicate this. There was a period of a few turns early where I had nothing really to build in the capital so I got some failgold out of Stonehenge, which helped me get through Priesthood->writing 3 or 4 turns faster.

    Only four cities (with a settler on the way to the pigs/copper site) because of the huge push for wonders, but there's no rush and with Caste/Rep I'll quickly settle the few remaining spots with food and really get my tech rate up. Currently five cottages being worked around the capital, I plan to have five more. What looked like a pretty poor location will turn into an alright Bureau cap eventually.

    I was fortunate to pop a Great Merchant, I though long and hard about bulbing Metal Casting. Forges really do nothing for this map until the later game, the Colossus is tempting but it's actually not very if you can run Rep scientists. I figured it would net me under 10 gold/turn with all my cities up and running as I have planned. On the other hand a settled GM in a food-poor capital with the Rep bonus is really strong and doesn't obsolete so I settled.

    Currently not sure if I should settle on the copper to get the fish and then settle a coastal tundra site to use the pigs. Two cities with high food resources make for more rep scientists, but they're cities with close to zero production that will be useless in the mid-to-late game.

    My lonely empire:



    Research is pretty modest but I don't see how it can be any better on a map like this. I've set myself up such that my tech rate should explode over the next 30 turns as all sorts of rep scientists come online and I continue to develop the capital. Once intercontinental trade routes are in I feel like I should be able to catch up and pass the AIs unless there's a serious runaway, in which case I'll ragequit because I can't possibly imagine a better, or luckier, opening 115 turns :mad:


    Suggestions on settling and tech path from people with experience on isolated maps would be nice :goodjob:
     

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  18. Grashopa

    Grashopa Chieftain

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    Megalurker
    Spoiler :

    Your wonder dates I why I didn't pursue this game after starting on deity. Even on immortal this is a tough map I think. I'd like to see your BPT once you are fully settled out and working the rep scientists.

    Always get CoL and the religion, and settle on the copper for fish and tundra for pigs is my suggestion. An extra city with a 6 food is 3 rep scientists.
     
  19. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker Chieftain

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    Grashopa...wish I'd read your advice before continuing on, you're a much better player than me :blush: I would say this map is pretty much unwinnable on Deity, though an extremely efficient player might pull off a culture win.

    Spoiler :
    I foolishly settled to kill the fish, you're right that 3x rep scientists is better than an extra 2 hammers. My thinking is that once the world is discovered I'm going to be so hard up for production to actually mount any kind of invasion. Then of course I remember that fish provides more production than that just with slavery. I'm pretty dumb sometimes, it's a miracle I ever win on Deity at all.

    AI wonder dates in this one were pretty wacky. Stonehenge in 2200...okay, pretty normal. Then of course my super-late 4x luck-fest (Parthenon in 1AD?! I was just building it for failgold initially), but then:

    Great Wall in 775 BC
    ToA 445 BC
    Colossus 425AD
    SoZ 450AD
    MoM 475AD

    now dates seem to have normalized a bit, but still...


    As for tech pace:

    Checkpoint 2 around 1000AD:

    Spoiler :

    Tech path continues: Metal Casting 375AD
    Maths 425AD
    Alpha 500AD
    Machinery 600AD
    IW 620AD
    Compass 740AD
    Meditation 760AD
    Philosophy 780AD (bulb)
    Optics 880AD
    1x bulb into Astro
    Civil Service 1060AD

    Built the National Epic in the GLibrary city, being more interested in speed than game-long efficiency of sharing GP production.

    So really powering through despite an unlucky Great Engineer in the Mids city who could only bulb construction for me so I have him stashed away for a wonder like Statue of Liberty or, more likely, the Kremlin. He'd have been strong settled in the capital as well but a wonder like the Kremlin is game-changing.

    The same turn as I got optics I upgraded a trireme to a caravel, loaded a scout, and zig-zagged west. Discovered a continent in 1040AD and within two turns met Gilgamesh, Huayna, and Monty. The bad news is that Huayna has capped Monty, the good news is that Huayna has mostly useless wonders and no shrine.

    Despite the really good tech rate I have the sheer number of things I had to research left me way behind. The only tech I have to trade upon meeting the AIs is Optics, but I manage to trade it to all three for Currency, Calendar, Construction, Monarchy, and HBR as well as some early backfill. I am also first to Civil Service amongst the three of us, strangely enough, at 1060 AD. This makes me think that with my tech rate and GScientist production I can still win Lib, especially with intercontinental GLighthouse trade routes via Astro less than 10 turns away! I've even got 3.5 harbours built in anticipation of all the sweet, sweet commerce. I'm also surely guaranteed the circumnavigation bonus.

    Here's the tech scene:



    The capital, with Bureaucracy at long last:



    Obviously quite behind on cottage development because I didn't overlap well (just one helper city that switched over to running scientists a thousand years ago :rolleyes: Also one fewer cottage than planned because iron was there, I'm not complaining. It's at the current happy cap but in 2 turns I'll have whales, and then I should be able to get lots of happy resources once Astro is in.

    The empire, less lonely than last time:



    Note the poor city placement :blush: And the fact that I still have one food resource I haven't even settled. I guess I just...forgot? :blush::blush:

    I'll probably end up taking Nationalism with Lib if I do get there first, can't be doing anything risky and Chemistry is not too appealing with the rate of GP production I have.
     

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  20. Grashopa

    Grashopa Chieftain

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    Nice writeup. Hope this doesn't spoil anyone, but I had to laugh :D

    Spoiler :

    I love the jump you get post astronomy with trade routes and getting happy in trades. I mean look at the capital and your other cities due to the lack of happy resources. You are in quite a good position considering the start.
     

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