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Lonely Hearts Club, BTS Edition, Chapter VI: Pericles

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by r_rolo1, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Welcome to the Sixth edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

    For the Sixth game in BTS the choosed leader was Pericles of the Greek :
    Spoiler :

    Pericles IMHO is one of the best candidates to " Uber SE leader " , because both of his traits help a SE : Phi is a no brainer and Cre gives cheaper libraries ( and makes Pericles one of the few leaders that have a speed boost to the UB from the traits ).

    His UU.
    Spoiler :

    Phalanx or The return of vanilla axe .... a axe that does not fear the only counter that axes have ( besides other axes ). Early UU seem like a waste in isolation, but this one does not fear anything until x-bows,phants and maces and can do a nice barb fending job
    His UB.
    Spoiler :

    The Odeon ... a boosted :) colloseum that can hire artists. And ,because Pericles is Creative, it recieves a boost from the trait. Let's see how people are going to leverage the specialist pools.....

    So, here is the settings( from noble save ). Game is Fractal :
    Spoiler :

    And the start:
    Spoiler :

    Nothing special.....A lake, some AH food and gold, but nothing eyelashing. Hopefully there is something hidden in the fogged tiles....

    About saves: As usual, pick the level you prefer in the end of the post. Deity save is in the next post.

    Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

    We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

    Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

    Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

    Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

    Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).

    The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!

    P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Black sheep ( aka deity save ) provided below
     

    Attached Files:

  3. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    :bump: at Monarch.

    It's going to be my third game in parallel with Pericles, but what the...

    ;)
     
  4. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    will give it a try at monarch but i'm no specialist at either SE or isolated starts or cultural. perhaps a late game space for me...
     
  5. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Chieftain

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    Well my latest SE variant with Sitting Bull in LHC 5 is close to going down in flames. In that game I ended up with a cottage economy and my capital being a GP farm.

    For this game I think the start actually favors an CE - that looks like a fantastic capital site for cottaging - but unless there is a lot more food hidden won't be a great specialist farm.

    So maybe the tactic here is to cottage the capital, beeline bureaucracy and run specialists in the other cities - with the cheap libraries it should be fast to get a specialist city up and running.

    I've never seen a barbarian chariot so the UU is no help at all. And being able to hire more artists doesn't exactly fill me with excitement either. I doubt I'll be chasing religions and going for culture.

    Gold in the starting location does interest me a lot though - a happiness resource I can see, excellent commerce and I might just try beelining aesthetics to get the library and building the wonder that gives all the religion civics - early free religion would be good.

    I'll probably try Emperor again -hopefully it will be a better start than last time.
     
  6. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    agreed. i often cottage the capital to maximize beauracracy
     
  7. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Monarch checkpoint 1
    Spoiler :
    After moving the scout and of not finding anything extraordinary, I decided to settle in place.... looks like a good decision ;)
    Spoiler :

    Stone + Phi.... I wonder what I'll do.... :rolleyes:

    Settled 2nd city on the west ( near of newly found horses ) and after "discovering" ( I have to see maps to check isolation... I knew this one ) that our island is divided in two by a mountain.
    Some more time and we have a big pile of rocks in our backyard:
    Spoiler :

    Didn't revolted ASAP to Rep..... was waiting for this:
    Spoiler :



    And of course Rep + Caste:
    Spoiler :

    Shortly after that, founded Corinth ( my third city ). If it had the clams too it would be a crazy GP farm...
    Spoiler :

    My first GP was a GE.... stored him for the TGL
    Spoiler :



    After getting IW ( that revealed iron 1N of capitol :woohoo: ) I decided to give a walk on the barbside of our island. Found a barb city that was razed ( IMHO it will be better 1 E )
    Spoiler :

    Some more turns and got the complete map our our fair share of the world:
    Spoiler :


    Reminders

    The western part of our land is rubbish, except 3-4 sites... I'm not in a hurry to get it ReXed.... Lost Henge and Oracle ( wasn't expecting to get them anyway ) and am doing S. Paya ( will run Pacifism until get problems ). Already got 2 GS ( 1 settled in capitol and another made a academy in capitol too ). Currently I'm in revolt to Confu and near of getting CS ( that will give a enormous boost to my :science:
     
  8. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    here goes... (monarch checkpoint 1)

    Spoiler :


    scout saw nothing interesting so i settled in place. turned out to be a pretty good move, despite lack of food, i fond stone. this made these two pretty attractive:

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    yum. the GW popped me a Great Spy which i used on a GA as i had no need for espionage points. this also allowed me to switch to representation without anarchy. despite 50/50 odds between a spy and an engineer, i got a second spy. this one i settled for +12 espionage but also beakers with representation.

    i founded my second city, sparta, to claim horses, sheep and fish in the north west of the island. lack of food means that i can only run two specialists in most cities, i guess this means a CE. ah well.

    sparta popped two great scientists who created academies in sparta and athens.

    my tech plan was relatively simple. i began building a worker, so i headed for mining and AH. then i went for masonry to allow the wonders and the stone to be accessed. after this i went for the wheel, BW, IW (iron north of Athens, yay), writing maths, currency, CoL, pottery. i really do like the CoL beeline through maths and currency a lot at the moment. anway, this founded me:

    Spoiler :


    well, a religion is always good news. after this i prioritized sailing to finally get me round the mountain followd by MC, Machinery and compass. i am now just a few turns away from optics. i still haven't researched agriculture or mysticism. the joys of creative.

    State of the World: (image heavy)
    Spoiler :

    world map:



    my empire:



    barb side:



    athens:



    sparta:



    argos:



    somehow i managed to lose corinth's.


    P.S. do you want a save?

     
  9. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @ tycoonist

    No need for a save... but you want to post it, you're free to ;)
     
  10. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Monarch checkpoint 2
    Spoiler :
    After getting my map, my focus was to get the most out of the western part of te island ( crazy map.... ). But even before starting, this appeard:
    Spoiler :

    Too bad that the timing was not optimal... I was beelining Education and no way i would get time to get 7 cities with libraries before getting it...

    A little later got this useful tech:
    Spoiler :

    But not revolted ASAP to Bureau... was waiting that my capitol get S. Paya ( for Pacifism ):
    Spoiler :

    The last wonder for a full fledged scientist SE came shortly after ( our dear Parthenon ):
    Spoiler :

    With this and some settled scientists Lib was easy ( and got Astro before finishing my first caravel ... )
    Spoiler :



    And got a nifty bonus from a monastery event ( not that I'm going to try cultural ( my plan is to try to take a full SE into space in isolation ) ):
    Spoiler :
    http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20VI/?action=view&current=Civ4ScreenShot0085.jpg

    I confess that I was so obsessed with the Lib race that i completely forgot the UB ( as far as i recall I haven't done the UU as well ( cooper was in the western side of the island, and why have Phalanx when we can have swords ? ) ). Got construction a little later than I should, but the extra :) most surely will be handy for countering the Emancipation weariness:
    Spoiler :

    Then ( and for my suprise ) I started to find people.... the first one was AC and we would be by best friend until the end of the game. The others followed shorthly ( first 4 are in a big continet... the last two ( Babylon and HRE ) are in a island almost the same size as ours in the south ):
    Spoiler :












    And this is the Foreign advisor in the turn after meeting HRE:
    Spoiler :


    Like I said before, my plans are to push a SE into the the space ( just want to see if it is feasible in isolation ( I personally never tried, but I'm not a SE guy... but I'm really impressed with the strength of the game with a good SE leader in a good enviroment... Let's see if it stands when the cottages turn towns and the emancipation demands more :) ....
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Monarch checkpoint 4
    Spoiler :
    Space Race victory in 1965 ( and not as hard as the last one )

    The path to the stars was quite smooth, actually. I was firmly in control of the tech race since first contact , and in spite of some civs started to gain terrain when the cottages started to kick I never lost control of the situation.

    Got the SoL, biology and beelined for Electricity ( for two reasons : to counter the heavy :mad: that I got from all the civs getting Emancipation with Eiffel and the "Hits" , that are :) boosters for the UB as well ( Got Broadway ( GE power, but had to trade the others with Ramesses ( for uranium after the UN ban of nukes ;) ) and to deny atleast one of the Hits wonders from Ramesses ( the sneaky b*stard was trying a late cultural win, and also beelined UN ( he also tries the same stunt all over again so when I saw him beelining Mass Media, I knew what to do...besides that he was vassal of Cyrus and I was quite confident that I would be the 1st pop contender... better Ramesses than Cyrus ( that hated me because my friendship with AC, his mortal enemy and long time contender for the control of the big continent ( hindy vs budhist .... the religion founders ( Ramesses of hindu and Churchill of Budhism ) vassals of the big dogs of their religions... Charlie and Hammurabi became islamic ) ))....

    Got Internet as well ( beelined it and was able to get some good techs out of it, including Sattelites ) And after some buttering to Hammurabi and AC ( that finished friendly with me ad with a DP ( that explains why nobody tried to stop manu militari my launch, in spite of Cyrus was clearly thinking on it ( hands full and assembling a fleet in the end of the game... ) ) ) I gained control of the UN, a thing that putted my SE safe from UN enforced bottom-of-column civics ( I choosed Diplo victory every time... and was quite surprise that I received more votes that I expected.... but not enough to win :
    Spoiler :
    )
    Some more turns and got my launch ( I love the flying camera.... the last pic reminds me the Eagle departures from the moon ( P.S Why the sky in CivIV is black as tar? I want stars.... [pissed] ) )
    Spoiler :



    Never noticed that the F8 screen showed the SS while travelling, with starts in the behind ( in spite of the scroll speed being completely unrealistical ) ... Like it ;)
    Spoiler :

    And after some nervous turns upgrading and building a credible defense force, my SS got to Alpha centauri.....
    Spoiler :


    As usual my powergraph is a complete joke until I start in army mode after the launch:
    Spoiler :


    My score
    Spoiler :


    And my empire 1 turn before launch
    Spoiler :


    Thoughts....

    I'm really impressed with pericles in SE ( of course that the Mids help, but I also had the Mids in the Sitting Bull game and it was really hard ). The traits both work very well with the needs of a SE ( lots of happines and of research multipliers ) and the UB really helps with that hard punch of the Emancipation weariness ( especially if you get the "hits" ... ). This game got really smooth, and the only serious treath to the game was the UN ( this is Monarch, you can't have them all ), but it was a wise move to let ramesses got it... if I get it my contender would be Cyrus or AC, both big and with vassals...

    A small regard about the Net: the Internet is a very nice wonder for agame like this one, where all the powers were roughly at the same tech level, and not like in my version of LHC BtS V where I got a almost unstopable mogul ( that crumbled over his own weight when was UN forced to leave SP ) and the rest 3 - 4 tech behind...

    @ all

    Like always, I ask for suggestions for next leader. Two philo leaders in a row is quite something, so I propose a Fin leader, like Pacal or Darius, to break the monothony. Both look strong leaders to cope the chalenge.....
     
  12. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Chieftain

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    Ah, Mr. P! Probably one of the most discussed new leaders. I am thinking cultural victory. Well, let's go for Monarch again, what the heck. Checkpoint 1:

    Spoiler :

    Well, I built the Oracle in Athens, the Pyramids and Great Library in Sparta, and the Great Lighthouse and Colossus in Corinth. My placement of Corinth might be controversial, but with Moai Statues and a Forge it's got very good production, and I've settled a Great Artist there.

    I'm desperately chopping in hopes of finishing the Sistine Chapel in Athens. No idea on Monarch how realistically I can get it since there is no marble to help.

    I notice my site for that spot on northern coast (Sparta for me, Corinth for you) is different from you guys... I guess I missed out on 1 extra food by getting the crabs instead of the fish, but my spot also gets the wine (although I put off researching the tech to work this tile for now).

    My overall plan was to get Optics as fast as possible after researching the key early techs. But I already have 2 other cities on the other side of the mountain and without currency or code of laws my research is a bit slow. But the GL and Colosses are really nice for commerce and I'm building Harbors in preparation for foreign trade routes.

    I am keeping a few otherwise useless UUs for fog-busting and avoided any barb cities appearing. I just finished researching optics so I'm getting a couple caravels in the water ASAP. And the best part: Great Merchant waiting in Corinth for a trade mission and the hopes of turning my economy around.

    Oh I forgot to mention I founded Hinduism and running organized religion. This was actually my first tactic: to research down the mysticism line first and that delayed my research elsewhere for a while.

    I welcome any criticisms of my city placements, what do you think?

    the lands:
    Spoiler :


    Athens
    Spoiler :


    Sparta
    Spoiler :


    Corinth
    Spoiler :


     
  13. Lekkric

    Lekkric Chieftain

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    Hi, i just came across the LHC sitting bull game and thought it sounded cool so i decided to try this one (after reading all the spoilers of that game playing it wouldn't be much fun :rolleyes:)

    So i decided right off that i'd play SE, which i prefer anyway, and that i'd probably go free religion and aim for diplo victory. I forgot to take screenshots until the very end of the game so you just get my (vague) recollections of what happened. This is on monarch, btw.


    Spoiler :
    Since i didn't start with myst i decided that i would not take a religion at all in this game because by the time they would be spreading to me i'd just about have free religion. The lost happiness would be replaced somewhat by the odeon and culture slider. I also decided to try a diplo victory, just as a change of pace for me.

    By the time i discovered the other civs i was somehow off to an amazing tech lead (don't ask me how, i thought i would be far behind, especially considering there was basically no fighting going on over there). Churchill was an on-again, off-again vassal of caesar. Eventually my tech lead started to evaporate (i really need to work on my late-game SE) so i built the internet, which helped me keep pace in military techs while i focused on my quest for Alpha Centauri as Plan B.

    Meanwhile, i built the UN and cuddled up to pretty much everyone. By the end of the game i was friendly or pleased with everyone but Charlemagne. Of course it doesn't matter how friendly you are to someone if they're the vassal of your opponent, so Hammi was voting for Cyrus, while everyone else was voting for me and Charlie was being an ass.

    After a few tries and votes on other things (+1 trade route is the only one i remember), I thought I had it. Based on the modifiers in the foreign advisor, everyone liked me more than Cyrus, so they'll vote for me, right? And Hammi was so small i didn't think he would have much to say anyway.

    So...
    Spoiler :

    Gah! :mad:

    2 turns later:
    Spoiler :
    :cry:

    So, close but no cigar.

    This was a lot of fun though, I'm looking forward to the next one already. :goodjob:

    As an aside, i think it's funny that Ramesses voted for me a couple turns before he was going to win. :crazyeye:


    All in all, a lot of fun. I think maybe a financial leader next time? I need to get away from my dependence on philo :(
     
  14. cheffster

    cheffster Deity

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    I'm starting this one tonight, been taking a break from playing games - but it seems interesting, never played with this civ.
     
  15. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    I have started mine on saturday, and though I'm not following checkpoints well (will do it for LHC VII - hopefully :D), here is a small write-up in 1400AD (turn 200):

    Spoiler :


    Basically, I am trying, once again, to get this AP win I miss since my first LHC try with de Gaulle. I'm not in great shape to get the cultural win, but my research is pretty nice.

    Using the stone, I grabbed Pyramids (it would be a shame not doing so) and several others. I have used the creative trait to the best getting very early libraries. My philo use is rather poor on the other hand, though I managed to get some GEng I used to speed the Great Lighthouse (one of the all-time best isolated wonders) and the Taj.
    I'm AP resident and owner also.

    After settling in place, I waited pretty much (until 2000BC) before getting Sparta. I tried to pull Athens to the nice pop level before quickly pumping next cities.
    I explored the side sub-island rather late compared to you.

    As for my world overview - I decided to put my exploration for after Nationalism, meeting no one until now :

    Spoiler :




    It surely is not my strongest game, but I think I'll do the stars this time, should I miss the AP win.

    The AI seems to be behind tech-wise judging by the wonders BIDL.

    PS. Even if it doesn't look alike, I already won lib race and picked Nationalism :) - that's the Taj's GA going on.
     
  16. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Chieftain

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    Lekkric I would have smashed my keyboard against the wall after that game - what a tough break! :p I guess if you had just one more population point in one of your cities, victory would have been yours.

    I am skipping ahead to all final checkpoints to report my finished game in the next post.
     
  17. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Chieftain

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    Monarch checkpoints 2-4.

    Spoiler :

    I capped out at just 6 cities. I decided to go for a single-religion, 6-city cultural victory in true minimalist fashion, and try not to antagonize the rest of the world. After learning of Charlemagne's existence, I knew there would eventually be trouble. He is a real mean guy.

    Well I reached the late 1800s and sure enough he and his vassal (edit: Hammurabi) declare on me and have a sneak attack, cutting my small empire in half. But his force was not big enough and I easily recaptured the two cities in the next few turns.

    Spoiler :


    I took several calculated risks in this game for my singular goal of cultural win, one of them to really neglect my military. After bribing for peace I learned my lesson and built up a force of ironclads and eventually destroyers to protect my coasts. Then it was machine guns and later infantry in the cities. My 3 main cities worked on culture while the other side of the mountain worked on defense during the final push. This is an amusing city build list but you can't say I'm not focused:

    Spoiler :


    Sure enough Charlie came by again with more trouble (2 more times, in fact). I knew this wouldn't be easy:

    Spoiler :


    But I was prepared and he didn't make a dent. Finally, Corinth goes legendary then the very next turn both Athens and Sparta complete the game in 1935:

    Spoiler :


    Another interesting thing, all the naval warfare. I wonder how many enemy units were sitting on those Galleons if I hadn't mowed them down??

    Spoiler :


    Of course I am compared to none other than Charlemagne himself:

    Spoiler :


    My overall strategy for this game:
    - used Great Engineers to rush some key wonders (Taj Mahal, Colossus) and chopped the Sistine Chapel.
    - founded 1 religion only (Hinduism), so I could focus more on things like Odeons and other culture buildings. The Odeon is great, and with a Theater you almost don't need Caste System.
    - however I also did use Caste System the entire game and never switched into Emancipation (happiness was never a problem even with Emancipation anger later on)
    - I used Organized Religion almost the entire game. I switched to Free Religion near the end to avoid further diplomatic problems with other leaders.
    - health was problematic on this map so cities never got too big
    - culture slider jacked up to about 50% in the last 50 turns or so, and research slowed down a lot
    - Great Merchant trade missions kept the economy afloat
    - Mercantilism the whole way, along with Statue of Liberty meant 2 more free specialists generating culture for me
    - I actually didn't have that many Great Artists (maybe about 6?) ... I settled two of them and used the rest for creating great works

    first win on Monarch for me... sometimes it's better to be lonely than lucky, I guess!

     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @ LlamaCat

    Congrats :goodjob: I also had my first Monarch victory in the Lonely Hearts clubs ( the first one, with the Inca dude ).

    @ Lekkric

    My experience with Ramesses instructed me about is late game: he always pursues the late cultural wonders and the UN and tries to win both culturally and by diplo. That's why that, in my game , I GE rushed Broadway ( not my favourite move , but I think it was fundamental ) and built Eiffel ( I knew that he was after them for cultural... the simple fact that he had to build the broadcast towers instead of having them for free delayed him a lot ).

    @ pawelo

    Nice game.... looks that you'll bag this one home ;)
     
  19. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    no big report but i have reached checkpoint 2. i m way ahead in GP and by the time my FP is built i will be well on course for the space race win. looking at early 1900 win here (rough estimation)
     
  20. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    Checkpoint turn 300 (yep, having not respected the true checkpoints, I defined mine :D):

    Spoiler :


    No, no religious victory this time neither :mad:

    It was going so well though. As from 1400AD, anticipating the AI contact I settled some filler cities. I am fed up missing the vote by 2-3 votes, so I decided to take no risks.

    In parallel, I sent first 3 missionaries on caravels to take a look at the known world.
    Several turns later, Augustus, Charlemagne and Ramessess sailed near my landmass. I met Cyrus, Hammy and Chuchill shortly afterwards. Cyrus is the land leader, while Ramessess seems to be the tech leader. I decided to be happy with both, as they seem to appreciate greatly their mutual company (+18 between each other - thanks the BUG).

    Anyway, with my 3 missionaries, it was time to plan well. As the main continent (Cyrus, Ramessess, Augustus and Churchill) was very religious, each one having founded at least one of them, I sent my three guys out there.

    The choice was less obvious, but as Ramesses seemed to have at least 3 religions in each city, I decided to convert him as my last religious victim. I spotted the best candidates (2-size no religion @Cyrus, 7-size one religion @Augustus and a 11-size one religion@Churchill, who managed to get all six cities above 11... ). The second continent, HRE and Babylon, was religion-free, so I tried to not gift them a religion to spread.
    First wave was successful, then up to the second. I sent this one to a 7-size HRE city and a 5-size Babylon, and converted last one on Ramesses shore:



    After that, I was cruising towards Rifling, started to update my defenses (which came just in time too :)) waiting for the vote.

    In 1690AD, Charlemagne DoW on me... :mad: As the vote was approaching, I was sure to win it - none of the AI cities has spread the christianity and my cities were powerful enough to get the vote. And 2 turns before the vote, this guy sends 4 Trebs and 2 Knights on my 3 Rifles!!! :eek: :mad:
    The vote drops by, and the only option is 'Stop the war against Pericles"......

    I will definitely never win by AP :sad:

    Anyway, more and more turns later, the window of opportunity was closed as Ramesses managed to spread the religion to 4 major cities. Still, I lost the vote by 1-2%.

    Heading for space then, with Ramesses having a slight advantage. I will try to keep them busy with Augustus on their continent, while heading for stars. My retard is not big. I'm unhappy having lost the hit musicals and singles to Ramesses, but got SoL and am 7 turns from the Eiffel (still, Ramesses who seems to go wonder crazy, has the Radio and already grabbed R&R and Cristo).

    Overview:



    Too bad for the hits - with Odeon they rock. Also, as isolated I learned to appreciate every happiness ressource available (remembering my late game struggle as Sitting Bull).

    If I can't get the four AIs to war each other, I think about going for Charlemagne and Hammy with Tanks - grab more land at fast pace.

    Will be reporting the next set as soon as time is found to play the game ;)
     

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